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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #26797688 - 07/01/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'll get called a racist for saying the protests are ridiculous. My forklift driver is black.


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Psion]
    #26797689 - 07/01/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psion said:
my coworker's roommate had covid, so he had to stay away from work for a couple weeks (and isolate from his roommate and other people) until he tested negative to make sure it didn't jump to him. thankfully it hadn't.

that said, the upper peninsula has only had a very small handful of cases compared to the rest of michigan... but now the warm season has started, i fear this won't stay the case because i'm seeing a lot of those idiots showing up at our store and they are NOT wearing masks like most of the natives are. =.=




originally from the upper troll area, local friends saying massive outbreak coming in traverse city as well as mackinaw island with recent boating celebrations. continue to see people act like it isnt real so good luck up there.


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OnlineIce9
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26797691 - 07/01/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
The virus doesnt have to infect organ tissues other than the lungs itself for the inflammation to become systemic.

I really dont feel like explaining it again but this doctor does a very good job of explaining how the pneumonia progresses to SIRS and then to MSOF. It really isnt that unique with respect to other viral pnas in terms of disease progression



Skip to 17 minutes or so

Or here. I wrote it out in this post a couple months back

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26603812#26603812


Think some laypeople are probably hearing that there is cardiomyopathy and thinking it is due to direct ace2 binding of the virus to the cardiac muscle tissue but it probably isnt. You can see cardiomyopathy with any prolonged sirs as the SVR decreases. The CO looks normal but it isnt sufficient to compensate for the change in SVR. You can give people intropes and volume replacement to bump up the CO but you have to be careful because the fluids can exacerbate the pulm edema and the inotropes increase cardiac o2 demand which can lead to ischemia since they are satting low already and especially if there ischemic DIC which is not uncommon with covid19






Good video, but it is based on old information.  This is one way covid19 impacts the body systemically but according to Johns Hopkins hospital, the virus itself is in cases directly infecting the organs and damaging.  Another way is blood clots.  This is a highly unusal virus doing stuff we haven't really seen. You seem quite knowledgeable about this, I would look into it more.  Also I enjoyed the video.  (Total side note, I work at a contract pharm that specializes in oligos, literally 5 of my co-workers are are Virologists.) Its interesting getting their take, they initially thought the systemic damage was due to cytokine storms, or lack of oxygen the reperfusion injury, but as new info has come out they have definitely revised their opinion.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Ice9]
    #26797698 - 07/01/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That’s news to me. I’ll check it out :thumbup:


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OnlineIce9
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26797701 - 07/01/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
I'll get called a racist for saying the protests are ridiculous. My forklift driver is black.





Taken out of context that was pretty funny though, sorry I assumed the worst, you know the  old saying about assume.  I disagree on the protests being ridiculous though.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Ice9]
    #26797731 - 07/01/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well it certainly may turn out to be the case that the virus damages some peoples kidneys by entering the kidneys themselves. We certainly have more to learn. The article you posted also cites the other well known mechanisms and in terms of treatment the fact that that all of those mechanisms can lead to kidney failure whether or not it turns out to be the case that the virus directly causes significant damage to them is the basis for the treatments being given. Given that there doesnt seem to be a significant outcome difference in patients taking ARBs it still seems likely to me that we are looking at prerenal failure/perfusion injury related to low sat, vasodilation, and clotting disorders


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Phase 2 [Re: koods]
    #26797733 - 07/01/20 08:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
50,701 new cases in the US today

The Netherlands has 50,000 cases in total




American don fucked up AGAIN. Will people ever learn to avoid the Coronavirus.... :nonono:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Phase 2 [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26797736 - 07/01/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Not if they think it’s make believe fake news or a hoax.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26797748 - 07/01/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Hope it does work, not gonna bet on it


I am not convinced any of the treatments do a whole lot against the virus itself except maybe remdesivir, and that one definitely aint foolproof- at least not as a treatment.




fortunately for the rest of us
the US bought up the next three months worth of the global supply

:pokerawe:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika]
    #26797764 - 07/01/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What global supply? It is a patented US drug that has never existed outside of this country. Last I heard, Gilead was going to try to come up with some agreements with foreign pharmaceutical manufacturers to allow them to produce it. I dont follow how pharmaceutical companies typically operate but that doesnt exactly seem malicious to me.

There is a limited supply of the drug and my understanding is it that it could only be bought by US purchasers anyway for now so it doesnt surprise me that it all got bought up quickly

Edit: after a bit of digging it seems that gilead had donated some remdesivir to other countries for clinical trials. Now it looks like the UK is hoping they can use something called a compulsory license to buy the drug from companies who dont care about US patent laws.


Edited by morrowasted (07/01/20 08:48 PM)


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika]
    #26797769 - 07/01/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Looks like it was 500k doses. As much as I hate our current administration, buying 500k doses of something that's made here when we're seeing 50k+ new cases a day (and rising quickly) seems like a move most countries would make. Hopefully they work with the rest of the world to get a global supply chain going, if it is proven to be effective (haven't looked at the newer studies).


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26797776 - 07/01/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
50,701 new cases in the US today



One of my boys in England sent me a message today saying the US is predicted to hit 100,000 cases a day soon. Along with the cheery message that 'I bet you're glad to be there right now!!'.

If it aint already reached critical mass here, it damn sure will soon, IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26797784 - 07/01/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
What global supply? It is a patented US drug that has never existed outside of this country. Last I heard, Gilead was going to try to come up with some agreements with foreign pharmaceutical manufacturers to allow them to produce it. I dont follow how pharmaceutical companies typically operate but that doesnt exactly seem malicious to me.

There is a limited supply of the drug and my understanding is it that it could only be bought by US purchasers anyway for now so it doesnt surprise me that it all got bought up quickly




It's just the top-twitter spam news story for the past 30ish hours now
Quote:

The US has bought up virtually all the stocks for the next three months of one of the two drugs proven to work against Covid-19, leaving none for the UK, Europe or most of the rest of the world.

Experts and campaigners are alarmed both by the US unilateral action on remdesivir and the wider implications, for instance in the event of a vaccine becoming available. The Trump administration has already shown that it is prepared to outbid and outmanoeuvre all other countries to secure the medical supplies it needs for the US.

“They’ve got access to most of the drug supply [of remdesivir], so there’s nothing for Europe,” said Dr Andrew Hill, senior visiting research fellow at Liverpool University.

Remdesivir, the first drug approved by licensing authorities in the US to treat Covid-19, is made by Gilead and has been shown to help people recover faster from the disease. The first 140,000 doses, supplied to drug trials around the world, have been used up. The Trump administration has now bought more than 500,000 doses, which is all of Gilead’s production for July and 90% of August and September.



Quote:

Buying up the world’s supply of remdesivir is not just a reaction to the increasing spread and death toll. The US has taken an “America first” attitude throughout the global pandemic.

In May, French manufacturer Sanofi said the US would get first access to its Covid vaccine if it works. Its CEO, Paul Hudson, was quoted as saying: “The US government has the right to the largest pre-order because it’s invested in taking the risk,” and, he added, the US expected that “if we’ve helped you manufacture the doses at risk, we expect to get the doses first”. Later it backtracked under pressure from the French government.

Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau warned there could be unintended negative consequences if the US continued to outbid its allies. “We know it is in both of our interests to work collaboratively and cooperatively to keep our citizens safe,” he said. The Trump administration has also invoked the Defense Production Act to block some medical goods made in the US from being sent abroad.



Quote:

Remdesivir would get people out of hospital more quickly, reducing the burden on the NHS, and might improve survival, said Hill, although that has not yet been shown in trials, as it has with the other successful treatment, the steroid dexamethasone. There has been no attempt to buy up the world’s stocks of dexamethasone because there is no need – the drug is 60 years old, cheap and easily available everywhere.

Hill said there was a way for the UK to secure supplies of this and other drugs during the pandemic, through what is known as a compulsory licence, which overrides the intellectual property rights of the company. That would allow the UK government to buy from generic companies in Bangladesh or India, where Gilead’s patent is not recognised.

The UK has always upheld patents, backing the argument of pharma companies that they need their 20-year monopoly to recoup the money they put into research and development. But other countries have shown an interest in compulsory licensing. “It is a question of what countries are prepared to do if this becomes a problem,” said Hill.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

frankly it is a toss-up to me
the US kind of needs any edge it can get since the overall response has been so bad
but it is just another step by the Trump administration to alienate US allies
ironic that it takes a global pandemic for the UK to decide that maybe it should just go with generics from countries that ignore US patents tho :lol:
:shrug:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika]
    #26797787 - 07/01/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I dont use any social media and have basically been intentionally not paying attention to the news but essentially all those articles are saying is that Gilead didn't choose to sell its limited supply to other countries. Given how limited the supply was and how bad the problem is here, the decision is totally unsurprising

if I canadian manufacturer had invented it, only had enough to go around for canadians, and the problem was bad in canada, do you really think they'd be choosing to sell it to a bunch of other countries? doubt it


Edited by morrowasted (07/01/20 08:56 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26797791 - 07/01/20 08:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Looks like you went a little too deep into the System this time....but since yer here, might as well pick up your complementary USA Coronavirus mask:


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OfflineFSHuntings
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26797797 - 07/01/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

At least the deaths per day are lower than what they have been. I try to keep it positive here ladies and gents.


Edited by FSHuntings (07/01/20 08:57 PM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26797802 - 07/01/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Basically all those articles are saying is that Gilead didn't choose to sell its limited supply to other countries. Given how limited the supply was and how bad the problem is here, the decision is totally unsurprising




yeah, quoted the portion that stated "The US has taken an “America first” attitude throughout the global pandemic."
first it was banning sales of masks to the rest of the world, including Canada where the mask company imported its pulp from
now it is the first medication showing progress
the obvious next step is recognizing that the rest of the world will not see access to vaccines in a timely manner, either

that is why the decision by other countries to go to generics rather than contract with the US and help pay off the patent is also unsurprising

but it will play out as the price going up further for US citizens when the company cannot recoup losses on a global scale


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26797811 - 07/01/20 09:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Looks like you went a little too deep into the System this time....but since yer here, might as well pick up your complementary USA Coronavirus mask:



LOL. I like your style brother!!

Too red, white and blue for my liking though; I only wear one colour...



--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: Tantrika]
    #26797823 - 07/01/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

all I am saying is that it is totally disingenuous for the media to be referring to a "global supply". the supply only becomes a global supply if the manufacturer decides to make it a global supply. Cuba comes up with all sorts of experimental treatments and you bet your ass that once cuba is done collaborating with american doctors to pefect them, cubans get priority access to the drugs, vaccines, etc. that are manufactured in cuba (actually AFAIK they are the ONLY ones who get access to them because presumably that stuff is paid for by cuban taxpayers). when there was a mask and ventilator shortage here in the USA, ANYTHING we got from china was just what was left over after they used what they needed, and even then we got the bottom of the barrel PPE compared to what they gave their own people. that is why US manufacturers had be converted to make ventilators and shit really quickly. media outlets in other countries being on a high horse acting like it's some kind of uniquely "US" behavior is ridiculous


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: morrowasted]
    #26797855 - 07/01/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
all I am saying is that it is totally disingenuous for the media to be referring to a "global supply". the supply only becomes a global supply if the manufacturer decides to make it a global supply.




Which they did with the initial more limited supply of 140 000 doses to make sure the drug worked
then once they knew it did, instant US monoply

Quote:

morrowasted said:
...when there was a mask and ventilator shortage here in the USAWorldwide, ANYTHING weanyone got from china was just what was left over after they used what they needed, and even then we got the bottom of the barrel PPE compared to what they gave their own people. that is why US manufacturersmanufacturers around the globe had be converted to make ventilators and shit really quickly.  other countriesThe US being on a high horse acting like it's some kind of uniquely "US" behaviorproblem is ridiculous.




fixed that for you, so you didn't just view it through your America first lens

The US has already stated it is going to buy up the vaccine when it comes if it comes from France
the French government had to step in to keep the company from being pressured to sell its whole product to the US in the event they can successfully manufacture

The US made the masks it denied shipping to Canada with product that we doubled production and kept shipping down there after the bullshit decision
we could have just went "nah we need the pulp for our mask manufacture up here guess you have to find another source"

but yeah, because the US stopped exporting to us
Canadian manufacturers also had to go over to producing masks and ventilators and shit

totally get that the US still views itself as a superpower that has to function properly itself before engaging in the global sphere
but the reality of the world of international trade is that holding that semi-isolationist view is bad for the US and bad for their allies


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