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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: qman]
#26795506 - 06/30/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: It's easiest when you realize basically everyone is a terrible person.
Well that's the thing, very few can ever be 'good enough' by the standards of today. One has to have been abused into a state of constant victimization, that's very difficult to accomplish over the course of a lifetime.
This is an interesting position that seems like it comes from a state of constant victimization
rather than very few ever being 'good enough' by the standards of today
very few are ever actually criticized for their abhorrent positions by the standards of today
you speak as tho there is some impossible standard being held up that no one can get to but the reality is there is a very basic standard that most people already adhere to and very few are being needed to be uplifted to
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Loc: House of Mirrors
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: Tantrika]
#26795687 - 06/30/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank God Hitler wasn't actually that good of an artist am I right?
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: morrowasted]
#26795701 - 06/30/20 09:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Thank God Hitler wasn't actually that good of an artist am I right?
nor an author took Mien Kampf out of the High School library a brick of a read if ever there was one
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: morrowasted]
#26795765 - 06/30/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Thank God Hitler wasn't actually that good of an artist am I right?
Yeah bob Ross was way better for sure...(even if he copied his whole style from his mentor William allexander) lol
-------------------- Those content with the least have the most.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,202
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: morrowasted] 2
#26795790 - 06/30/20 10:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Thank God Hitler wasn't actually that good of an artist am I right?
Did you not see the painting I posted that he did, it's is a dank ass mountain landscape painting, better than Bob ross. How is that not good?
This is Hitlers

This is a bob ross

Hitlers use of color is more advanced than bob ross, Hitlers is way more intricate and use of complex colors. Bob Ross painting looks elementary comparitivley.
Edited by trees (06/30/20 10:45 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: trees]
#26795815 - 06/30/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The Hitler one isn’t showing 🤨
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26795823 - 06/30/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's a famous quote about never meeting your Idol (with social media it is too easy to "meet" them) so prepare to be disillusioned. I am also an extreme cynic. It wouldn't surprise me if Greta Thunberg was playing a part to make a brand for herself and make money. Now I'm not saying I mind if she makes money incidentally to her work, but that her work was premeditated as a way to make money, a bizzaro Alex Jones if you will. But like I said I am cynic, human depravity knows no bounds.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,202
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26795831 - 06/30/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The Hitler one isn’t showing 🤨
Tried to fix, I see it, but I just found this other Hitler one that is definitly dank. That's actually a really good painting of a tree
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: trees]
#26795850 - 06/30/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Your Hitler paintings aren’t showing up.
Now they are.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: trees]
#26795852 - 06/30/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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🧐
Hmmm. Decent. Now I can see why it didn’t take him anywhere good
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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SARAtonin
Violent Dreams


Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 15,930
Loc: Deutschland
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: The Blind Ass] 5
#26795857 - 06/30/20 10:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves. Want to join a cult? Click for details…
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: SARAtonin] 1
#26801148 - 07/03/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Snipped from your thread about Bassnectar
Quote:
SARAtonin said: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCFegEdp8LI/
So recognize that with what happened to your parents a lot of your talk about this dude being "dad" and the community he ran likely meant you had a lot more invested than it is possible for me to relate directly to and would like to reassert that you being willing to share this with us is huge
you mentioned in discord that you want to deny this until you are white in the face but that you need to stand with women first and that you adopted that view, and deleted the smilies from the server means more to me than you may realize because it affirmed my having a safe place to deal with these issues around you -- that is the community you have given me as someone who has been an outcast all her life 
but what really struck me was some of the characteristics of what he said and am going to actually try to do a sort of compare and contrast with another artist
while we were talking about this all in discord and stuff, Alanis Morisette serendipitously came up in my youtube recommends and as soon as firing up Hands Clean, immediately remembered it is a song all about grooming or, rather, about being groomed
Alanis sings about her being groomed and abused from the ages of 14 to 19
worth noting that at the time of her abuse, 14 was technically the legal age of consent in Canada (now 16) so the illegality of the affair comes out of the relationship she implies she speaks about the abuser being in a formal position of authority over her, which immediately voids a portion of the law and makes the age of consent 18
it is important to note that Alanis has never named her abuser the overall lyrics of the song heavily imply it was her producer who put out her first album around the age of 16 and a lot of people in her fanbase jump to accusations of him, but personally feel it important to recognize not to blame someone without an explicit identification from the victim when available
verses are parroting of things her abuser told her, chorus is her
Quote:
[Verse 1] If it weren't for your maturity, none of this would have happened If you weren't so wise beyond your years, I would've been able to control myself If it weren't for my attention, you wouldn't have been successful and if If it weren't for me, you would never have amounted to very much
[Pre-Chorus] Ooh, this could be messy But you don't seem to mind, and Ooh, don't go telling everybody And overlook this supposed crime
[Chorus] Well, fast forward to a few years later And no one knows except the both of us And I have honored your request for silence And you've washed your hands clean of this
[Verse 2] You're essentially an employee and I like you having to depend on me You're a kind of my protégé and one day you'll say you learned all you know from me I know you depend on me like a young thing would to a guardian I know you sexualize me like a young thing would, and I think I like ya
[Pre-Chorus] Ooh, this could get messy But, ooh, you don't seem to mind Dude, don't go telling everybody And overlook this supposed crime
[Chorus] We'll fast forward to a few years later And no one knows except the both of us And I've more than honored your request for silence And you've washed your hands clean of this
[Bridge] What part of our history's reinvented and under rug swept? What part of your memory is selective and tends to forget? What with this distance it seems so obvious?
[Verse 3] Just make sure you don't tell on me, especially to members of your family We best keep this to ourselves and not tell any members of our inner posse I wish I could tell the world cause you're such a pretty thing when you're done up properly I might want to marry you one day, if you watch that weight and keep your firm body
[Pre-Chorus] Ooh, this could be messy, and Ooh, I don't seem to mind Ooh, don't go telling everybody And overlook this supposed crime
[Chorus] We'll fast forward to a few years later And no one knows except the both of us And I have honored your request for silence And you've washed your hands clean of this
the part that resonated most for me with the bassnectar audio was when she talks about her abuser telling her he might want to marry her one day akin to lorrin telling the victim that he couldn't take marriage seriously until she was 25-26 a time frame to string the victim along, and a promise of being so special as to "potentially" warrant a monogamous relationship
it chills me to think of just how many girls her age he may have fed that narrative to, bang now with no commitments but you are oh so special
back to Alanis tho her not naming her abuser gives me a double-edged respect and frustration the lack of naming makes the song accessible to others who have gone through manipulation and abuse and that is a hugely empowering thing, and think that is the actual reason she keeps it this way
but it reflects on another issue with grooming it is often very difficult for victims to get to a headspace where they want to speak of the experience at all let alone do something to hurt the abuser in instances of grooming because there was so much uplifting and affirmations of themselves at the hands of the abuser that there is a risk of it all having been made up and not having anything to fall back on to this is especially embraced in the first line of the song "If it weren't for your maturity, none of this would have happened" she was 14 years old, with an older man telling her that his attraction to her was her "fault" due to her "maturity"
have known other women who were involved with men decades older than them at that age and they speak of the experience with a confidence that makes me want to say "wow you really internalized the manipultion" because they treat having been in that relationship as a factual indicator that they have been mature from a young age because that is what they were told over and over to justify playing with an old man's junk
and this plays back into my concerns that one recording is potentially indicative of a pattern of abuse since he also seems to have a method of delivery set up for it as well
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: Tantrika] 2
#26802470 - 07/03/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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so with what you supplied in discord with regards to Lorin's response to the situation really felt it of value to this topic to be able to highlight contrasts between his response and that of another
so Lorin made a statement that the community has been dissecting


and while critical of his statement with regards to "rumours" compared to what has been available for me to listen to would instead like to highlight the incredibly positive response on his part none of the above excuses what he has potentially done but they are really big steps to mitigating damage done to individuals and to extend in to helping people not impacted by him directly but impacted by similar circumstances
forgiveness and a sense of balance can only really be defined by the victims of the actions but it is also not my place to pass judgement or push for more than what they feel is sufficient
but would like to contrast this with Rowling's recent outbursts and actions

J.K. Rowling's statements and doubling down on them resulted in other artists raising awareness for the issues she spoke against but this is certainly not the same thing as recognizing actions as hurting people and seeking to make ammends she has actively opposed further efforts to educate her or foster empathy for those she hurts and continues to use her position of disproportionate power to punch down on a minority
it is my hope that history properly recognizes such responses as much so as the initial transgressions an individual's growth or lack thereof is important -- as much as prison is a corrupt and heinous system the theory of rehabilitating rather than eliminating members of society is sound and rehabilitation is a holistic process that covers a lot of things beyond just the transgressive behaviour
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viraldrome



Registered: 09/21/18
Posts: 4,085
Loc: Parts Unknown
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: Tantrika] 3
#26802617 - 07/04/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think its weird people who get passes. Mark Wahlberg committed unprovoked racial attacks on numerous minorities and no ever mentions it, Michael Richards aka Kramer dropped some N bombs on hecklers and never worked again.
I watch Roman Polanski movies and he drugged and raped a child, not even any maybe like MJ, he fucking did it. So it feels hypocritical of me not to watch a racist guys movies like Mel Gibson, or James Woods just because they say bigoted shit.
Also I kind of make the dead vs alive distinction, reading Lovecraft isn't making him rich as he's long dead, whereas buying Harry Potter makes JK even more money.
-------------------- Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: viraldrome]
#26802631 - 07/04/20 01:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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What happened with Phil Anselmo?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Posts: 69,597
Loc: The Inexpressible...
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: viraldrome]
#26802634 - 07/04/20 01:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its that Celebrity Privileges'. Its like White Privilege but much more blatant. Harvey Weinstein was guilty of it then he finally got caught and his privilage was done-for.
When you are rich, famous and an artist, you have the privilege to bend the rules of Ethics. But they eventually get in trouble later down the road....and its happening more and more it seems.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,151
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: viraldrome]
#26802677 - 07/04/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mark Wahlberg is hot and Kramer is not.
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Free time is the only time
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: CookieCrumbs] 1
#26802683 - 07/04/20 02:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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“The establishment” determines whether or not a lot of these people catch heat over shit they may or may not have said.. good little lap dogs get away with a whole lot more than ones who may struggle with sit/stay/roll over..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zZZz
jesus



Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#26802686 - 07/04/20 02:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Mark Wahlberg is hot and Kramer is not.
AHA I KNEW U WAS STRAIGHT HAD ME FOOLED
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Separating an artist from their work. [Re: zZZz] 2
#26802714 - 07/04/20 02:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Both Jimmy Page and Robert Plant got huge passes.
Iggy Pop is another.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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