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OfflineDJ Ed
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What are your thoughts on God * 3
    #26794371 - 06/30/20 01:44 PM (4 days, 4 hours ago)

So I was raised as Church of England. Mum and Dad sent me to Sunday school religiously (pardon the pun) every Sunday until I was about 14.

They never came.

And I never believed in God. I was always of the opinion of, show me photographs or it didn’t happen!

But then I found psychedelics. And I became convinced that there was something, though nothing related to religious dogma and control, but love and connectedness. Some kind of “other”, someplace out there “bigger”, “more magical”.

Mushroom use has more and more confirmed my pre-existing beliefs (and introduced new thoughts, such as “the void”, and “what if there is a god, but he is evil”). That mybe there is a “god”, but I don’t buy in to any religion, and I know our physical existence is meaningful, but only transient.

I have to be honest with you all; when I’m using mushrooms regularly, heavily, it gets even more c0nfusing and mixed up in my head. I start considering conspiracy theories, and philosophy, and all sorts of matrix-type stuff.

But I’d be interested to gauge your personal experiences with these kinds of thoughts, and how they have changed, if at all, through mushroom use, or any psychedelics use.

What are your thoughts on god, spirituality, and religion? How have these beliefs been affected through psychedelics use?

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 4
    #26794446 - 06/30/20 02:32 PM (4 days, 3 hours ago)

Hi DJ, I also had similar experiences as you describe on LSD and mushrooms, and I spent several years digging deeper and deeper into it, I eventually found some non-duality teachers like Rupert Spira, and Mooji, after listening to them intently for years and repeatedly running their words through the filter of my own experience, I am now in a position where I have no choice but to believe in 'God'.

But this is where words fail, because I do not 'believe' I experience, and there is no 'God' as a separate being somewhere out there in the universe.
There is no God watching down upon from the clouds, there is no God in some other dimension pulling strings, there is no God that has any interest in your traditions, your beliefs, or your words. There is no God making a list of all your sins and planning to punish you later down the road.

Gods position is here and now as consciousness itself. God/consciousness is like a blank screen on a T.V, it has no form therefore it can take all forms, a movie can play on the screen, characters can die, characters can be born, but the screen is never touched. Imagine a character in a movie searching for the screen he is being played on, it's the same as you looking for God right now. Where is God? Here and now. What prevents you from experiencing yourself as the screen right now? Simply your belief that you are a temporary finite being with a name. How do you experience God right now? Thoughts are the curtain, but if you try to stop thinking you'll think more, so instead, watch your thoughts, notice that they rise and fall in the mind, and that the mind is happening in you, not as you.

:heart:


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflineSocrateshroomS
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 2
    #26794447 - 06/30/20 02:32 PM (4 days, 3 hours ago)

Great topic! Like you, I was subjected to religious indoctrination from birth. It backfired in my case :hehehe:

I consider myself a "spiritual atheist" (and there's a great discussion to be had about what that constitutes).

I don't believe in God as presented by the "Judeo-Christian" religions and I believe modern day organized religions are tools of control rather than spiritual growth.

This is a really difficult thing for me to pinpoint. I don't believe in a God, but I do "worship" what I consider to be life-givers. I worship the Sun as the life-giver and, if there was to be a singular central god for me, it would be the Sun. I worship the moon as the illumination of darkness. I worship mushrooms as the illumination of the self.

Psychedelics haven't changed my belief in God. But they have changed the structure of how I form and justify belief.

Most importantly, philosophy is one of the greatest influences in my life and thus I derive a great portion of my beliefs from it. I graduated from a University that specializes, and is one of the top in the world, in analytical philosophy. This is not the kind of philosophy that influences me and it is a shame that this is the primary mode of philosophy taught in American Universities.

This may be controversial, since he has become a controversial figure, but I identify with a lot of what Jordan Peterson says on the topic of religion. He identifies the Logos as the ultimate divinity. He talks about the metaphorical value in biblical stories. And, most importantly, he believes that the central tenet of these religions is the infinite cycle of death and rebirth (psychologically speaking). And that is where I currently stand. I have some background beliefs from psychedelics and philosophy, but my main system is

I believe that, through the act of putting myself together in a way that actualizes my being to its most efficient, I constantly die and am reborn anew. And in doing so, I shed the worst parts of myself in the pursuit of transcending my suffering. If I can manage to reach the pinnacle of that pursuit, I believe that I can transcend my ego in a way that transcends the body at the moment of its expiration.


--------------------
“It is important to expect nothing, to take every experience, including the negative ones, as merely steps on the path, and to proceed.”

- Ram Dass



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OnlineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 2
    #26794449 - 06/30/20 02:32 PM (4 days, 3 hours ago)

Growing up my family never went to church but my mother would enforce a belief in a god. It wasn't until I was older I realized they meant the christian God.

  The concepts of a religious God are nonsensical. I would think about santa clause, he knows when you are sleeping and awake. He has a list of your wrongdoings and will punish you. I wondered what is the purpose of santa, it's to have children obey at the risk of reward or punishment.

  If we've made this for children is it that far fetched to believe it can be done to adults? I think not.

  I'm an atheist and as such I'm open to the possibility of there being something that we can call a god but I would never assume to understand it or know it's thoughts. That's very arrogant. 


This idea of something else being out there was always with me but hrough the use of psychedelics I feel as though it's true. But I honestly don't know. Maybe one day I might find out or not.



On spirituality. I'm not even sure I know what other people mean when they use that term.

To me the spiritual life is something physically within reach. Not some hookie pookie idea about your inner self. Feed the hungry, clothe the cold, teach the ignorant. Be kind and loving. The soul/spirits are not things we can even demonstrate. Just because during a trip we get funky feelings and thoughts doesn't really mean anything. And brings us no closer to proving their existence.


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Offlinetryptamine14
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26794544 - 06/30/20 03:17 PM (4 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
...I'm open to the possibility of there being something that we can call a god but I would never assume to understand it or know it's thoughts. That's very arrogant.




This.

My main beef with Christianity is how ignorantly presumptuous it is of even the "humblest" Christian to assert that they know the mind, will and intentions of a being unfathomable by its supposed nature.  They call it God but then reduce it to their own scale by "reading its mind" as far as their own lives are concerned.  Projecting puny humanity and small thoughts all over the place.
Hope that deosn't offend but true humility entails an admission of a certain level of not knowing.  The honest person prides himself on this honesty, even if it yields an uncomfortable position on the fence, as at best, an agnostic.


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #26794559 - 06/30/20 03:25 PM (4 days, 2 hours ago)

The here & now is the receptacle of the nondual reality that is the matrix of mind - where the knowing of the original wakefulness that is personal experience inevitably fires in the very moment of every experience. If this matrix of intrinsic awareness sounds like God to some people, then they are definitely on the right track.

It would be a mistake, however, to approach "Samantabhadra"/ The Supreme Source / God, as anything but a label for something that is quite beyond language and symbolism. If we look closely, it appears that this "God" has no kind of existence or definable attributes whatsoever and can only be spoken of- if at all-in terms of rigpa: luminosity, emptiness, and nonduality.

- Natural Perfection


--------------------
Homage to Vajrasattva!

In the space where all experience remains in potential,
emerges a grand display of nondual awareness and illusion,
the original spontaneity of our sovereign nature of mind:
Indivisible from that, unmoving, to that we bow down.


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/30/20 03:33 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #26794587 - 06/30/20 03:37 PM (4 days, 2 hours ago)

I love churches and art and architecture but it all seems atavistic or outdated to me. Some family values are the same but many things are truly tangled in a terrible knot of falsity, entitlement, and war.

the things I appreciate are probably the spoils of oppression, not the good ideas that led up to the formation of the religion, spirituality, and taking care of the planet (basically I accept the idea of taking custody of the garden of Eden).

thankfully I wandered into yoga and meditation before my teens, and I self taught a few things that make me more familiar with life every day. I have always studied life, ever since I could go to the library, I took out college books on biology, morphology, embryology, bacteria, etc. psychology and meditation make sense to me too as natural forms to be engaged in without any pretense or membership etc. Religion was always unnatural or discordant to me; entangled with languages that we do not speak and echoing in the politics of the pyramids.

When I have a religious experience these days, it means I have become very resonant and my brain gets all lit up like a wonderful tarot card - say TEMPERANCE XIV or THE MOON XVII or something more spectacular like the sparkling grain in rocks.

I don't take it too seriously, but enjoy the hell out of it.


--------------------


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26794821 - 06/30/20 05:17 PM (4 days, 47 minutes ago)

I enjoy the hell out of it too, redgreenvines, you feel like a soul brother :wonka:

In fact, thank you all, you’ve surpassed my expectations; I was hoping to start an intellectual debate,,and you’ve blown me away with your considered responses.

Shroomery, I really love you all. Psychedelics are my god, my saviour,  my guiding light.

There are so many responses that I want to make, and feel obliged to make, to your posts, but I’m a little stoned, so my sincerest apologies. I do appreciate and will pick up tomorrow.

But I have to comment on the Santa Claus comment: for me, that is the crux of religion - that God would never, in no capacity whatsoever, want to hurt his congregation. If you sin, you will burn in hell.

I don’t know if that’s always been a challenge to me, or the tipping point for what is plausible and what is bullshit meant to control.

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OnlineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26794842 - 06/30/20 05:28 PM (4 days, 36 minutes ago)

Someone somewhere took notice that we tend to be fearful of the unknown. When we perceive bad things happening to us we assume there must be a personal reason for it. I mean what the hell did I do to deserve this drought/flood/diseases etc. We now understand enough to know that's not the case.

Or when I hear about a plane crash landing or w/e and people say thank God no one was hurt, in their logic who put the plane is a that situation? God, no? Satan...

Any way I'm beginning to percolate. I digress.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26796285 - 07/01/20 07:50 AM (3 days, 10 hours ago)

Really interesting upbringing DJ Ed. I never knew! :takingnotes:

Taking mushrooms definitely makes me more connected to a Higher Power. I dont call it "God" thou as that word is connected to religions I dont trust in (at least not fully, i think they ate toxic in many ways). I like to call it Connecting with the Creator or with Creation. I believ "God" aka the Creator is more complex than an old man living in the sky. I believe thats a gross oversimplication or a misinterruption of a man thought to be "God" but really was an ascended spiritual master of some sort. That is my belief.

Connecting with Creation and/or The Creator is a powerful feeling. It makes u feel small yet loved at the same time. Its like a pleasant paradox and the feeling is so special and unique, I cant help but feel "blessed" while its occuring.

I used to be an Athesis then became an Agnostic, not believing in God at all to sorta believing a God might exist. Then after lots of shroom use and reading about Pleiadian Spirituality, i realized that God is the Creator and Creation is everything within the Multi-Verse. We are all from the Source aka Creation but in our own unique forms. Because Creation is Infinite and so is Creativity/Uniquness. And with every shroom trip, i reconnect to this Divine Creativity. Its a Beautiful Experience and is one of the main reasons why I loge shrooma so much :mushroom2: :heart: :shroomeryhead:


--------------------
"Conscious contains the ideas, the thoughts, the building blocks behind every reality. Sentience, on the other hand, is the creative force that animates reality and experiences all possible emotions and sensations within them. Consciousness creates reality, sentience experiences reality. Together, consciousness and sentience create the totality of Creation." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin
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OfflineNortherner
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26796372 - 07/01/20 09:01 AM (3 days, 9 hours ago)

I believe in an infinite multiverse with energy fluxing through the dimensions. I'm just a point of energy floating through that flux, forever destined to change form again and again.

Just my observation mixed with reasoning. Could just be my subjective perception deceiving me though.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineBigchillin
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Northerner]
    #26796634 - 07/01/20 11:50 AM (3 days, 6 hours ago)

Without expanding on this in great detail and admitting that I have only scratched the surface and have a seemingly never ending ways to go towards understanding this - I believe all religions are trying to capture and explain the blinding, loving "oneness" that we have experienced in some form, and that is what I believe "God" is (I don't have a clue).


--------------------
We are all one


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26796635 - 07/01/20 11:50 AM (3 days, 6 hours ago)

That thought exactly has been with me ever since my first high dose liberty cap experience, northerner!


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26796641 - 07/01/20 11:52 AM (3 days, 6 hours ago)

Beautiful written LC :thumbup:

Some key words in there; infinity, creation, multiverse, paradox.

I’m with you on all of that.

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OnlineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26796681 - 07/01/20 12:11 PM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

What you guys are describing is the universe. We have a word for this concept, universe. The word God has too much stigma/dogma to mean anything useful. We refer to some form of creator and resort to terms like spirituality, infinity, multiverse etc. These claims are just as bad as theist claims. We need more than just colorful language.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/01/20 12:15 PM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26796741 - 07/01/20 12:34 PM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

Agreed, but it is so difficult. It’s the dogma in particular that turned me off religion, before I could get hooked. I could never reconcile, even as a small child, the large number of other religions, with the one true god. I could start up another discussion if I was to say that I believe the roots of religion began to nurture through psychedelics use in our ancestors. And by inference, that religion’s god is the equivalent of describing the multiverse :peak:

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26796752 - 07/01/20 12:39 PM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

Long ago a man found a mushroom and ate it....

:manofapproval:


--------------------
Homage to Vajrasattva!

In the space where all experience remains in potential,
emerges a grand display of nondual awareness and illusion,
the original spontaneity of our sovereign nature of mind:
Indivisible from that, unmoving, to that we bow down.


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OnlineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26796802 - 07/01/20 01:17 PM (3 days, 4 hours ago)

The problem I see is that the the majority of believers do not see the blatant connection between the multiverse and their concept of God.

  Clearly religion has something to say on this matter but it trips over it self by claiming things much grander than the evidence provides. By literally making things up and creating dogma. A lot of religions demand that you give yourself mind and body. That's can be very dangerous.

But I do think there is a rich field of knowledge available but the question still stands from our inception; where do we look?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26796871 - 07/01/20 02:19 PM (3 days, 3 hours ago)

honesty is not too much to ask of oneself.

are there gaps?

yes, but is that a problem,
no, the gaps give me space where the light can play.


--------------------


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26797421 - 07/01/20 06:34 PM (2 days, 23 hours ago)

I find no "God" in the universe.  What I do find is a kind of pervasive consciousness, an awareness that I suppose could get mistaken for some all-knowing, all-controlling, omniscient being if you weren't using very good brushes to paint a picture of it.

When this awareness takes an interest in you you will know it, but it doesn't have a center or particular location.  It seems to arise everywhere all at once and there are no defenses against it. 

So again I suppose people would label it "God" - there have been many other labels attached to it as well.  :cookiemonster:


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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