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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
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Hormones 1
#26804640 - 07/05/20 05:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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how do you feel about hormone treatments more generally?
is this something that should be limited entirely to individuals prescribed by a doctor or should the potential for imbalances be allowed to be decided upon by patients?
this has come up in the trans community a lot in places where trans people cannot get authorizations from doctors they will start taking grey market Estrogen or Testosterone without confirmation of appropriateness for their physical condition
this also shows up among body builders who frequently chug steroids often against medical advice because it jacks them up
is this something that should be controlled and authorized by doctors only or should all adults be free to select whatever hormones they feel are appropriate to them and to consider their use to be as valid as that provided by doctors
this has actually been an extra issue for me since my pre-teens where eating a bunch of McDonalds seemingly, according to the doctor, was giving me growth spurt after growth spurt due to the beef being injected with hormones
personally think adherance should be limited to people with doctors prescriptions in the trans community this earns me the transphobic name of transmedicalist or TRUSCUM (trans that does not support all trans)
but have seen a lot of issues where people abuse testosterone without authorization and have their personality all fucked up with a bunch of anger issues when this happens to trans men that self-dose, the community recognizes it as being too drawn in by toxic masculinity
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



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--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
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In all seriousness, I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. /thread
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
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Quote:
Shiithead said:

Trans men on proper regimens are kings tho personally look forward to more of them being in positions of popularity or power and setting positive examples for others to follow
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brk
Unless...



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 10,210
Loc: SA
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I agree with your point of view, and think it's ridiculous that you could be labelled as anti-trans for it.
Being against the unregulated use of hormones as a means to transition is completely different from being against transitioning.
For example, I think trans people have the right to surgery, should they choose too take that path. I don't however, think it should be performed by an unlicensed surgeon because that person has no other means of achieving the goal.
-------------------- "To the young it gives a vision of the dead and gone. While the old receive a passion to survive, and the pattern picks the pockets of the palindrome, before the oscillating rhythm takes to flight..." - Rishloo

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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Shiithead said: In all seriousness, I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. /thread
am inclined to agree, and fully agreed before going in for my HRT assessment but on my first appointment, ended up getting delayed in starting to make sure my body was not at risk of developing a tumour on my brain by taking the meds
so have become more leary about trans women starting HRT programs without authorization not a disbelief that they should have the right to make that choice but a concern that without medical assessment they could seriously harm themselves
do not believe this issue to actually exist with use of psychedelics it is best if a new tripper can have a reliable sitter who respects set and setting but there is not real medical risk involved with the use
suppose part of my view is also informed by the processes being funded by public health care in Canada if someone misjudged and has to go off hormones and in for MRIs and surgeries that is a pretty increased load on the medical system, that also impacts the rate of availability of MRI and surgeries for other conditions
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Hormones [Re: brk]
#26804667 - 07/05/20 06:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
brk said: I agree with your point of view, and think it's ridiculous that you could be labelled as anti-trans for it.
Being against the unregulated use of hormones as a means to transition is completely different from being against transitioning.
For example, I think trans people have the right to surgery, should they choose too take that path. I don't however, think it should be performed by an unlicensed surgeon because that person has no other means of achieving the goal.
I think that the unlicensed surgeon comparison is a real valuable one that had not crossed my mind previously thank you so much for bringing that up 
do not really mind that there is a section of the trans community that reacts so vehemently against my positions as also recognize my own positions to be pro-trans in terms of youth care do not support HRT or surgery for youths except in extreme cases where medical assessment indicates them as necessary but also think that society needs to sort of de-gender a lot of things so that youths are not feeling pressured to take hormones to have their body in line with their interests to begin with and think that this would also reduce the risk of individuals who end up seeking to detransition if they find it was not the course of action for them
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
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My only real concern is responsibility for choosing to use hormones whether prescribed or not. Can't really be responsible though if you trying to change biology so drastically. Just my 2 cents.
But it's not my body so I don't care really. I wouldn't do it to my body tho. I'd find another way to stimulate hormone production naturally though if someone wanted to try them.
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Shiithead said: I'd find another way to stimulate hormone production naturally though if someone wanted to try them.
the local Kurger Bing could help you out 


the phytoestrogens in soy products are not actually bioavailable in a way that could cause such changes, just tranny humour
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polaritymind
relaxed attention


Registered: 10/10/16
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Quote:
do not believe this issue to actually exist with use of psychedelics it is best if a new tripper can have a reliable sitter who respects set and setting but there is not real medical risk involved with the use
I' agree for most healthy people, but there is always the risk with people who have a latent psychosis or are otherwise on the border of mental ilness, line people with a lot of repressed trauma or similar, that a breakthrough of topics happens unannounced and unintendedly. If the person interpets this as negative sideffects and isnt willing to work through it (rejects the experience, doesnt go with it) they can well get stuck in the terrain of the activated trauma, persisting even after the trip. This is straight from Stanislv Grof reports of his work with LSD therapy in the 60s.
So in short, the risk is low but there is acpuple of percent of risk, I do think.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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I thought it was funny because I think it's true. You are what you eat.
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
polaritymind said:
Quote:
do not believe this issue to actually exist with use of psychedelics it is best if a new tripper can have a reliable sitter who respects set and setting but there is not real medical risk involved with the use
I' agree for most healthy people, but there is always the risk with people who have a latent psychosis or are otherwise on the border of mental ilness, line people with a lot of repressed trauma or similar, that a breakthrough of topics happens unannounced and unintendedly. If the person interpets this as negative sideffects and isnt willing to work through it (rejects the experience, doesnt go with it) they can well get stuck in the terrain of the activated trauma, persisting even after the trip. This is straight from Stanislv Grof reports of his work with LSD therapy in the 60s.
So in short, the risk is low but there is acpuple of percent of risk, I do think.
Think this is a reasonable and responsible account that my input did not apply to, thank you for calling attention to it
in a way, there is typically a sort of medicalisation around such individuals tho it is not made available as common knowledge but, for instance, if someone is in the Shroomery community and has schizophrenia other members will advise against continued psychedelic use
that sort of mentality is not really "there yet" in the trans community which, likely, plays into people labeling me as anti-trans for wanting to call attention to it since the sentiment is typically not spoken to individuals who say they are on grey market hormones
in that way, the Psychedelic Community is arguably more advanced in terms of community safety
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Eat ribs, chicken, and steak everymeal and tell me you don't feel altered.
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
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Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
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Quote:
morrowasted said: "endocrinologist and hospice care doctor". Translation: testosterone and opioid dealer.
(like tv personalities, sham endocrinologists and pain management docs)
Like law and law enforcement, the medical profession has a long history of attracting charlatans and crooks. It has been that way since the beginning of medicine.
Looks like endocrinologist are "shams" and opioid dealers?
I have heard great things about horomone therapy, specifically from a Joe Rogan episode where a vet was on sharing his story. I'll find it here quick for ya.
Yeah, here ya go!
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
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Re: Hormones [Re: HamHead]
#26804757 - 07/05/20 07:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: "endocrinologist and hospice care doctor". Translation: testosterone and opioid dealer.
(like tv personalities, sham endocrinologists and pain management docs)
Like law and law enforcement, the medical profession has a long history of attracting charlatans and crooks. It has been that way since the beginning of medicine.
Looks like endocrinologist are "shams" and opioid dealers?
I have heard great things about horomone therapy, specifically from a Joe Rogan episode where a vet was on sharing his story. I'll find it here quick for ya.
Yeah, here ya go!
an hour and a half of Joe Rogan and his friends blathering about opinions that confirm his biases about the world
could you at least provide quotations of the positions you found so interesting or something from the JRE clips channel that makes it more watchable?
the idea of testosterone treatment being a sham is of particular interest tho but that was not your position and does not seem to be quoted from within this thread so am unable to pursue for further information at this time
my endocrinologist does no prescribe opiods, but am in Canada my family doctor tried getting me on them, but shot him down and told him to refer me to a cannabis doctor before resorting to that
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Right, can't be bothered to watch anything longer than a few minutes worth of info.
It's a great story, Joe doesn't open his meat vacuum much but to ask some questions.
Talks about TBI and how soldiers are developing brain injuries from blast shockwaves.

Oh well. There's stories about horses too.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Im all for it for sure, the underground market and the doctor-prescribed market. I mean, why not?
The only kind conversial issue for me is sports. Like the episode of South Park where Randy Savage becomes a "woman" but is obviously a macho-male then competes in women sports as a woman. Totally unfair in my opinion since he is a super-macho male and has the obvious physical advantage for weightlifting and other strenght sports.
But other than the sports competition aspect, i have no issue with grey/black/regular market hormones. Dose away!
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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Asante
Mage


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Here in Holland, anabolic steroids and other androgens, as well as estrogens and the like fall under the "Medicines Law" which is distinct from the narcotics law.
Its allowed for adults in Holland to order hormones and use them, as long as it doesn't interfere with competition sports.
If you are a DIY bodybuilder doing it for you you can roid up till you have pimples on your bald head and thats considered fine, though your doctor might disagree.
You can take charge of your sex change.
Sex hormones are considered "lifestyle choices", regardless which gender you wish to augment.
Not many Dutch know this but just like with poppers, there are Dutch online stores that sell hormones legally, domestically, including non-pharmacopeia drugs like dianabol and SARMS.
You can't buy DMAA (glorified caffeine) but you CAN buy Sustanon. Strange folks, those Dutchies.
I'm 100% against minors using any sex hormones without prescription and close supervision. Minors get lasting developmental changes from androgens or estrogens that sometimes seem counterintuitive.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#26805425 - 07/05/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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anyone who wants them should be able to get them as long as they are aware of the health consequences of doing so, whether it be straight men wanting to take testosterone to get more manly or people born with balls who wish they hand't been
people who want them and can't get them from the doctor will find a way to get them elsewhere, and whoever sells it to them is far less likely to give them education about how to go about it in a way that will reduce potential harm
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Harm reducto 101
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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This is a variation of the question of what to do about drugs more generally.
I think people shouldn't be prevented from getting what they want, but they should have to take training in it and get some kind of license (to prove that they went through the training), and after that they should only be allowed to get so much at a time. Their use might be monitored by their doctor, but their doctor shouldn't have the ability to say no, only to monitor their use and make suggestions and stuff like that.
The amount available to purchase at a time might be based on weight in much the same way that scientifically the dose of a drug is based on a person's weight. In this way, for something like steroids or estrogen you could appropriately dose the person without going overboard. There might even be some kind of application for an exception to the dosage rule, or maybe if you go through a doctor and get a prescription then you could get an exception, etc.
In teenagers, it should probably require a prescription just because the body is still developing and lots of stuff that's safe as an adult is dangerous to a developing child.
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bendychicken
Stranger



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Hormones are serious business. That said it should be legal just like other drugs. To OP, you know if you take a bunch of estrogen it drastically increases your risk of prostate cancer right?
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress



Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Hormone Therapy has saved my life to be honest.
-------------------- The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable Is the violence that we do to ourselves When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
 
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress



Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Quote:
bendychicken said: Hormones are serious business. That said it should be legal just like other drugs. To OP, you know if you take a bunch of estrogen it drastically increases your risk of prostate cancer right?
It's literally at no higher of an average % than if your not on hormones. Its all about ROA and how well you take care of your body, just like normal. Breathing gives you fucking cancer.
-------------------- The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable Is the violence that we do to ourselves When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
 
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Quote:
Demonic_Chronic said:
Quote:
bendychicken said: Hormones are serious business. That said it should be legal just like other drugs. To OP, you know if you take a bunch of estrogen it drastically increases your risk of prostate cancer right?
It's literally at no higher of an average % than if your not on hormones. Its all about ROA and how well you take care of your body, just like normal. Breathing gives you fucking cancer.
ROA is a big deal IMO, poor people frequently cant afford to get hormone therapy in safer formulations, in my country anyway
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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I weigh 375 lbs.
I'm a mule pulling a very heavy cart.
Very small, infrequent doses of anabolic steroids help me on my days of most strenuous exercise and if I get an injury, pain and healing time gets cut in half.
It strengthens my muscles, ligaments, tendons, bones, connective tissues, augments regeneration of cartilage and to some degree improves my lean mass to fat ratio.
I am able to exercise harder, be less injury prone and if injured, recover quicker and better.
I'd be a fool not to take an occasional 5mg of Metandienone in my situation.
What a bodybuilder takes in one day would last me a month.

In parts of asia, where they are freely available, steroids are used by construction workers and other males who bear heavy burdens.
Its rational. It enables bodies to give it more, for people who need to give it more.
For this reason also doctors prescribe them to severe burn victims and people who have seriously weakened because of AIDS, cancer or other wasting diseases.
Hooray! For males there is a class of drugs that, if rightly used, improves their bodies. Why not use it on a far wider scale than now?
If you're an adult guy, and you sprained your ankle badly, why not a week of low dose anabolic steroid? The pain decreases and healing increases. Why prescribe ibuprofen that just lessens pain and helps swelling some?
Microdosing the "Breakfast of Champions"
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante] 1
#26806078 - 07/06/20 12:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd really like to use steroids from rolling ankle so many times. It's getting pretty loose.
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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bendychicken
Stranger



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" they are freely available, steroids are used by construction workers and other males who bear heavy burdens."
You're talking to an example of said people now  I do get side effects that have to be managed and get blood tests regularly to make sure nothing is getting out of wack. I recently had to take a break because my blood pressure was shooting up.
High estrogen levels do substantially increase your risk of prostate cancer. If you believe estrogen is keeping you from killing yourself then obviously that's the lessor of 2 evils. The studies I've seen don't seem to indicate a change in the astronomically high suicide rates in trans people on HRT vs those not on HRT. On the other hand, one of the reasons I started HRT was low estrogen(for a man) because I felt like shit and was borderline suicidal. Having normal male estrogen levels made huge difference for me. So I'm willing to accept the possibility that if trans women actually do have a female brain (though I'm not sold on that yet) taking estrogen makes them feel better. You do you ma'am.
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blewmeanie



Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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I was on TRT for a few years. In the end it was more of a hassle than it was worth for me. I dropped the Dr after a while due to the endless tests, and constantly getting shuffled from one Dr. to another.
If I could have bought pharmaceutical testosterone without having to get it shipped in sketchy packages from China, I would have kept using it. I only saw benefits. They use too much preservative in what I was buying though, and I was worried about developing scar tissue in my thigh, so I cycled off relatively easily with (iirc) a month or so of Clomid and nolvadex.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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I don't know. Hormones are powerful things and can do all sorts of fucked up shit(ooorrr, make you feel normal when all is right.). It's worth mentioning now that I have zero experience with hormones/steroids/etc.(edit; oh i guess i am on hormonal birth control, disregard lol. i'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't seem to have a tough time, it can fuck shit up for certain people for sure)
On one hand I'd like to just see easier medical access for trans people, but I get that it's a bit of a pipe dream for any significant minority in the current climate, and it's a work in progress. Which doesn't help people who are suffering now - and it doesn't address people who are using them for performance enhancement/fitness.
Ultimately my concern comes down to consumer safety and harm reduction. People are gonna get their hands on this stuff one way or another, especially for someone who needs it to feel and function normally, regardless. I certainly don't feel it should be criminalized, and like Blind Ass mentioned upthread, harm reduction and education, and appropriate caution is key. I certainly don't think it should be criminalized. But some consumer minded safety measures need to be put in place - stuff that doesn't just push it all to the black market and make it even more unsafe to begin with, which is a tricky dance.
I'd like to see some more medical professions focused on harm reduction emerging tbh. I think they're sorely needed. Not doctors, but qualified, nonjudgemental, medical professionals who've been through the appropriate training who act as a resource for people with questions. Even just as a sector of the emerging telehealth field(which I know here in the states, has become the defacto system now for everyone who doesn't absolutely need in-patient services).
Edited by pirate-blues (07/06/20 01:10 PM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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I'm curious about the mood effects of estrogen. I am well aware of those of androgens, but curious about those of the flip side.
Will addition of estrogen turn a cis-male into a sweetie or a bitch?
I was curious enough to order some 
Sex changes come over time, gradually, but steroidal mood effects are mostly near immediate.
A single dose wont induce breast formation 
You know you're a druggie when.. you order some estrogen to get in touch with your feminine side 
It'll probably turn me into a complete bitch
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#26806724 - 07/06/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's if you are in a place that makes it illegal, or places ridiculous obstacles to obtain legal hormones, people will go to the black market. Problem with that, is due to the nature of how a single hormone (especially upstream hormones like testosterone and estrogen) effect the body, pretty regular blood work is required to monitor the down stream effects.
TL;DR If people can't get legally they'll get illegally. Hormones have large effects, careful blood concentration monitoring is warranted, getting it legit is best.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#26806734 - 07/06/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I'm curious about the mood effects of estrogen. I am well aware of those of androgens, but curious about those of the flip side.
Will addition of estrogen turn a cis-male into a sweetie or a bitch?
I was curious enough to order some 
Sex changes come over time, gradually, but steroidal mood effects are mostly near immediate.
A single dose wont induce breast formation 
You know you're a druggie when.. you order some estrogen to get in touch with your feminine side 
It'll probably turn me into a complete bitch 
Not a personal attack, I've seen you mention that you are on the heavier side of things, which means your estrogen levels are probably out of range for male (high side) as fat increases estrogen production. (sorry if I made incorrect assumptions in this)
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Hormones [Re: Ice9]
#26806741 - 07/06/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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As I am one of The Others, A Freak Among Freaks, or as a trans woman, I say let people "fuck them selves up" with hormones This issue is purely a heartstring issue people are actually okay with a certain % of "necessary harm" cars, surgery deaths, this kind of argument appeals to the people scared of flying when yes HUNDREDS DIE from planecrashes!!! (are hundreds per year perma fucked from HRT?) is this even an issue? Not really, IMO. Let the small percentage of fuckers fuck up This kind of issue results in unnecessary regulation by people who have no clout in this walk of life Why do we care so much about a small percentage of "mistakes" in one issue but not others? THOSE PESKY EMOTIONS: To the people that made mistakes with hormones: Sorry, but thats life. Same to the people who wanted to get on a plane. But like planes, a lot of this shit is reasoned out to be generally safe for a large %. sometimes the cure to a mistake is to TOUGHEN UP BUTTERCUP and dont ruin the fun for everyone else.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Hormones [Re: Ice9]
#26806751 - 07/06/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said:
Quote:
Asante said: I'm curious about the mood effects of estrogen. I am well aware of those of androgens, but curious about those of the flip side.
Will addition of estrogen turn a cis-male into a sweetie or a bitch?
I was curious enough to order some 
Sex changes come over time, gradually, but steroidal mood effects are mostly near immediate.
A single dose wont induce breast formation 
You know you're a druggie when.. you order some estrogen to get in touch with your feminine side 
It'll probably turn me into a complete bitch 
Not a personal attack, I've seen you mention that you are on the heavier side of things, which means your estrogen levels are probably out of range for male (high side) as fat increases estrogen production. (sorry if I made incorrect assumptions in this)
No thats true and probably a factor in why I'm so damn nice but I'd like to experience the effect of a sudden estrogen spike, just as I know the effect of a sudden testosterone spike.
Fat cells aromatize testosterone to estrogen, thats true!
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#26806907 - 07/06/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Endocrinology is one of the most complex and least understood medical science there is next to neurology.
There's 50 hormones in the human body. Not 2 or 3. And they effect one another. For example estrogen and testosterone can stimulate cortisol production.
Nutrition and even your thoughts effect hormones as well.
Add on top of that the long neglect of science in as far as women's reproductive medicine and the newness of significant popultions of people on HRT and... there's alot of risk and alot of it can't even be named.
IME there's also alot of ignorance in your average doctor. My doctors couldn't understand why hormonal birth control made me batshit insane.
And there's also the interest fact that most women are admitted to mental hospitals after a breakdown when they are in the PMS phase of the hormonal cycle (yeah guys it's not actually made up.)
Are those cycles necessary for the health of an individual? Or are they counterproductive? Are we hurting people by trying to blunt them or not taking them into account when they're on HRT.
We don't know. There's so much we don't know.
PS high estrogen made me a psychotic bitch so don't think we can make meatheads chill out with that alone.
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Free time is the only time
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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And Cause and effect between hormones and the body isn’t all linear & clean or clear in many regards- the effects branch and loop back on other causes leading to more effects and things of that nature over and over, etc etc. Chemistry is wild, nature’s magic.
Something akin to hysteresis going on with all that...
*the phenomenon in which the value of a physical property lags behind changes in the effect causing it, as for instance when magnetic induction lags behind the magnetizing force.
And then some...
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Yep. Not saying it's bad, just that people should be aware that they're guinea pigs.
And no one can ever say for sure how a particular drug is going to interact with their own unique body chemistry. That goes for well studied drugs too.
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Free time is the only time
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bendychicken
Stranger



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Re: Hormones [Re: Ice9] 1
#26807808 - 07/06/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Will addition of estrogen turn a cis-male into a sweetie or a bitch?" Both, in the space of an hour or 2. E2 causes mood swings.
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bendychicken
Stranger



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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840927/
However, there is a concern over chronic use of finasteride and development of prostate cancer. Through its effect on hormonal (estrogens vs. androgens) balance and immune surveillance of tumor cells, finasteride increases the risk of prostate cancer. In many studies it has been shown that the prostatic hyperplasia and cancer develop frequently in the hormonal milieu of estrogen excess over androgens. This hormonal imbalance is normally seen in aging males. Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess. The expression of aromatase is also up-regulated in prostatic hyperplasia and cancer."
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ichugwindex
Dex



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Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
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In America they offer SEVERAL grand per testicle if you are willing to donate. Anything in this country costs easily too much medically though so I'd blow through it so fast on my mandatory government test replacement that it wouldn't be worth it
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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*counts balls*
🤔
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 minutes, 23 seconds
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Quote:
bendychicken said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840927/
However, there is a concern over chronic use of finasteride and development of prostate cancer. Through its effect on hormonal (estrogens vs. androgens) balance and immune surveillance of tumor cells, finasteride increases the risk of prostate cancer. In many studies it has been shown that the prostatic hyperplasia and cancer develop frequently in the hormonal milieu of estrogen excess over androgens. This hormonal imbalance is normally seen in aging males. Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess. The expression of aromatase is also up-regulated in prostatic hyperplasia and cancer."
I take finasteride since like september 2019
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Hormones [Re: gopher]
#26844801 - 07/25/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I kinda wish I was in Holland then because I am just recently getting back into "enhanced" weightlifting and ordering SARMs is so much more trouble than it used to be. I can find some good sources but all the good ones have bank merchants that are in Africa so idk, kinda weary about that I guess. And I don't want to take steroids again, expensive and worrying about shutdown isnt worth it to me anymore.
I was just seeing if anyone has mentioned anything about them here because I just decided to just take the risk and ordered some RAD 140 and Ostarine. Didn't expect to really see anything about SARMs here.
But to the point, yes I think people should be able to treat themselves with hormones. But it would be much smarter to have a doctor monitor it since it's not as simple as just "take estrogen, turn into woman" there's so many side effects that come with unsupervised high dosing or prolonged use of hormones.
Side story, I knew this really attractive girl some years back that was into weightlifting, but she wasn't bulky, just had that nice built physique for a woman but it ended up not being enough for her so she got into steroids, the heavy ones too not just basic testosterone, and she got to the point where you could see her clit sort of popping through her underwear if it was tight enough. It was so awkward because we had a thing going on but after I saw her again over a year later I just had to run from that
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Edited by Eminence (07/25/20 03:25 PM)
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bendychicken
Stranger



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Re: Hormones [Re: gopher]
#27023883 - 11/05/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Get your blood hormone levels checked. I couldn't take it. Crashed my DHT levels and destroyed my sex drive. Also made my skin dry and gave me sensitive nipples(raised estrogen levels). Not worth it. Luckily everything leveled out after quitting and taking some HCG to "reset" my hormones. Something like 2-5% of people get permanant endocrine system damage from finasteride. Do an internet search on "post finasteride syndrome"
Quote:
gopher said:
Quote:
bendychicken said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840927/
However, there is a concern over chronic use of finasteride and development of prostate cancer. Through its effect on hormonal (estrogens vs. androgens) balance and immune surveillance of tumor cells, finasteride increases the risk of prostate cancer. In many studies it has been shown that the prostatic hyperplasia and cancer develop frequently in the hormonal milieu of estrogen excess over androgens. This hormonal imbalance is normally seen in aging males. Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess. The expression of aromatase is also up-regulated in prostatic hyperplasia and cancer."
I take finasteride since like september 2019
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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In South East Asia its part of the work ethic: use Yaba (meth pills) or steroids if you have a physical profession so you can give it 120%.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#27024502 - 11/06/20 06:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Be careful taking estrogen with your medical conditions... increases stroke risk
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire



Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 minutes, 23 seconds
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Quote:
bendychicken said: Get your blood hormone levels checked. I couldn't take it. Crashed my DHT levels and destroyed my sex drive. Also made my skin dry and gave me sensitive nipples(raised estrogen levels). Not worth it. Luckily everything leveled out after quitting and taking some HCG to "reset" my hormones. Something like 2-5% of people get permanant endocrine system damage from finasteride. Do an internet search on "post finasteride syndrome"
Quote:
gopher said:
Quote:
bendychicken said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840927/
However, there is a concern over chronic use of finasteride and development of prostate cancer. Through its effect on hormonal (estrogens vs. androgens) balance and immune surveillance of tumor cells, finasteride increases the risk of prostate cancer. In many studies it has been shown that the prostatic hyperplasia and cancer develop frequently in the hormonal milieu of estrogen excess over androgens. This hormonal imbalance is normally seen in aging males. Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess. The expression of aromatase is also up-regulated in prostatic hyperplasia and cancer."
I take finasteride since like september 2019
im trying to crash my DHT levels, they only side effect I get is retrograde ejaculation, and it goes away if I forget to take the fin one day
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Be careful taking estrogen with your medical conditions... increases stroke risk
You misread, estrogen is what my fat cells make of testosterone due to their inherent aromatase production.
I avoid using androgens as much as possible but using estrogen would not be beneficial
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Hormones [Re: gopher]
#27024542 - 11/06/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
gopher said:
Quote:
bendychicken said: Get your blood hormone levels checked. I couldn't take it. Crashed my DHT levels and destroyed my sex drive. Also made my skin dry and gave me sensitive nipples(raised estrogen levels). Not worth it. Luckily everything leveled out after quitting and taking some HCG to "reset" my hormones. Something like 2-5% of people get permanant endocrine system damage from finasteride. Do an internet search on "post finasteride syndrome"
Quote:
gopher said:
Quote:
bendychicken said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840927/
However, there is a concern over chronic use of finasteride and development of prostate cancer. Through its effect on hormonal (estrogens vs. androgens) balance and immune surveillance of tumor cells, finasteride increases the risk of prostate cancer. In many studies it has been shown that the prostatic hyperplasia and cancer develop frequently in the hormonal milieu of estrogen excess over androgens. This hormonal imbalance is normally seen in aging males. Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess. The expression of aromatase is also up-regulated in prostatic hyperplasia and cancer."
I take finasteride since like september 2019
im trying to crash my DHT levels, they only side effect I get is retrograde ejaculation, and it goes away if I forget to take the fin one day
May I ask why you use finasteride and want to crash your DHT?
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire



Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 minutes, 23 seconds
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Re: Hormones [Re: Asante]
#27024549 - 11/06/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I take it for hair loss, some rare people get regrowth, but its just held my hair stable, technically it only slows loss, before I started taking it there was a crazy amount of hair on the floor of the shower after I took one, now theres none, if you get a hair transplant the doctors make you sign a form promising you will take finasteride, other wise youll just be back as the hairs still fall out behind the transplanted hairs, the dermatologist wanted me to commit to taking rogain too, but Im afraid to because its a life long commitment to using it twice a day
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Hormones [Re: gopher]
#27024557 - 11/06/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do you realize that dihydrotestosterone is like 10x as strong an androgen as testosterone, so that defacto you sort of castrated yourself?
Lack of androgens in males leads to weight gain, water retention, loss of muscle and bone mass, weakening of tissue regeneration and a slip n slide into the pigsty of beta cuckery? 
Seriously, having lower androgens makes you less secure and decisive as a male and less ablebodied.
When a doctor put my old father on spironolactone I asked the doctor politely to consider switching him to epleneron, a new drug with the sam, a tad stronger, indicated action, but without the testosterone blocking effects.
MtF transgenders use spironolactone, thats no drug to give to an obese 75yo whos trying to live an active lifestyle. He looked into it and with my fathers consent switched the meds, my dad was super proud of his son to have outdone a specialist on the fly, and, getting him a med that he feels much better on.
You do diets - this is incompatible with blocking your androgens. It will make you estrogen dominant and that means holding water and packing on pounds.
Maybe your unusual and irregular nutrition patterns have more to do with your hairloss, I could be wrong of course.
Eminence and I readily disagree but we know he konws his shit on hormones, lets see how he feels about you in your situation using a DHT blocker.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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