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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Mixing bags
    #26745662 - 06/15/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone come up with a speedier method for mixing bags? I have seen the dryer without the door method, but I don't have space for a dryer. And I always mix the bags on the table in front of the flow hood since that is where I am anyways. But it takes "forever" to get the spawn to mix down to the bottom of the bags. And if its not mixed thoroughly then the substrate bags don't grow right and require another mix a week later. So I figure there has to be some trick? to getting the spawn to mix into the substrate bags quicker?


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26746424 - 06/15/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It just takes time. But what I do is I put spawn in the top of the bag tie off the bag with a reclosable cable tie. then I let the spawn go down one side of the bag until it is all about 3 inches thick and spread across the whole bag. Just keep flipping the bag and letting it go down the sides of the bag until it is mixed about 3 of 4 times and it should be mixed and I don't mix my sub before I put it in the bag so all my mixing is done in the bag after sterilization. I make my bags in about a minute for each bag that is the easy part but the mixing is the part I hate. I used to mix my sub in 5-gallon buckets with a paint mixer until I realize I was mixing twice now I save the time of mixing in buckets and just mix once when I put the spawn in.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Releasable-cable-50LBS-100pcs/dp/B004C4ZRIK/ref=sr_1_6?crid=20H74D33233LM&dchild=1&keywords=monoprice+cable+ties&qid=1592335150&sprefix=monoprice+cabl%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-6


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/16/20 01:25 PM)


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26793839 - 06/30/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

How often do you need to re-mix substrate bags because of spots of un-colonized sub? grrr.. Now that I am doing more bags per week this is fast becoming an issue of having to remix a lot of bags. And I can just imagine when I go to the next level of bags per week it will get out of control.

How much spawn per bag do you use? I have been using roughly 4 qts per 8 sub bags.

I know some people use millet with the Oats. And I have heard it doesn't make any difference or not enough of one or something from some? I get why they say they use the millet and oat mix but as I have heard conflicting things on that and just not seeing it would solve this issue I am talking about but here I ask.. ?


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26794166 - 06/30/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I mix 1 time when I spawn that is it. I don't use nearly as much spawn as you use and my bags are done in under 2 weeks. On average about 10 days. I use a 4 oz spoodle for 5-6 lb bags and an 8 oz spoodle for 10-12 lb bags. The key is to do bags once a week and then start putting your bags in to fruiting 3 weeks later. So the bags you are putting into fruiting today were spawned 3 weeks ago.

4 oz spoodle...

https://www.amazon.com/Value-PPG-4-S-Food-Portioner-Handle/dp/B077RPCFRK/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=4+oz+solid+spoodle&qid=1593533283&s=industrial&sr=1-7

8 oz spoodle...

https://www.amazon.com/Value-PPG-8-S-Food-Portioner-Handle/dp/B077RP2HTQ/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=8+oz+solid+spoodle&qid=1593533364&s=industrial&sr=1-10


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26794225 - 06/30/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I always fruit after 2 weeks not 3 weeks. Even if I leave the bags for another week there are still spots that don't fully colonize. For example Last weeks bags at least half of them had to be remixed this week. They will be fully colonized at the end of the week. But about half of them were fully colonized already. Just need to thicken up a bit. But that makes me think maybe the millet helps with the using less but not with sloppy mixing technique...


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26794308 - 06/30/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The millet will definitely help with using less because you have more inoculation points with millet. Have you checked what percent of moisture you have in your bags? Maybe they are slightly to damp and can not colonize. What is your sub made of? I was putting into fruiting after two weeks also and every once in awhile I was having a corner of a bag or two that was not colonized so just to keep things on track I moved to letting them colonize for 3 weeks it has not affected my harvest so I don't worry about it. My bags are usually done in 10 days but I hate those stragglers.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26794316 - 06/30/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

How long are you sterilizing for? are you sure you are not leaving a small amount of contamination in the bag?


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26794396 - 06/30/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Should be roughly 60%. I am using masters mix. When I go to remix them I do notice there isn't any grain spawn over there. Which is kinda why I am thinking my mixing technique needs tweaking. I am now sterilizing for 24 hours counting warm up time. Before I was sterilizing for 3 hours in the PC.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26794414 - 06/30/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Have you tested your moisture content? Or are you guessing? I understand you may not have the money for a flow meter at the moment but it will make things so much easier for you if you buy one when you can. You will get the same moisture content each and every time without any effort. I test my bags once a year and I have had 60% for over 3 years once I figured it out.

To be honest I don't know what is going on. You are using a high spawn amount, so if there was not another problem I don't see why they would not colonize without mixing twice. Even if there is no spawn there it should still colonize everything quickly with that amount of spawn.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26794453 - 06/30/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Are you mixing your sub prior to putting it in the bag or are you mixing the sub in the bag when you spawn? The only thing that I can see is that the soy will absorb the water quicker and the fuel pellets will take the water from soy hulls so what is not colonizing may be the soy that has not been mixed with the fuel pellets good enough to even out the moisture.


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Invisiblefungusmuncher
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26795717 - 06/30/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
I mix 1 time when I spawn that is it. I don't use nearly as much spawn as you use and my bags are done in under 2 weeks. On average about 10 days. I use a 4 oz spoodle for 5-6 lb bags and an 8 oz spoodle for 10-12 lb bags. The key is to do bags once a week and then start putting your bags in to fruiting 3 weeks later. So the bags you are putting into fruiting today were spawned 3 weeks ago.

4 oz spoodle...

https://www.amazon.com/Value-PPG-4-S-Food-Portioner-Handle/dp/B077RPCFRK/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=4+oz+solid+spoodle&qid=1593533283&s=industrial&sr=1-7

8 oz spoodle...

https://www.amazon.com/Value-PPG-8-S-Food-Portioner-Handle/dp/B077RP2HTQ/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=8+oz+solid+spoodle&qid=1593533364&s=industrial&sr=1-10




So this is what you use to get your colonized grain into your sawdust bags?  I thought I was going to have to pour it from bag to bag.  Do you just wipe it down with iso?


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: fungusmuncher]
    #26795854 - 06/30/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I would not trust ISO. I place the spoodle in an old spawn bag and seal it with a releasable cable tie. Which I use to seal all my bags anyway. So I have them everywhere. Then I either place it in my PC with my grain bags or I PC it separately for 20 mins at 15 psi.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Releasable-cable-50LBS-100pcs/dp/B004C4ZRIK/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2D8IES8KZ8ZDL&dchild=1&keywords=monoprice+cable+ties&qid=1593578868&s=industrial&sprefix=monoprice+cabl%2Cindustrial%2C174&sr=1-4

Pouring into each bag is a pain. Trust me the spoodle is much easier and worth its weight in gold for saving time and trouble.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/30/20 10:53 PM)


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26796237 - 07/01/20 04:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I just pour from bag to bag and it is easy for me... I just fold the bag back outward so that the inside sterile bag is where I pour from. Works like a charm. And then if I need to reclose the bag, I just fold it back up and retie it. I had seen gr0wer used to cut the bags so there would be a pour spout down below but I didn't want to sterilize scissors and I thought what if I needed to reclose the bag for any reason in the middle of working, so I tried folding the bag back and creating a pour spout that way and it works great for me.

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Have you tested your moisture content? Or are you guessing? I understand you may not have the money for a flow meter at the moment but it will make things so much easier for you if you buy one when you can. You will get the same moisture content each and every time without any effort. I test my bags once a year and I have had 60% for over 3 years once I figured it out.

To be honest I don't know what is going on. You are using a high spawn amount, so if there was not another problem I don't see why they would not colonize without mixing twice. Even if there is no spawn there it should still colonize everything quickly with that amount of spawn.




Tested as in doing the microwave method on the fuel pellets ? no. I am trying to get away with not doing that if I can. It seems that while the water content may be different from fuel pellet to fuel pellet brand that it only adds 1% or less to the whole mix and that is close enough for hand grenades and horseshoes. Unless I am not understanding something? I did weigh the water and everything else. And while I am not using a flow meter yet, I do use a pitcher marked with water lines and the bowls for measuring the pellets. So, it should be close enough to accurate every time. Eventually I would like to setup some automation.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu] * 1
    #26796678 - 07/01/20 10:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You are 100% correct on everything you are saying. Everyone has there own situation and has to work with what they can afford at the moment. I only offer my suggestions as a time and effort saver. For instance, with the spoodle I can have 10 bags spawned in under 10 minutes and it saves on spawn. It also causes the bags to finish colonizing around the same time because they are all spawned with the same amount of spawn. I do not have to make spawn as often so that is a huge time saver. $10 for the price of the spoodle is nothing when I think of the time and effort I save. I would easily spend that $10 many times over, paying for the spawn that I did not need to use.

Any time we save working is time added to our lives. Time is the most valuable thing we have so I try not to wast it.

When all is said and done and we are on our death bed. We will not be saying, I wish I had more money or anything else for that matter. We will be wishing for more time. So save time where you can and enjoy life.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26796698 - 07/01/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You surely can get away without testing your sub for moisture content. Especially if you do not have a flow meter. But I asked myself this question. How much am I loosing from each flush by not having the moisture content correct? I can't say I have ever answered this question with a number. But my yield has definitely increased. For me, it is a win-win. Less work more yield.


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26796957 - 07/01/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
You surely can get away without testing your sub for moisture content. Especially if you do not have a flow meter. But I asked myself this question. How much am I loosing from each flush by not having the moisture content correct? I can't say I have ever answered this question with a number. But my yield has definitely increased. For me, it is a win-win. Less work more yield.





Yes well.. one thing at a time.. I don't have one of those scales that measures less than a gram that a lot of people have. I just have a kitchen scale which are notoriously inaccurate.  My moisture content surely can't be that far off. Although, now that I am thinking of it more, I might not have tested any bags for sitting longer like I did at first after I had done a few moisture adjustments and so maybe I am just being overly anxious and not making adjustments after the fact. And I haven't heard anything but getting a bigger flush from measuring the pellets, so while it sounds like it is worth it.. surely it isn't my issue?


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26798970 - 07/02/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Sew, after all my hemmin' and hawin'  'cause I thought it was a another tissue, I broke out my trusty calculator and and checked my previous math and discovered for some reason my previous math was off some. I remember that day too and was frustrated at the calculator but I went with it. Sew, I decided to go all in and check water content and recalculate and see just how much a difference it all was going to be, since you was so adamant about it needing to be done anyways. Well, it was about an inch difference mark on the pitcher. I will find out the results in a few weeks... my heavy spawn rate is because I just have it so I might as well use it. And if it gets done quicker then its worth it.

But there is me eating humble pie.  :whiteflag:


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


Edited by seagu (07/02/20 12:02 PM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: seagu]
    #26799808 - 07/02/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have a slice or two of that humble pie every so often myself. I hope it solves your problem. I don't understand how you are doing it with a calculator. But if it works for you I won't argue the point. To be honest it has been so long since I had to figure out the water content. I don't remember how to do it.


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Invisiblefungusmuncher
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26799843 - 07/02/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
I have a slice or two of that humble pie every so often myself. I hope it solves your problem. I don't understand how you are doing it with a calculator. But if it works for you I won't argue the point. To be honest it has been so long since I had to figure out the water content. I don't remember how to do it.




Just tried to figure out the moisture content of my first oyster bags.  Started with 40.00 gram sample and ended up with 17.42 grams once bone dry.  Pretty sure that's putting my moisture content around 57%.  I've read you aim more towards 60-65% for oysters but it seems like if I add more it will be too wet.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Mixing bags [Re: fungusmuncher]
    #26799940 - 07/02/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It is much easier to just start off with 100 grams wet. It makes the math easy. If you have a 60% water content your dry weight should be 40 grams.

Here is something I wrote up a while ago...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26632628

I come up with 56.45 as your water content


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (07/02/20 06:06 PM)


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