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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26794419 - 06/30/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Yes it’s definitely not right. However if I’m correct he could leave the grain in the jar, case and top fruit if he wanted a print or some produce with minimal risk. If you’re right the whole thing should be trashed and every culture and print he has from that line needs to be triaged. He will need to either clean the fuck out of his whole house or quit growing for six months (six months is the average lifespan of Lecanicillium fungicola spores).
That all said, I strongly agree that he not spawn or expand that jar.
Wow we need to talk about this lol. I’m on vacation so I haven’t been very responsive sorry. I would like to speak with you guys later. I’ve got new jars now that are also getting that thick mat look.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26794489 - 06/30/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The short of it is AHEM Lecanicillium aka Verticillium Dry Bubble is a parasite type "infection" that spreads really sticky spores and can become a reocurring problem and infects the prints of crops and any clones taken from it
Quote:
Unfortunately, this disease can rapidly escalate into an epidemic and then it takes weeks to gradually reduce the spore load on the farm to get the disease back under control. This reduction in the spore load around a farm and in the houses is a very important component of control. How to reduce this spore load is the problem. First, the vector(s) that is spreading the spores must be identified and stopped. From the time of first symptom development the grower must look back to who or what was in contact with the crop about 10-14 days earlier; with warmer room temperatures or higher humidity, that time is shortened to about 7-10 days. Most often, dry bubbles spotted before the end of first break indicate that the crop was infested by something other than harvesting personnel or their equipment.
So you don't want me to be right about it. It's gross. And at this stage the vector would be simply growing with previously infected spores/clones, in addition to the damage you are doing to your growroom by spreading even more spores by continuing to grow it. So youd likely end up having to trace that line of clone back and destroy any prints that were made from it and etc. It would be an issue. You can see how it can get out of hand.
Edited by sandman420 (06/30/20 12:54 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: sandman420]
#26794524 - 06/30/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lol okay man, you can copy paste as many 20 year old posts as you like.
I’m not saying OP doesn’t have a Lecanicillium issue, I’m saying it’s not visible in the picture. But the grain is most obviously bacterial, the pressed uncolonized grains are the major indicator.
Even if that was a “dry bubble” in the jar, it would mean the colony is pinning. Pinning invitro in cereal grain IME is most often seen as a response to bacteria.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26794532 - 06/30/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was talking to the OP not you, just saying what it would be like if he DID have the infection. Relax friend. No bad joojoo. I was literally in agreement with your previous post about how if I was right he had a big problem.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: sandman420]
#26794558 - 06/30/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It’s a huge problem, white molds are the worst. I struggled with it for years. Worse than trich. Fortunately it’s not actually super common and as bodhi recently demonstrated, most people who worry they have it usually are looking at pseudomonas instead.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26794567 - 06/30/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: It’s a huge problem, white molds are the worst. I struggled with it for years. Worse than trich. Fortunately it’s not actually super common and as bodhi recently demonstrated, most people who worry they have it usually are looking at pseudomonas instead.
Hey if it can help y’all figure out just how bad my problem is, this is a pic from one of three shoeboxes all from the same jars as the one we have been talking about. I know there isn’t many mushies growing but a lot of side pins as well. Probably didn’t take care of my surface good since I was traveling.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26794590 - 06/30/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's pretty sad looking foooor sure.
Could just be some bacteria. Heres some signs of vert to look for though as the crop ages:
Exploded stems bubbles aka blobs slimy brown or grey patch in center of cap downturned growth
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Pastywhyte
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26794606 - 06/30/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The growth pattern is weak and looks bacterial for sure. But the pins do not look infected with white molds; Lecanicillium infection causes the fruits to slump, the base bowes out, the stipe starts to shatter or peel, and the caps turn greyish. Some pins will fail completely and turn into a cap less dry looking ball or bubble. Those pins look like they are battling something though, probably trich that sets in from the bacterial spawn. I like to call pins like those “trich pins.”
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26795032 - 06/30/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I’m not so bummed that my first shoeboxes don’t seem to be turning out. I’m bummed because I see no difference in the other 12 jars I have going now. You guys seem to think these few pins of mine are battling something. If a full fruit produces, is it safe to consume? That’s the kind of thing I guess I really need to be learning now. Safety first.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26795063 - 06/30/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes it would be safe for nearly anyone to consume even in my worst case scenario. Some people can be sensitive to bacteria and molds so it's better if you dehydrate it under 150+f heat to be on the safest side and to go easier on your stomach.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: sandman420]
#26795484 - 06/30/20 08:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: Yes it would be safe for nearly anyone to consume even in my worst case scenario. Some people can be sensitive to bacteria and molds so it's better if you dehydrate it under 150+f heat to be on the safest side and to go easier on your stomach.
So here are my next 4 jars. They are colonizing twice as fast as the jars and boxes we have been discussing. Everything I have has come from one MS syringe but I’m like 6 transfers deep and all my agar seems really clean. If I do 6 transfers I may lose one to two. I even had some agar plates pin and I transferred the pin. Those look really good on agar.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26795707 - 06/30/20 09:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Those jars look like the reason I regretted ever using oats. My apologies to those who followed my poor example.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26795916 - 06/30/20 11:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Those jars look like the reason I regretted ever using oats. My apologies to those who followed my poor example.
Please elaborate. And what do you use now?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26796020 - 07/01/20 12:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like rye and wheat. They are an easy prep and low CFU populations IME. WBS is a less forgiving prep and more expensive but, it’s easily sourced and has great inoculation power.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26796319 - 07/01/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I like rye and wheat. They are an easy prep and low CFU populations IME. WBS is a less forgiving prep and more expensive but, it’s easily sourced and has great inoculation power.
So should I even make shoeboxes with those jars? I’ll look into rye or wheat next.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26796346 - 07/01/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hell no dont make boxes with those. You just going to get a few stragglers that aren't even worth the 25 cents to dehydrate them.
I just wanted to put a good word out there for millet too. It is by far the cleanest grain that is available at my feed store, and super tiny size makes it the superior spawn. It can be hard to work with in jars though, hard to shake it gets way more dense than any other grain when colonized. Gotta add gypsum for jars for sure. A lot better for bags.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: sandman420]
#26796354 - 07/01/20 06:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: Hell no dont make boxes with those. You just going to get a few stragglers that aren't even worth the 25 cents to dehydrate them.
I just wanted to put a good word out there for millet too. It is by far the cleanest grain that is available at my feed store, and super tiny size makes it the superior spawn. It can be hard to work with in jars though, hard to shake it gets way more dense than any other grain when colonized. Gotta add gypsum for jars for sure. A lot better for bags.
Well crap. So if all my jars are coming out this way from a few different agar plates is it safe to say that I shouldn’t use any of my other ready to go agar plates. I’ve got 5 plates in the fridge grown out to about 75 percent of the surface area. Some of them were grown from agar pins.
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sandman420
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26796359 - 07/01/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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well not necessarily. Depends on the vector and the organsism and seems to be at least debatable. The plates could be clean and it could be grain prep or something.
But my opinion is that you have the parasite this just doesn't look like bacteria to me. Usually bacterial jars make a lot of heat and the get really wet looking from condensation, and there is typically some definite lines of demarcation where the mycelium makes a defining edge against the bacteria that I am not seeing. A pretty reliable test for bacteria is to give the jar a whiff ans see if it stinks. That's my opinion here not really interested in arguing about it or anything anymore I've said my piece.
Edited by sandman420 (07/01/20 07:01 AM)
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: sandman420]
#26796371 - 07/01/20 07:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: well not necessarily. Depends on the vector and the organsism and seems to be at least debatable. The plates could be clean and it could be grain prep or something.
But my opinion is that you have the parasite this just doesn't look like bacteria to me. Usually bacterial jars make a lot of heat and the get really wet looking from condensation and there is some definite lines of demarcation where the mycelium makes a defining edge against the bacteria that I am not seeing.
Okay well I sure do appreciate the help. Later today in this thread I think I’ll sacrifice one of my agar plates and put some pics in this thread to let you guys have a look. I’ll show the oat brand I’m using and maybe y’all a bit about my grain prep. I’ve made two batches af jars. Both with a 2hr pressure cook. One was bods oat prep tek. The second was a easier prep without boiling. Just an overnight soak. But always 2 hrs at 15psi.
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Jbrady5555
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Re: What is happening in this jar? [Re: Jbrady5555]
#26796374 - 07/01/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I smell everything and it all smells like mushrooms. If I don’t use these jars what about casing the top of the jars just to see what happens? I’m all about trying different things to learn right now.
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