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OfflineGr0wer
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how is a strain made?
    #2679680 - 05/14/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What made me think about this is penis envy which was a strain that was made, at least that what thehawkseye.com says. How would one go about making there own strain?? Would i just be isolating features by taking prints of that shroom and keep continuing the line of offspring that carry these traits? Or do you use chemicals and stuff to mutate the shrooms?


Edited by Gr0wer (05/15/04 02:05 AM)


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OfflineTransplant
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Re: how is a strain made? *DELETED* [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2680191 - 05/14/04 11:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Transplant


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Transplant]
    #2680723 - 05/15/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

?? are you joking??


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Invisible@cro
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2681367 - 05/15/04 06:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm....
I don't really remember waht was written but I think this has something to do with what you are talking about....
Strains
Peace - @cro
edit: that url was fucking up the size


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Edited by @cro (05/15/04 02:22 PM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2681460 - 05/15/04 08:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you would start by ignoring nearly everything you read on the Hawkseye website as it is all bullshit...
A strain is a mixture of various phenotype expressions of one species - if you found a cubie in the wild that had naturaly selected its phenotypes it could take about 40 generations to really alter these significantly...


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OfflineTransplant
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Re: how is a strain made? *DELETED* [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2681509 - 05/15/04 09:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinedoc34
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Re: how is a strain made? *DELETED* [Re: Transplant]
    #2681512 - 05/15/04 09:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by doc34


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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2681579 - 05/15/04 10:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2681582 - 05/15/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineMycena
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2681788 - 05/15/04 11:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Im interested
Bluemeanie can you justify that claim?
or is 40 an arbitrary #

I was under the impression a 'strain' doesnt reall exist in our context, except for a few mutants like penis envy and PF classic
Other than that what is grow are either isolates/clones or Spore races

Spore races are not strains as there is always some variation. maybe we should call them varieties as they seem to fit well with the concept of that like vegetable cultivars or even humans...

Broccoli for example is self infertile and in a variety you must have several compatibility factors to ensure outcrossing can occur. If the genetic base goes too low and these are lost the variety withers and cant reproduce or maintain vigour.
Shrooms also need mating types to reproduce and these are mantained over the generations

Every dikaryon is therefore a hybrid, just like every Human and every broccoli plant


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OfflineNoG
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Mycena]
    #2681857 - 05/15/04 12:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Think of shrooms as people how many strains of people do you think there are ? rofl 

everyone is similar but have things unique to them  for example finger prints, hair colour & type.  eye colour, skin colour, height & weight.  so does this make every individual a different strain ? no


a great NoG quote from one evening i was tripin :slider:

"we are all the same but different"

Later NoG  :1up:


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Invisiblespores
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Transplant]
    #2681865 - 05/15/04 12:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I believe the fungi you're thinking of is yeasts, which is often used for cell biology/genetics research.  While they are fungi, they're unicellular and have a much more simple life cycle than mushrooms, you aren't going to do 40 generations of a basidiomycete fungus on a single plate.

Bluemeanie seems to be one of the more knowledgable members of this website when it comes to "advanced studies of mycology" and I think he knows more than you give him credit for...

You on the other hand, it sounds like you just got the bio101 basics of yeast genetics and are extrapolating them to all the organisms in the entire kingdom...  So if you do actually know of any instances where multicellular fungi have been used for (non-molecular) gene mapping studies and such things, post them and enlighten me :smile:.

DH


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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2681899 - 05/15/04 12:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Psilocybe cubensis is the species.

Gt is the spore race(Strain).
Within GT there are many substrains(strains)(Dikaryons).

GT is a population of monokaryons. These monokaryons share certain traits that make them a Spore Race or strain. The individual monokaryons that mate and form the dikaryons that make the next generation of monokaryons, MUST have disimilar alleles on the Mating type loci. This is different then saying they are completely different, because they are not. They can still share enough genes to keep them as members of a SPORE RACE or STRAIN.

When two monokaryons do mate, and they are both from the same spore race, it is not a hybrid. They are only different at the mating type loci.

Mating a GT monokaryon with a EQ monokaryon would result in a hybrid dikaryon, that could potentially fuse nuclei, undergo meiosis, and produce hybrid spores. These spores would be the new spore race or strain.

Phenotypes are just the expression of the genotype in an environmnet. GT has many phenotypes, as do each and every spore race.

I use spore race interchangably with STRAIN. Referring to the population of individuals within a group. I use Strain interchangably with Substrain, reffering to the actual dikaryons(individulas of the population).

If you take a monokaryon from GT and mate it with a monokaryon from EQ, and this dikaryon forms spores, these new spores are a new STRAIN.

If you mate a monokaryon with a compatible monokaryon both from GT, you have not created a new strain(spore race) but you have created a new Substrain (Strain)of GT. This is inbreeding within a spore race. Compatability factors guarentees that dikaryons are not formed by monokaryons that have similar compatability factors. The monokaryons still share enough genetic traits that they remain GT. They STILL LOOK LIKE GT.

Mutation can occur all on it's own, or artificially. This could also lead to new spore races developing.

NO one has performed compatability tests between all the strains in circulation, so we don't know how similar or disimilar they all are.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ]
    #2682150 - 05/15/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i think you guys are thinking strands, not strains, there are millions of strains but only 40 or so strains.

so basicly it owuld take allot of work to get a little bit diffrent strain but it is possible. the only thing is if you wanted to make a potent strain and did extractions comparing the content the environment and substrate would have to be identical to get good results.


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OfflineNugDumper
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2682198 - 05/15/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do like the vendors and completely bullshit everyone and just start renaming your spores. Think about it.... South American.... looks alot like an EQ, oh wait, its the same fucking thing. hmmmm all the Thailand strains look nearly identitical and all suck the same ass.... oh wait, they are the same. Alot of these dumbass vendors put their own little names on shit... either they name it after the state they live in or come up with some bullshit name... Golden Teacher???? Can you be any more vague and less scientific?

THIS IS WHY YOU DONT MIX SCIENCE WITH BULLSHIT VENDOR BUSINESS.


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All that I need is the air that I breathe... and all that I need are things I don't need... and all that really matters is what matters to me me me... -Shannon Hoon

Racism is schism on a serious tip! -Bradley Nowell


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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2682202 - 05/15/04 02:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am not confusing anything. The work is not that much. And the differences would be as significant as the difference between GT and EQ.

If you can't see a difference between the two strains, then yes, it is alot of work for nothing.

Some of us can see a difference between all the strains(races). Some of us can even see a difference between individuals within a Strain(race).


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ]
    #2682979 - 05/15/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

When I tried to explain that I was called stupid!But yet you are now trying to steal glory?

I know I didnt use the right words or the right approach,but the damn Idea was the same Teonan.
I was told it couldnt be done and that I didnt know what I was talking about,but yet you just stated what I was trying to.
What gives you the right to muffle me?
Some people,man,some people!


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ]
    #2685509 - 05/16/04 05:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

toad - plaese dont reply or read my posts - they are far too intellectual for your small penis...
Have a read of his sight- he tells us how his collegue fruited cubies off wood when they lack the enzymes to be able to do this without another nutrient base - he tells us that various panaeolus species are the 'second' or 'third' most potent in the world - when any one who has tried them and any woodlover can demonstrate this quite false - i could go on all day but i cannot be fucked - but suffice to say as far as vendors and their info - he is right up there with PF and that other old prick that got banned - forget his name now...


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2685529 - 05/16/04 05:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What is a strand? The difference between two strains of a species is a human idea - in actual fact their genetics are highly variable and differ only because of environmental isolation.
But if you wank every tuesday night at exactly 11:30pm and then praise the moon three times from below a willow tree your isolates will slowly mutate into an almighty wsuper strain that will be so potent that your balls will explode...


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2685648 - 05/16/04 06:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Idiots-fucking idiots!Get your asses out of those books for a minute and try something for a change and you might see for yourself that "YOU""DONT" have all of the fucking answers to everything-you are not a mushroom god!Though I know you want to consider yourself as one-you are not,by far!


You guy's told me it couldnt be done and that I was a dumbass for thinking so-but yet you turn right around and tell other ones the same damn thing I was trying to say and coming from your mouth it is fact?!Fuck you,you glory stealing bitches-I may not use the big words and yes I may copy and paste,but that doesnt make me wrong nor does it make me dumb,asshole!
I said basically the same damn thing and now you say it is true!you are a two faced bitch in my book!


Edited by doc34 (05/16/04 06:47 AM)


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