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DragonsGrin
Enlightened Demi-God
Registered: 07/01/20
Posts: 4
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization
#26797313 - 07/01/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Greetings.
This is how to make pasteurized and sterilized casing substrate that works wonders.
I am very to the point and simple in my explanations so bare with my different style of context. I simply do not like to waste words.
Materials needed------
An oven
Access to water (Distilled preferred but un-needed)
A 5 gallon bucket
Tinfoil
Tin baking pans. (Disposable or not. I find the disposable ones bend and allow easier coverage.)
Oven bags (Turkey bags)
Coco-Coir: 1 part
Vermiculite: 1 part (Can use more to dry out the mix at the end of the pasteurization)
Worm Castings: 1 part
Bee Pollen: 1 Tbs per 4 cups (Powdered or course)
Gypsum: 1 Tbs per 4 cups
Karo (Light corn syrup): 2 tbs per 6 cups
Ground Coffee: 1/2 cup per 6 cups
Place all ingredients into a fine mesh brewing/steeping bag or pillow case. Be sure to add Karo after you have mixed everything together throughly, leaving the pool on top of the mixture.
Add the bag full of dry substrate to the bucket.
Add boiling water slowly and begin mixing with a solid utensil such as a metal spoon. This will distribute the Karo and dispurse the Bee Pollen.
You will want water to soak through everything until it pools an inch above the substrate. It will be far more water than you need. This is expected and will cleanly destroy most viral/bacterial/mold spores within.
Tie your bag closed tightly after making sure your mix is through and place a lid, folded towel, aluminum foil, or plastic wrap over the container and leave it for 12-24 hours.
When cooled enough to handle, pour out or reuse this potent tea for a 1/4 mix of water and tea on another substrate such as a 50/50 verm & coir mix. At this time you will have to squeeze and drain as much water as possible. This can be helped along by adding more vermiculite to your bag once opened.
The consistency should allow you to see a fair amount of water until you release the substrate from a squeeze. It should be sucked all back within like a sponge. If it acts like a sponge you are ready for sterilization. If not, add a cup of vermiculite at a time or so and mix until it is of consistency.
Distribute the substrate into the oven bags. Do not fill more than half. Roll the tops down and squeeze out excess air until the entire bag is tight and can be considered air tight or the proximity of such.
Turn the 'filled' bags upside down and place them each in their own baking pan. Again, I prefer tin disposable turkey pans as they bend nicely.
Alternately you can wrap the bags tightly in just foil and skip the next step.
Cover and seal the tops over the pan and bag with tinfoil. When they are tightly sealed, the last step is ready.
Sterilization in the oven. I still have no clue why people are saying one needs a pressure cooker when they are perversely expensive due to Corona and everyone's new canning hobbies. Whatever.
270° for 1 hour the reduce heat 200° for 2 hours
This brings even a ten pound brick of substrate to core temperature quite nicely.
Let this cool two days and then refrigerate or freeze until use.
Psilocybe loves my mix and hopefully so will you. Feel free to share.
Edited by DragonsGrin (07/01/20 04:09 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: DragonsGrin]
#26797334 - 07/01/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is definitely something to be said for doing the thing's that you enjoy doing , glad your recipes have worked out well for you, thanks for sharing.
People use pressure cookers and autoclaves because dry heat isn't as effective for sterilization, they're worth the investment.
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DragonsGrin
Enlightened Demi-God
Registered: 07/01/20
Posts: 4
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26797353 - 07/01/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't see dry heat since the insides of the oven bag steam cook the substrate with its excess of water. Perhaps I am wrong, but three hours at boiling and above will do the same internally as a pressure cooker if not more since the pressure in the cooker makes water boil at a lower temperature.
Am I wrong in assuming that? Perhaps, but I have not seen any difference save for the amount of time used between an oven and a pressure cooker. Large amounts of substrate just can't be done in one batch like they can in an oven. Well.. Assuming you are a normal person and don't have a 40 gallon pressure cooker. Those tend to be about six hundred or so dollars.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: DragonsGrin]
#26797376 - 07/01/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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"As the temperature and pressure are increased, the time required to sterilize items can be greatly reduced. Compared with dry heat sterilization, steam sterilization is the more efficient method because the moisture in steam is a good conductor of heat and is superior at penetrating the load"
https://www.labmanager.com/product-focus/sterilizing-with-steam-versus-dry-heat-1875
You don't need a large PC or autoclave, you can steam sterilize at atmospheric pressure in anything from a large stock pot to a 55 gal drum. Really any heat resistant vessel will do so long as steam is provided and temperatures are maintained for a sufficient length of time.
If you're getting away with using an oven and you're happy doing it then that's great, but you can get better efficiency elsewhere. Many on this site have built and used bulk atmospheric steam sterilizers.
I would still use an autoclave or PC for grains though, just so much more efficient. Bulk steamers are a staple in SE Asia and elsewhere for the production of sterile substrate for oysters and other gourmet species.
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DragonsGrin
Enlightened Demi-God
Registered: 07/01/20
Posts: 4
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26797398 - 07/01/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That sounds more like something I would worry about with jars rather than casing. I understand heat distribution.
You could put a metal pan half full of water in your oven on the bottom rack as well.
I just don't see a need for further distribution at a three hour heating period. I'd be willing to bet there won't be cold spots.
Also in China, they have been growing and cultivating mushrooms for a few thousand years longer than the western world. Very few people would claim to use a pressure cooker. They also have about five hundred more types of Mushrooms including some that westerners don't seem to know anything about.
Its simply a tool. Nothing is perfect, though I trust my instincts and follow my grandmother's methods on this one.
I am defiantly not saying don't use a pressure cooker if you have one, but as you've seen, it's un-needed.
If you want to be precise, use a convection Brava oven over a pressure cooker. You'd only need to cook for ten second or so.
I want one.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: DragonsGrin]
#26797409 - 07/01/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I said, you're doing what you love, man...keep up the good work
Pretty awesome that your grandmother was a cultivator.
Quote:
DragonsGrin said: If you want to be precise, use a convection Brava oven over a pressure cooker. You'd only need to cook for ten second or so.
That sort of thing is going to be a hard sell around here, brother. There is a very good reason why labs, hospitals and dentistry clinics have autoclaves instead of Brava convection ovens.
Do you have any grows from this method that you'd like to share?
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (07/01/20 04:47 PM)
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DragonsGrin
Enlightened Demi-God
Registered: 07/01/20
Posts: 4
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26799111 - 07/02/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, perhaps if the USA had laws about pocketing their funds and enforced them, there would be more modern equipment in hospitals. All one has to do is simply look at the education system to understand there is serious need of reform. Sadly, people are aggressively disinterested in updating to things like wireless electricity or UV sterilization over dated methods.
Simply put, older methods still work and no one bothers to spend money on something that works faster or better in a lab, hospital, military, or home.
I believe its the mentality of everyone else telling people they have an expertise in Myconology, when one needs to go overseas to even study something like that (From the USA). Myconology in China is pretty much home taught before one decides to go to college for such. Of course, Im not a big believer in some of the holistics that are home taught, like eating tiger penis or rhino horns (I refused to eat Rhino Horn and finaly got my grandmother to hand over the Horn), but then, there is a reasonable amount of actual research and development into Myconology due to the safety factor and how integrated into Asian lives 'Mushrooms' are.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: DragonsGrin]
#26799119 - 07/02/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm interested in seeing some of your grows. Would you mind sharing that with us?
Also, the word is mycology, not myconology.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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Roger Clemency
Smile


Registered: 03/23/20
Posts: 2,005
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#26799165 - 07/02/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cubes love Coir or coir/verm. Like Phu said it's cool that you enjoy your method but all that extra stuff is so much work and with every additive your chance for contamination increases and for what benefit?
PCs are for grains, which you can sterilize other ways but it takes many hours instead of 90 min. And for bulk sub prep you can't beat coir/verm with 20 min of work and an hour of waiting then boom, ready to spawn.
You're saying mycologists in the US aren't properly trained? And just to be clear..people who grow mushrooms are not necessarily mycologists. A mycologist can grow mushrooms, but they're scientists.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26799171 - 07/02/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah that's pretty backwards with all the shit and methods China steals from OUR scientists... which is my biggest grievance with China.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: AtmozFear]
#26799175 - 07/02/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Most actual mycologists I’ve met don’t usually grow much if at all. There are exceptions of course but “mycology” is a huge field.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: DragonsGrin]
#26799219 - 07/02/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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OP did you post here just so that you can let off some steam or are you here to be a contributing part of a community?
Why not post some pics and get this thing back on track. You've made some claims about the efficacy of your methods now let's see the fruit off all that labour.
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26799276 - 07/02/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ziggen
Bludgeon Yer Eye



Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 651
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: AtmozFear]
#26799503 - 07/02/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Ziggen]
#26799672 - 07/02/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Roger Clemency
Smile


Registered: 03/23/20
Posts: 2,005
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: mushhead] 2
#26799690 - 07/02/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nom nom nom
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26799778 - 07/02/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice.
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ElViajero
Traveler


Registered: 08/16/18
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26799789 - 07/02/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said:
Nom nom nom 
--------------------
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Re: Coir + Verm + Castings + Pollen + Karo + Coffee + Gypsum Pastureize & Sterilization [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26800002 - 07/02/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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damn
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