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OfflineHamHead
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@koods
    #26804980 - 07/05/20 12:37 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Well, here it is, July 5th.

With surges in cases, one would expect to see bigger numbers than these. Where is this explosion of death?



Remember, it's a weekend, so numbers will be lower than a weekday. Seems people either don't die as much on weekends, or there's shoddy/lazy reporting.

Again, I am having a really hard time understanding why states are closing businesses.

Destroying people's livelihoods in fear over double digits.

Some states see no deaths, yet there is such a push for an untested vaccine.


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Jokeshopbeard said:
I like that I rustled your jimmies though. That brings me joy.
InfiniteDreams said:
You realize emotion doesn't have a place in  mathematics?
koods said:
Asshole.
Jokeshopbeard said:
And also no; science, research, and peer reveiwed bollocks means very little to me.
Such things belong in the realm of intellect, not of reason, wisdom, and common sense.


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Re: @koods [Re: HamHead] * 3
    #26805007 - 07/05/20 12:47 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Texas closed down again because their standard ICU rooms filled up. They were fucking full.

They went to what they call surge capacity, emergency boarding, and estimated that would be tapped out of the numbers didn't slow by next week.



It's pretty fucking bad to have no emergency care rooms available. That means people in car accidents have to wait along side those suffering from covid. That means people who have heart attacks and need emergency surgery have to wait. Don't get ideal recovery conditions.


Might get a recovery room only by booting someone else out.




Remember, this is why things shut down in the first place. To avoid what Texas and other states are seeing.


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Re: @koods [Re: HamHead] * 12
    #26805023 - 07/05/20 12:58 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

You are obsessed with fatalities. As if an ICU full of people with a median age of 45 isn’t a total disaster in itself. The deaths will come. Younger people take longer to die.

What you don’t understand is that the economy is fucked until the virus is beaten back. It won’t take government orders to shut businesses down. People will just refuse to go. This country is so fucking stupid. The rest of the civilized world is getting back normal but because we are populated with people like you were just going to fester for the next six months. You suck.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805060 - 07/05/20 01:19 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Yeah, I remember field hospitals erected and hardly used. I remember New York City forcing nursing homes to take Covid positive paitents to ensure open hospital beds. I remember reports of 9 out of 10 people on ventilators dying. I remember reports of children developing Kawasaki disease. I remember during peak weeks in mid April, no body wearing mask in my local grocery store. I remember a surgeon general holding up a black T-shirt saying "Got Naloxone" and folding it into a make shift mask. I remember George Floyd's death on May 25th, 6 weeks ago and protests erupt across many places around this planet.

If this virus is as deadly as we first had thought when we began implementing public health standards, there would be many, many more deaths than what we are witnessing.

And don't give me any bullshit about mask slowing spreading of viruses. If that were the case, people would be taping their mask to their faces to prevent ANY air from entering.

It's not Ebola.

:waitthatsbad:

Quote:

koods said:
You are obsessed with fatalities. As if an ICU full of people with a median age of 45 isn’t a total disaster in itself. The deaths will come. Younger people take longer to die.

What you don’t understand is that the economy is fucked until the virus is beaten back. It won’t take government orders to shut businesses down. People will just refuse to go. This country is so fucking stupid. The rest of the civilized world is getting back normal but because we are populated with people like you were just going to fester for the next six months. You suck.




That's some logic there, that young people take longer to die.

:brainscream:

Deaths are what matters here, koods.

People are recovering at a much higher rate than when all this first started. It could be argued that our human intervention have caused an excess of deaths because of shut downs and mistreating/mishandling paitents.

And let us not forget.

CHILDREN ARE SPARED!!!


--------------------
Jokeshopbeard said:
I like that I rustled your jimmies though. That brings me joy.
InfiniteDreams said:
You realize emotion doesn't have a place in  mathematics?
koods said:
Asshole.
Jokeshopbeard said:
And also no; science, research, and peer reveiwed bollocks means very little to me.
Such things belong in the realm of intellect, not of reason, wisdom, and common sense.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805069 - 07/05/20 01:25 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I mean... I think people that want to deny that there's a virus altogether is less of a problem than the politicians that wanted to open up for memorial day because the cases just started to fall. :facepalm:
It was going down. It was working.


And americans being americans took lifting restrictions to mean oh the problem is gone. Or we're not supposed to care about it anymore.


Or it's old news. Only new things being hammered into our head by media is scary.

I mean it's been 4 months and my family didn't get sick.



Only now my family is sick. Playing musical chairs in the hospital right now actually because there's way too many people in there.




You're both too obsessed with the death % or number.
The important things are the numbers we don't know. Like how many people die if they can't get an ICU bed. Considering how much better things are looking for people who get critically ill we can surmise that just having a hospital bed does dramatically increase the chance of recovering.

But no one knows.


And no one really cares because idiots on the internet and in seats of power are happy arguing assumed (possibly made up :ohwell:) numbers that don't even begin to paint the whole picture.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: @koods [Re: HamHead] * 4
    #26805072 - 07/05/20 01:27 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I don't understand the point you are arguing for.

Are you mad at the virus? the science? the government? or Koods? or all of the above.


--------------------
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Re: @koods [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26805086 - 07/05/20 01:33 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I think koods is the main thing he's angry with but he's also projecting alot of other frustrations onto it.


Not that I am




:cookiemonster:


Also hamhead you should know some of the things you say conflict with each other. Or your opposition to koods. Not sure which. Maybe both.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: @koods [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26805128 - 07/05/20 01:58 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
I don't understand the point you are arguing for.

Are you mad at the virus? the science? the government? or Koods? or all of the above.




Right.

First, koods has been posting states with increases in covid cases and said that by July 5th, there would be an explosion of deaths. I am arguing that that is not happening, hence the numbers I posted in the OP.

Second, science is largely being ignored. SARS-Cov is not new and treatment has been discovered years ago in hydroxychloroquine used with zinc sulfate. Yet, those faces who have been in our faces while many sit at home, say there are no treatments when there are doctors having success with prophylaxis such as hydroxychloroquine, zinc and azithromycin. Instead, many people were drugged into a coma and had breathing tubes forced down their throat, with doctors scratching their heads wondering why people aren't getting enough oxygen. My argument here is one for another topic all together. PM me.

Third is government's response and continued response, and continued response which I don't see an end to. There will always be viruses to concern our selves with and at first I totally agreed about shutting down because of so many unknowns. Now that those unknowns are now known, it has become clear that Covid 19 is nothing what we were expecting while millions of Americans are still out of work with little pins of light at no end of whatever tunnel they find themselves in.

And to viruses. We carry viruses all the time. Our natural immunity is able to keep a vast majority of them in check. We catch colds and flus every year and many people get over them with little complication while some die. Millions are infected with influenza each year, even with vaccinations and thousands of them die, yet no closing of businesses or mandatory mask policy. Personal health is largely overlooked and brushed aside for pleasure, yet bad science and government has got everyone suffocating on their own expelled gasses for hours on end.


--------------------
Jokeshopbeard said:
I like that I rustled your jimmies though. That brings me joy.
InfiniteDreams said:
You realize emotion doesn't have a place in  mathematics?
koods said:
Asshole.
Jokeshopbeard said:
And also no; science, research, and peer reveiwed bollocks means very little to me.
Such things belong in the realm of intellect, not of reason, wisdom, and common sense.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: @koods [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26805129 - 07/05/20 01:59 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Hamheads logic comes down to this: I don’t want to wear a mask because it’s only deaths that matter, not spending a month in the hospital consuming a million dollars in medical resources and deaths don’t matter because the people who die are old or sickly to begin with.


--------------------
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Onlinekoods
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805136 - 07/05/20 02:06 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Hamhead what do you think would happen if 30% of the population is infected at one time instead of the 2-3% we saw in New York at their peak?


--------------------
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OfflineHamHead
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805144 - 07/05/20 02:09 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Hamheads logic comes down to this: I don’t want to wear a mask because it’s only deaths that matter, not spending a month in the hospital consuming a million dollars in medical resources and deaths don’t matter because the people who die are old or sickly to begin with.




Do you see yourself contradicting yourself here?

And yes, that is how nature works. A body gets old and sickly and is no longer able to fend for its self. This phenomenon is found in many life forms. It's called, aging.

Quote:

koods said:
Hamhead what do you think would happen if 30% of the population is infected at one time instead of the 2-3% we saw in New York at their peak?




What proof do you have that we were not already at 30% infected, considering there are reports of infection being detected in November 2019?


--------------------
Jokeshopbeard said:
I like that I rustled your jimmies though. That brings me joy.
InfiniteDreams said:
You realize emotion doesn't have a place in  mathematics?
koods said:
Asshole.
Jokeshopbeard said:
And also no; science, research, and peer reveiwed bollocks means very little to me.
Such things belong in the realm of intellect, not of reason, wisdom, and common sense.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805146 - 07/05/20 02:11 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Also, hamhead, it’s been four months and you still don’t understand that weekend reporting of deaths does not represent actual deaths. Health departments are not open. Hospital administration offices are closed. Plus it’s a holiday weekend. The cdc doesn’t even update anything on weekends.

Deaths on Friday were close to 700.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805147 - 07/05/20 02:12 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I'd think if Texas hospitals are at capacity, deaths should rise sharply when you can't admit any more sick people and triage has to decide who doesn't get treatment.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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Onlinekoods
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Re: @koods [Re: koods]
    #26805151 - 07/05/20 02:15 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

What proof do you have that we were not already at 30% infected, considering there are reports of infection being detected in November 2019?



It’s hard to take you seriously. We dont really know how many people have been infected in the US becasue we don’t have accurate antibody tests and there doesn’t seem to be any effort to do
More accurate testing but a well controlled Elisa based antibody survey In Spain indicated about 5% of their population had been infected. I would expect the US numbers to be similar.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: @koods [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26805161 - 07/05/20 02:22 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I'm sure other people have tried but OK

Quote:

First, koods has been posting states with increases in covid cases and said that by July 5th, there would be an explosion of deaths. I am arguing that that is not happening, hence the numbers I posted in the OP.




Not even gonna bother with this.

Quote:

Second, science is largely being ignored. SARS-Cov is not new and treatment has been discovered years ago in hydroxychloroquine used with zinc sulfate. Yet, those faces who have been in our faces while many sit at home, say there are no treatments when there are doctors having success with prophylaxis such as hydroxychloroquine, zinc and azithromycin. Instead, many people were drugged into a coma and had breathing tubes forced down their throat, with doctors scratching their heads wondering why people aren't getting enough oxygen. My argument here is one for another topic all together. PM me.




SARS-Cov2 is not the same thing as SARS-Cov. I'm open to the possibility that valid treatments have been withheld due to limited supply and people are being mislead so that there's not riot and such but... doesn't really change much, does it?

Quote:

Third is government's response and continued response, and continued response which I don't see an end to. There will always be viruses to concern our selves with and at first I totally agreed about shutting down because of so many unknowns. Now that those unknowns are now known, it has become clear that Covid 19 is nothing what we were expecting while millions of Americans are still out of work with little pins of light at no end of whatever tunnel they find themselves in.




I didn't really agree with trying to keep our economic system running while shutting down... because it doesn't make sense... at all. Because our economic system doesn't work like that.
But since we did it it was completely and totally asinine to open up early. It's utterly ridiculous to say we have to do this, decimate our economy, to keep people safe, and then not follow through with it.

That means we literally did it for nothing.

And that's the worst thing you can do.

But also something the government is notorious for. Ya know... like that 10 year war thing...


Quote:

And to viruses. We carry viruses all the time. Our natural immunity is able to keep a vast majority of them in check. We catch colds and flus every year and many people get over them with little complication while some die. Millions are infected with influenza each year, even with vaccinations and thousands of them die, yet no closing of businesses or mandatory mask policy. Personal health is largely overlooked and brushed aside for pleasure, yet bad science and government has got everyone suffocating on their own expelled gasses for hours on end.




Science has alot of problems. Common knowledge and tradition of health in this country has major problems. But people have been working in and sweating in and breathing heavily in masks that are more restrictive than the pretend surgical masks people are wearing.

As someone that's used several types of respirator in heavy hot working conditions I can tell you it does get hard to breathe sometimes. And I believe some people with health conditions should not wear masks as the risk there is higher.

But the flimsy little cloth face coverings aren't doing that much. Neither to restrict your breathing or stop you from catching the virus. The main thing they do is catch your spit when you cough. And that tiny little bit does help.



As for the comparison to the flu... it was a mistake of mine to first compare it to swine flu. This is not a flu. In another decade or so after our immune systems have become adjusted to it it might be as bad (or not) as the flu. But I've never seen a flu overwhelm hospitals.

Strain them and push them to their limit? yes. Not overwhelm them.

My point in arguing for the flu was the opposite actually. That people didn't take it seriously enough. That it does kill half a million people every year.


Because people decide that their own agenda is more important than keeping their grandma or my 22 year old cousin from catching it and having complications.


And that shit tilts me. You either care about people or you don't. We've collectively decided that we don't.






So let's just sit back and see then.


--------------------
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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: @koods [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26805171 - 07/05/20 02:27 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

America's economy is going to come out this stunned. The rest of the world is moving on, and the USA is going to be fucked until for at least another 9 months.

Europe might grow more GDP than the USA for the first time in decades.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: @koods [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26805184 - 07/05/20 02:37 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)



--------------------
Jokeshopbeard said:
I like that I rustled your jimmies though. That brings me joy.
InfiniteDreams said:
You realize emotion doesn't have a place in  mathematics?
koods said:
Asshole.
Jokeshopbeard said:
And also no; science, research, and peer reveiwed bollocks means very little to me.
Such things belong in the realm of intellect, not of reason, wisdom, and common sense.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: @koods [Re: HamHead]
    #26805197 - 07/05/20 02:42 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I don't know enough about epidemiology to say. But from the little I do know I gather it depends on how it mutates.

But yeah what you're citing is what I'd call strain. Pushing it to its limits. Not overwhelming.


And I suppose one could argue that we're not yet to the point of overwhelm since people are still finding beds, even if in overflow, and medical care, even if from exhausted and overworked medical staff. But from what I'm seeing I think we're right on the edge.


--------------------
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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: @koods [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26805202 - 07/05/20 02:43 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
America's economy is going to come out this stunned. The rest of the world is moving on, and the USA is going to be fucked until for at least another 9 months.

Europe might grow more GDP than the USA for the first time in decades.





America was bound to lose its super power status sooner or later. It does seem like the virus and our bungling of it will hasten that.


--------------------
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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: @koods [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26805208 - 07/05/20 02:46 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
America was bound to lose its super power status sooner or later.



I wouldn’t say it was entirely unavoidable...


--------------------
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