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OfflineDJ Ed
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What are your thoughts on God * 3
    #26794371 - 06/30/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So I was raised as Church of England. Mum and Dad sent me to Sunday school religiously (pardon the pun) every Sunday until I was about 14.

They never came.

And I never believed in God. I was always of the opinion of, show me photographs or it didn’t happen!

But then I found psychedelics. And I became convinced that there was something, though nothing related to religious dogma and control, but love and connectedness. Some kind of “other”, someplace out there “bigger”, “more magical”.

Mushroom use has more and more confirmed my pre-existing beliefs (and introduced new thoughts, such as “the void”, and “what if there is a god, but he is evil”). That mybe there is a “god”, but I don’t buy in to any religion, and I know our physical existence is meaningful, but only transient.

I have to be honest with you all; when I’m using mushrooms regularly, heavily, it gets even more c0nfusing and mixed up in my head. I start considering conspiracy theories, and philosophy, and all sorts of matrix-type stuff.

But I’d be interested to gauge your personal experiences with these kinds of thoughts, and how they have changed, if at all, through mushroom use, or any psychedelics use.

What are your thoughts on god, spirituality, and religion? How have these beliefs been affected through psychedelics use?

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 4
    #26794446 - 06/30/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hi DJ, I also had similar experiences as you describe on LSD and mushrooms, and I spent several years digging deeper and deeper into it, I eventually found some non-duality teachers like Rupert Spira, and Mooji, after listening to them intently for years and repeatedly running their words through the filter of my own experience, I am now in a position where I have no choice but to believe in 'God'.

But this is where words fail, because I do not 'believe' I experience, and there is no 'God' as a separate being somewhere out there in the universe.
There is no God watching down upon from the clouds, there is no God in some other dimension pulling strings, there is no God that has any interest in your traditions, your beliefs, or your words. There is no God making a list of all your sins and planning to punish you later down the road.

Gods position is here and now as consciousness itself. God/consciousness is like a blank screen on a T.V, it has no form therefore it can take all forms, a movie can play on the screen, characters can die, characters can be born, but the screen is never touched. Imagine a character in a movie searching for the screen he is being played on, it's the same as you looking for God right now. Where is God? Here and now. What prevents you from experiencing yourself as the screen right now? Simply your belief that you are a temporary finite being with a name. How do you experience God right now? Thoughts are the curtain, but if you try to stop thinking you'll think more, so instead, watch your thoughts, notice that they rise and fall in the mind, and that the mind is happening in you, not as you.

:heart:


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 2
    #26794447 - 06/30/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Great topic! Like you, I was subjected to religious indoctrination from birth. It backfired in my case :hehehe:

I consider myself a "spiritual atheist" (and there's a great discussion to be had about what that constitutes).

I don't believe in God as presented by the "Judeo-Christian" religions and I believe modern day organized religions are tools of control rather than spiritual growth.

This is a really difficult thing for me to pinpoint. I don't believe in a God, but I do "worship" what I consider to be life-givers. I worship the Sun as the life-giver and, if there was to be a singular central god for me, it would be the Sun. I worship the moon as the illumination of darkness. I worship mushrooms as the illumination of the self.

Psychedelics haven't changed my belief in God. But they have changed the structure of how I form and justify belief.

Most importantly, philosophy is one of the greatest influences in my life and thus I derive a great portion of my beliefs from it. I graduated from a University that specializes, and is one of the top in the world, in analytical philosophy. This is not the kind of philosophy that influences me and it is a shame that this is the primary mode of philosophy taught in American Universities.

This may be controversial, since he has become a controversial figure, but I identify with a lot of what Jordan Peterson says on the topic of religion. He identifies the Logos as the ultimate divinity. He talks about the metaphorical value in biblical stories. And, most importantly, he believes that the central tenet of these religions is the infinite cycle of death and rebirth (psychologically speaking). And that is where I currently stand. I have some background beliefs from psychedelics and philosophy, but my main system is

I believe that, through the act of putting myself together in a way that actualizes my being to its most efficient, I constantly die and am reborn anew. And in doing so, I shed the worst parts of myself in the pursuit of transcending my suffering. If I can manage to reach the pinnacle of that pursuit, I believe that I can transcend my ego in a way that transcends the body at the moment of its expiration.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 2
    #26794449 - 06/30/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Growing up my family never went to church but my mother would enforce a belief in a god. It wasn't until I was older I realized they meant the christian God.

  The concepts of a religious God are nonsensical. I would think about santa clause, he knows when you are sleeping and awake. He has a list of your wrongdoings and will punish you. I wondered what is the purpose of santa, it's to have children obey at the risk of reward or punishment.

  If we've made this for children is it that far fetched to believe it can be done to adults? I think not.

  I'm an atheist and as such I'm open to the possibility of there being something that we can call a god but I would never assume to understand it or know it's thoughts. That's very arrogant. 


This idea of something else being out there was always with me but hrough the use of psychedelics I feel as though it's true. But I honestly don't know. Maybe one day I might find out or not.



On spirituality. I'm not even sure I know what other people mean when they use that term.

To me the spiritual life is something physically within reach. Not some hookie pookie idea about your inner self. Feed the hungry, clothe the cold, teach the ignorant. Be kind and loving. The soul/spirits are not things we can even demonstrate. Just because during a trip we get funky feelings and thoughts doesn't really mean anything. And brings us no closer to proving their existence.


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Offlinetryptamine14
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26794544 - 06/30/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
...I'm open to the possibility of there being something that we can call a god but I would never assume to understand it or know it's thoughts. That's very arrogant.




This.

My main beef with Christianity is how ignorantly presumptuous it is of even the "humblest" Christian to assert that they know the mind, will and intentions of a being unfathomable by its supposed nature.  They call it God but then reduce it to their own scale by "reading its mind" as far as their own lives are concerned.  Projecting puny humanity and small thoughts all over the place.
Hope that deosn't offend but true humility entails an admission of a certain level of not knowing.  The honest person prides himself on this honesty, even if it yields an uncomfortable position on the fence, as at best, an agnostic.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #26794559 - 06/30/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The here & now is the receptacle of the nondual reality that is the matrix of mind - where the knowing of the original wakefulness that is personal experience inevitably fires in the very moment of every experience. If this matrix of intrinsic awareness sounds like God to some people, then they are definitely on the right track.

It would be a mistake, however, to approach "Samantabhadra"/ The Supreme Source / God, as anything but a label for something that is quite beyond language and symbolism. If we look closely, it appears that this "God" has no kind of existence or definable attributes whatsoever and can only be spoken of- if at all-in terms of rigpa: luminosity, emptiness, and nonduality.

- Natural Perfection


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/30/20 01:33 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #26794587 - 06/30/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I love churches and art and architecture but it all seems atavistic or outdated to me. Some family values are the same but many things are truly tangled in a terrible knot of falsity, entitlement, and war.

the things I appreciate are probably the spoils of oppression, not the good ideas that led up to the formation of the religion, spirituality, and taking care of the planet (basically I accept the idea of taking custody of the garden of Eden).

thankfully I wandered into yoga and meditation before my teens, and I self taught a few things that make me more familiar with life every day. I have always studied life, ever since I could go to the library, I took out college books on biology, morphology, embryology, bacteria, etc. psychology and meditation make sense to me too as natural forms to be engaged in without any pretense or membership etc. Religion was always unnatural or discordant to me; entangled with languages that we do not speak and echoing in the politics of the pyramids.

When I have a religious experience these days, it means I have become very resonant and my brain gets all lit up like a wonderful tarot card - say TEMPERANCE XIV or THE MOON XVII or something more spectacular like the sparkling grain in rocks.

I don't take it too seriously, but enjoy the hell out of it.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26794821 - 06/30/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I enjoy the hell out of it too, redgreenvines, you feel like a soul brother :wonka:

In fact, thank you all, you’ve surpassed my expectations; I was hoping to start an intellectual debate,,and you’ve blown me away with your considered responses.

Shroomery, I really love you all. Psychedelics are my god, my saviour,  my guiding light.

There are so many responses that I want to make, and feel obliged to make, to your posts, but I’m a little stoned, so my sincerest apologies. I do appreciate and will pick up tomorrow.

But I have to comment on the Santa Claus comment: for me, that is the crux of religion - that God would never, in no capacity whatsoever, want to hurt his congregation. If you sin, you will burn in hell.

I don’t know if that’s always been a challenge to me, or the tipping point for what is plausible and what is bullshit meant to control.

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26794842 - 06/30/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Someone somewhere took notice that we tend to be fearful of the unknown. When we perceive bad things happening to us we assume there must be a personal reason for it. I mean what the hell did I do to deserve this drought/flood/diseases etc. We now understand enough to know that's not the case.

Or when I hear about a plane crash landing or w/e and people say thank God no one was hurt, in their logic who put the plane is a that situation? God, no? Satan...

Any way I'm beginning to percolate. I digress.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26796285 - 07/01/20 05:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Really interesting upbringing DJ Ed. I never knew! :takingnotes:

Taking mushrooms definitely makes me more connected to a Higher Power. I dont call it "God" thou as that word is connected to religions I dont trust in (at least not fully, i think they ate toxic in many ways). I like to call it Connecting with the Creator or with Creation. I believ "God" aka the Creator is more complex than an old man living in the sky. I believe thats a gross oversimplication or a misinterruption of a man thought to be "God" but really was an ascended spiritual master of some sort. That is my belief.

Connecting with Creation and/or The Creator is a powerful feeling. It makes u feel small yet loved at the same time. Its like a pleasant paradox and the feeling is so special and unique, I cant help but feel "blessed" while its occuring.

I used to be an Athesis then became an Agnostic, not believing in God at all to sorta believing a God might exist. Then after lots of shroom use and reading about Pleiadian Spirituality, i realized that God is the Creator and Creation is everything within the Multi-Verse. We are all from the Source aka Creation but in our own unique forms. Because Creation is Infinite and so is Creativity/Uniquness. And with every shroom trip, i reconnect to this Divine Creativity. Its a Beautiful Experience and is one of the main reasons why I loge shrooma so much :mushroom2: :heart: :shroomeryhead:


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26796372 - 07/01/20 07:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I believe in an infinite multiverse with energy fluxing through the dimensions. I'm just a point of energy floating through that flux, forever destined to change form again and again.

Just my observation mixed with reasoning. Could just be my subjective perception deceiving me though.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineBigchillin
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Northerner]
    #26796634 - 07/01/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Without expanding on this in great detail and admitting that I have only scratched the surface and have a seemingly never ending ways to go towards understanding this - I believe all religions are trying to capture and explain the blinding, loving "oneness" that we have experienced in some form, and that is what I believe "God" is (I don't have a clue).


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26796635 - 07/01/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That thought exactly has been with me ever since my first high dose liberty cap experience, northerner!


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26796641 - 07/01/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Beautiful written LC :thumbup:

Some key words in there; infinity, creation, multiverse, paradox.

I’m with you on all of that.

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26796681 - 07/01/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

What you guys are describing is the universe. We have a word for this concept, universe. The word God has too much stigma/dogma to mean anything useful. We refer to some form of creator and resort to terms like spirituality, infinity, multiverse etc. These claims are just as bad as theist claims. We need more than just colorful language.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/01/20 10:15 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26796741 - 07/01/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Agreed, but it is so difficult. It’s the dogma in particular that turned me off religion, before I could get hooked. I could never reconcile, even as a small child, the large number of other religions, with the one true god. I could start up another discussion if I was to say that I believe the roots of religion began to nurture through psychedelics use in our ancestors. And by inference, that religion’s god is the equivalent of describing the multiverse :peak:

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26796752 - 07/01/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Long ago a man found a mushroom and ate it....

:manofapproval:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26796802 - 07/01/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The problem I see is that the the majority of believers do not see the blatant connection between the multiverse and their concept of God.

  Clearly religion has something to say on this matter but it trips over it self by claiming things much grander than the evidence provides. By literally making things up and creating dogma. A lot of religions demand that you give yourself mind and body. That's can be very dangerous.

But I do think there is a rich field of knowledge available but the question still stands from our inception; where do we look?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26796871 - 07/01/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

honesty is not too much to ask of oneself.

are there gaps?

yes, but is that a problem,
no, the gaps give me space where the light can play.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26797421 - 07/01/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I find no "God" in the universe.  What I do find is a kind of pervasive consciousness, an awareness that I suppose could get mistaken for some all-knowing, all-controlling, omniscient being if you weren't using very good brushes to paint a picture of it.

When this awareness takes an interest in you you will know it, but it doesn't have a center or particular location.  It seems to arise everywhere all at once and there are no defenses against it. 

So again I suppose people would label it "God" - there have been many other labels attached to it as well.  :cookiemonster:


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26797482 - 07/01/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I find that it translates as awareness and space mostly


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26798320 - 07/02/20 02:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I believe God doesn't exist. LSD converted me to atheism, and ever since then I've had a harder and harder time understanding how people can believe in something like that. It just seems so ridiculous to me now, especially all the other beliefs that go along with it, like the stuff in the bible and all that. Like, I understand how appealing it can be, and how comforting, and how it can help people, but it just blows my mind that anyone actually believes in that stuff. But then again, people have been believing in superstitious stuff for millions of years, so maybe it shouldn't be all that surprising.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26798483 - 07/02/20 04:04 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Had to chuckle at this morning’s news; the Archbishop of Canterbury wants to start a debate on whether it is still appropriate to consider Jesus was white.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for equality, but when today’s liberals get into the realms of “our imaginary friend” was not white. So what colour was he? What nationality was “the Holy Ghost”, you know the one, that guy who shagged Mary without her losing her virginity!

Nope, the dogma has always turned me off.

I share Primal’s views....

Take care all
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26798660 - 07/02/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Great post Dj:skol:

I too was brought up very religious. Went and did the whole catechism thing and attended church afterward. This was so long ago though I've forgotten so much. It just never felt authentic to me. It always felt as if i was being read a fairytale.

Theyre preaching things that have zero proof and stick behind it like there is no other way.. which even at a younger age it became unappealing. I was pretty open minded, even at a younger age. Never full of myself like I knew it all.. but would stand my ground on things unless you were extemely persuasive to make me jump ship to something else.

I'm not sure WHAT I beleive in all honesty. I'm not going to sit here and say that there is not God, because thats just as arrogant as saying there is a God. I do know, there is something beautiful. Maybe its just consciousness itself. But for me to pray or worship a God is not something I practice. Hey, maybe things will change. But I doubt it.

But I'm always integrating change into my life. So I'm not going to judge the future and just take it as it comes. But, absolutely know there is something beautiful out there. And I just hope there's something more to experience, after death.


--------------------
:greyalien:




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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26798751 - 07/02/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I loved reading everyone's posts :smile:

God is this exact moment, right here right now.  That's what God is and when I allow my mind to stray from god with worry and fear I suffer.  When I trust in God I find peace. 

It is comforting to know we all are cycled through this life and world the same way as one another.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Psicomb]
    #26798757 - 07/02/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I like the ideas about "God" presented here:



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26798783 - 07/02/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vibe_Enthusiast said:
...
But I'm always integrating change into my life. So I'm not going to judge the future and just take it as it comes
...




cool way of putting it too!


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26798950 - 07/02/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If you see two kids beating up another kid what do you do? Heaven stays silent and sorts it out "after" but we understand the suffering so most of us would step in.


  Also what's more likely?  That the laws of physics where suspended for an immaculate conception or that a young Jewish woman was lying about her pregnancy? The whole series of books from the tora, Bible to Koran are full of things that dont add up.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26799066 - 07/02/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Beautifully put, vibe_enthusiast :thumbup:


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom] * 2
    #26799067 - 07/02/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I’m starting to appreciate Jordan Peterson more and more these days, nice link :thumbup:


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26799177 - 07/02/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

oh, oh...

there is a real concern that children of the holocaust, (those who come from parents who have survived internment rape and abuse during the holocaust), themselves live in the shadow of that experience, and are in some way bent in their understanding of the world, and bent in their experience of events, both blind and oversensitive to things that seem ordinary to others.

I also have a concern that anyone exposed to a bible or koran lives in the shadow of that set of experiences.

When JP can transcend it and talk about cleaning up one's room with conviction then - yeah, I like him, otherwise, lobsters are good eating when you can get 'em.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26799183 - 07/02/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Interestingly, he has some talks about shamanism/psychedelics, such as below:



I find his ideas very valuable and incredibly well articulated, even if I don't agree with all of them. But his psychological work is a big influence on me and I have made as much progress in bettering myself from his work as I have from psychedelics.

Back to the topic at hand, it feels like "God" can be a placeholder for that which is outside of our understanding. God is the mystery in life and is ever-shifting. As we discover more, God changes and manifests as the new mysteries brought about by our new found knowledge. That's why, for me, if there was a "God" i'd say it was the psychedelic mushroom.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26799192 - 07/02/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
oh, oh...

there is a real concern that children of the holocaust, (those who come from parents who have survived internment rape and abuse during the holocaust), themselves live in the shadow of that experience, and are in some way bent in their understanding of the world, and bent in their experience of events, both blind and oversensitive to things that seem ordinary to others.

I also have a concern that anyone exposed to a bible or koran lives in the shadow of that set of experiences.

When JP can transcend it and talk about cleaning up one's room with conviction then - yeah, I like him, otherwise, lobsters are good eating when you can get 'em.




You don't believe that those texts, at least from a metaphorical perspective, contain some pertinent information?


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26799213 - 07/02/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The golden rule: do onto others as you'd have them do to you.


That's a golden nugget swimming in a cesspool of tyrant ideals.

But the Bible is NOT the first text to have it...so very little value in these holy books.


Jordan Peterson seems like he believes in the Bible which is one red flag for me. Also, fucking lobsters lol omg.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/02/20 12:25 PM)


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799236 - 07/02/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm going to watch that video and base my judgement not upon the man but on the context of what he is saying. Because I can be biased against him.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799238 - 07/02/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
The golden rule: do onto others as you'd have them do to you.


That's a golden nugget swimming in a cesspool of tyrant ideals.

But the Bible is NOT the first text to have it...so very little value in these holy books.


Jordan Peterson seems like he believes in the Bible which is one red flag for me. Also, fucking lobsters lol omg.




But why dismiss someone because they believe in the bible? Perhaps you just disagree with much of what he says on the content of what he is saying, which is valid. However, I don't think that believing in the bible should invalidate you as a person, or your intellect, even if you believe some of the more outdated stuff that's in there.

Also I don't think the only piece of information in these books is the "golden rule". I was a militant atheist when I was younger so I'm no fan of the bible as dogma but I like how Peterson interprets the stories through an almost "Jungian" lens.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799241 - 07/02/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I'm going to watch that video and base my judgement not upon the man but on the context of what he is saying. Because I can be biased against him.




:thumbup: I'd like to hear your opinion. Bias works both way and I'll admit that, although I do not share in his religious views, I do have a positive bias towards his work and that may paint some of what he says as more profound than it actually is.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799261 - 07/02/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I have been pursuing a perspective on that using psychedelics for 6 years now. I'm not certain of anything as it's not my place to state something as matter-of-fact so here are my thoughts :

Idea 1 :Existence is obviously some fucky infinite feed back loop forever propagating itself, churning and swirling all over the place. Being that, "God" is just a part of the probabilities present in the infinite and does what it does as all things do. Humans turn O2 into CO2, Plants CO2 into O2, and God manages the harder stuff.

Idea 2 :This is an older idea, that there's only one thing : God. I have abandoned this idea because it's painful to think about the various implications of there being only one thing and all the questions that arise from that.

These are my thoughts, I'm starting to give up on trying to make sense of things like this though.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799317 - 07/02/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

After watching this particular video I have to say I agree with him here but I do think this is more of a psychedelics 101. What I mean is that most people here that have been hitting psychedelics hard would already know and understand what Jordan is saying here. It was not really what he thinks but more of what facts are known.


  And the fact that Jordan holds the Bible in some regard doesn't make me dislike him or think he doesn't have good points but it does make me weary of his ideas. When I do listen to him I feel I have to pay extra attention. He had his 12 step book which was full of half baked concepts about life, relationships etc. But in this video he doesn't present too many opinions just facts.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799335 - 07/02/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
After watching this particular video I have to say I agree with him here but I do think this is more of a psychedelics 101. What I mean is that most people here that have been hitting psychedelics hard would already know and understand what Jordan is saying here. It was not really what he thinks but more of what facts are known.


  And the fact that Jordan holds the Bible in some regard doesn't make me dislike him or think he doesn't have good points but it does make me weary of his ideas. When I do listen to him I feel I have to pay extra attention. He had his 12 step book which was full of half baked concepts about life, relationships etc. But in this video he doesn't present too many opinions just facts.




Yes, that is just one video that he has talking about the subject. He has others which go a little more in depth into the experience and its consequences (as you've correctly stated, this was more of a fact dump with some interesting psychologically postulations here and there).

And I most definitely don't go to him for my knowledge in psychedelics, that's what experimentation and this community is for. I just thought it interesting that a man like him, someone many would consider very "straight laced" has seemingly unbiased and intellectual views of things that most bible readers would call sacrilege.

His ideas obviously come from his own causal history, just as yours and mine do. But I think he transcends that limitation enough to have some very wise words to say. But I can see how some of his concepts can be considered "half-baked". I just think his work is interesting.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26799584 - 07/02/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

there is truth in the bible and truth in the holocaust as well, but these are different volumes of stuff that a person can be loaded down with.

I do not have any replacement of any single channel that can become central to a society, except to encourage people to be open to other channels as well, and see what is going on among the subscribers to each channel, and determine for yourself how much you want to be defined by their notions.

A channel that seems to take a lot of time should be considered critically as a controlling agency. One needs to draw their own limits on how far a channel can rule one's life.


By the way, Jordan P. has completely recovered from his benzo diazepam addiction using a medical vacation for a novel Russian medical coma induction, which has worked for opium addicts - they do not consciously experience withdrawal - and some awaken healed while others do not awaken.

This means he has voluntarily awakened from the dead; and that most certainly will not be the end of his fame.


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Edited by redgreenvines (07/02/20 03:08 PM)


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26799633 - 07/02/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

We covered some truths in the Bible. Not the Holocaust but do elaborate.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799668 - 07/02/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This thread is getting really interesting. But it would seem my limited knowledge of Jordan Peterson is just that, limited. No offence intended to anyone. He just seems to be coming up a lot in my YouTube feed, so you do get drawn in. I’ve liked what he has to say so far, maybe that opinion will change.

Then again, there are people, famous people, that I’ve taken an instant dislike to. Like Chris Martin out of Coldplay. Despised him for years, though had to admit I liked a lot of his music. Then saw Coldplay at a festival and was bowled over. Whatever you think of a person, their views, what they say in public, can fundamentally change when you meet them in person, and interact with them as a person, not a persona.

Mush love all
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--------------------
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom] * 1
    #26799706 - 07/02/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would have loved having Peterson as a prof. in college. 

And I agree, A lot of religious texts, films, books, myths, stories etc contain valuable timeless wisdom , practical wisdom, about the human condition & living.  If one can thinking operationally vs concrete you can potentially derive much benefit from religion - without subjugating yourself to another man’s rule, or dogmatism.  Similes., metaphor, allegory, parables, etc.  Beautiful & terrifyingly beautiful stuff stuff.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26799719 - 07/02/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but there are also non-religious texts that have even more of that stuff than the religious texts. Not to downplay the good messages or potential good effects of the religious texts, just wanted to mention.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: nooneman]
    #26799790 - 07/02/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It’s spread all over religion & nonreligious stuff. But yeah :thumbup:


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26799836 - 07/02/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think the real issue is that people tend to dive in so deep they loose the ability to think for themselves and have to rely on old text for common sense problems.

  When you believe God is on your side you can justify any action or explanation. Which is not good reasoning skills. I have no doubt that good can be derived from the Bible but then again we know a decent amount of history when it comes to the Bible and it's actual real life uses. Not really used for spirituality but as a tool to command the bodies and minds of it's followers. We can easily weed out the wisdom and have a solid 50 page manual.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799999 - 07/02/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I think the real issue is that people tend to dive in so deep they loose the ability to think for themselves and have to rely on old text for common sense problems.

  When you believe God is on your side you can justify any action or explanation. Which is not good reasoning skills. I have no doubt that good can be derived from the Bible but then again we know a decent amount of history when it comes to the Bible and it's actual real life uses. Not really used for spirituality but as a tool to command the bodies and minds of it's followers. We can easily weed out the wisdom and have a solid 50 page manual.




Agreed, although, with various interpretations, I think it might be a bit longer than 50 pages.

But do we blame the Bible for what we’ve done to it or do we blame ourselves? There are some evil cult leaders who used mushrooms as a tool to “communicate” with evil. If all you saw was those types, it would be easy to regard mushrooms as a catalyst for evil.

And I don’t even think the Bible has much in the way of “spirituality” I think it has more practical wisdom, when interpreted metaphorically, about the common patterns of experience through time (suffering, how the heroes journey applies to our lives, the infinite cycle of psychological death and rebirth, etc). But there are some outdated bits, obviously. I mean Aristotle is so highly regarded but no one would praise him for his views on slavery.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26800008 - 07/02/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
there is truth in the bible and truth in the holocaust as well, but these are different volumes of stuff that a person can be loaded down with.

I do not have any replacement of any single channel that can become central to a society, except to encourage people to be open to other channels as well, and see what is going on among the subscribers to each channel, and determine for yourself how much you want to be defined by their notions.

A channel that seems to take a lot of time should be considered critically as a controlling agency. One needs to draw their own limits on how far a channel can rule one's life.


By the way, Jordan P. has completely recovered from his benzo diazepam addiction using a medical vacation for a novel Russian medical coma induction, which has worked for opium addicts - they do not consciously experience withdrawal - and some awaken healed while others do not awaken.

This means he has voluntarily awakened from the dead; and that most certainly will not be the end of his fame.




Agreed and eloquently put. Openness of the mind matters most.

And good to hear he’s recovered, I know he was struggling with his wife’s diagnosis. Interesting how he has risen from the ashes like a Phoenix. I like how that analogy (which obviously isn’t his but he references a lot) can be applied to the psychedelic experience.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26800207 - 07/02/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Out dated bits? That's a HUGE understatement. More like laughable errors made by men who clearly didn't know any better. Practical wisdom? Hmm like what? Because we discussed the golden rule and that bit of wisdom is lost in totalitarian garbage.

  When a Tek is released should you attempt to interpret it? Or follow it? If it says to pressure cook for 45min at 15psi is there much to interpret?


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800244 - 07/02/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Our attitudes towards things like the Bible or mushrooms are so revealing, aren’t they?  I think you are oversimplifying it.  Why should a book upset u so much?
RGV & SS,

I’m really glad Peterson’s well again :thumbup:  He’s got a keen eye & good discernment & articulates ideas n concepts well - all sorely needed in our world where sanity, morality, and wisdom‘s voice is saturated in a field of shit & illusion.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26800328 - 07/02/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It seems simple. But i will drop it since i do get heated.


  I originally had thought i read that Jordon was in rehab for alcohol. Those benzos are damn addictive as well. I had not really heard anything since hearing he had gone in. He probably had easy access to them too.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800369 - 07/02/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

All good man.  Today it was you, tomorrow it’s me :thumbup:


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800556 - 07/03/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone ever questioned how the Roman Catholic Church became one of the world’s largest religions? Well at the time when Jesus was around, the Roman Empire was huge. But hey, before you know it, head office is in The Vatican. That is some quantum leap.

A problem with religious texts is how they get translated and re-translated, each time the current political establishment like bias is applied, and after a few thousand years of these “Chinese Whispers”, you get a religious manual of dogma and control....

Jesus loves you, but if you stray from our chosen path, you will burn in hell for eternity. Ok, no pressure then.......

❤️
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--------------------
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26800573 - 07/03/20 12:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You also have to remember that people seized the opportunity of a population that was primed for that sort of thinking. The Christmas date was adopted around that time since they already celebrated the winter solstice? I'd have to look that up to be sure. But it was probably rather easy to just merg the cultures.

  Translations always pose problems. Any kind of information transfer is suspectable to manipulation. This is why logical reasoning for things is important.

  You know I love my wife but I'm also absolutely terrified if I step out of line. She threatens me with eternal torment if I for example have a lustful thought about another body be it male or female. She has also made me take my loving dog to a tall hill to sacrifice it's life to only have me stop at the last moment. She does this to show my neighbors how dedicated I am to her. Love it's a wild thing.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800617 - 07/03/20 01:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

All that’s got to do with man’s ignorance, not with what the word God really points to - the great perfection of it all. (Yet another pointer to) that’s all words can do.  Gotta see past it.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26801021 - 07/03/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A lot of the posts are responding to "What are you thoughts on religion". Not God, as in the title.


I don't believe in religion but I absolutely believe in God. To me, they're two separate things. I hate when people say they don't believe in God, and then go on to debunk religion. Fine, you don't like priests, bible, etc.. so that means there's no God?

God is the thing we can never understand. People throughout history have been arrogant, thinking they have it all figured out. The closest you'll ever come to understanding God is when you stop trying to figure it out. Accept that the whole concept is way beyond what a human brain can comprehend. Appreciate the wonder of nature. That's where God is.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26801115 - 07/03/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
Out dated bits? That's a HUGE understatement. More like laughable errors made by men who clearly didn't know any better. Practical wisdom? Hmm like what? Because we discussed the golden rule and that bit of wisdom is lost in totalitarian garbage.

  When a Tek is released should you attempt to interpret it? Or follow it? If it says to pressure cook for 45min at 15psi is there much to interpret?




You're fixed on the golden rule being the only thing one can learn from these texts. Many stories teach valuable lessons about necessary sacrifice, delaying gratification, the nature of evil, etc. I think it's a little different than TEKs. The bible is not something to follow exactly. It's a collection of stories that have a message. A TEK doesn't have an underlying message, its a literal step by step guide on how to.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Our attitudes towards things like the Bible or mushrooms are so revealing, aren’t they?  I think you are oversimplifying it.  Why should a book upset u so much?
RGV & SS,

I’m really glad Peterson’s well again :thumbup:  He’s got a keen eye & good discernment & articulates ideas n concepts well - all sorely needed in our world where sanity, morality, and wisdom‘s voice is saturated in a field of shit & illusion.




Definitely. Perspective is a very strange beast.

I'm glad others like to discuss Peterson and his work. He put himself in a bad position by getting political and going after the trans movement. And I think that derailed his message, which was one of real psychological value: Take on the maximum level of responsibility to make your suffering worthwhile.

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
It seems simple. But i will drop it since i do get heated.


  I originally had thought i read that Jordon was in rehab for alcohol. Those benzos are damn addictive as well. I had not really heard anything since hearing he had gone in. He probably had easy access to them too.




He was addicted to alcohol and cigarettes when he was younger and he talks about how he needed to overcome those to become who he is today.

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Has anyone ever questioned how the Roman Catholic Church became one of the world’s largest religions? Well at the time when Jesus was around, the Roman Empire was huge. But hey, before you know it, head office is in The Vatican. That is some quantum leap.

A problem with religious texts is how they get translated and re-translated, each time the current political establishment like bias is applied, and after a few thousand years of these “Chinese Whispers”, you get a religious manual of dogma and control....

Jesus loves you, but if you stray from our chosen path, you will burn in hell for eternity. Ok, no pressure then.......

❤️
DJ Ed




I agree. If someone took Terrence Mckenna's Food of the Gods book and made a cult around it, that wouldn't discount the value of the book independent of the cult. Believe me, I have no love for organized religion, and even less for roman catholicism. But I believe that there is much to learn from our history and I believe that, in some way, the bible is an important part of human history (I mean, just like you said, it has changed the trajectory of time, in and of itself).

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
You also have to remember that people seized the opportunity of a population that was primed for that sort of thinking. The Christmas date was adopted around that time since they already celebrated the winter solstice? I'd have to look that up to be sure. But it was probably rather easy to just merg the cultures.

  Translations always pose problems. Any kind of information transfer is suspectable to manipulation. This is why logical reasoning for things is important.

  You know I love my wife but I'm also absolutely terrified if I step out of line. She threatens me with eternal torment if I for example have a lustful thought about another body be it male or female. She has also made me take my loving dog to a tall hill to sacrifice it's life to only have me stop at the last moment. She does this to show my neighbors how dedicated I am to her. Love it's a wild thing.




Interpretations are just as dangerous as translations. So the bible was interpreted and used as a control mechanism. Religion was established around it, constricting the common person ever more tightly.

But your last statement is interesting. Perhaps the "eternal torment" she threatens you for lusting after another is a metaphor for how instant gratification can cause permanent suffering, and how delaying gratification can lead to meaning. And sacrificing your dog on a hill to stop at the last moment? Maybe it's a lesson in the brutal sacrifices required in life.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
All that’s got to do with man’s ignorance, not with what the word God really points to - the great perfection of it all. (Yet another pointer to) that’s all words can do.  Gotta see past it.




Absolutely. Man sees a couple feet in front of him (metaphorically speaking). Kind of odd to think that such creatures can adequately interpret the cosmic or divine nature.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26801135 - 07/03/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

oh ye of little faith, a man can see beyond the stars if he holds still.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26801145 - 07/03/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
oh ye of little faith, a man can see beyond the stars if he holds still.




I agree, but I think it still holds true that the average person can't see much beyond their primal need to consume, shit and fuck.

But I feel there is a large minority that strives to see beyond. We see that in literature, music, certain culture, spirituality and psychedelic exploration.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26801168 - 07/03/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

what follows is what i truly believe to be fact:

The God of the bible is real and the bible is perfect and the only holy things on earth are whatever translations are necessary for understanding.

god does not require you to speak a specific language (islam, judaism, catholicism, some anabaptists), he simply asks that you hear his words so you can reach the understanding he wants you to have of his love and his greatness and of his justice.

for some people a good pastor can really help with learning about god through his word. however. most pastors and priests are presenting things that are not the bible as if their own authority is infallible (the bible says otherwise), they will extrapolate and make statements about existence instead of reading. Take for instance, a pastor who gives a lesson on the subject of love and then reads various verses from all over the bible to then create a weird idea of what love is, because he has read the bible out of context.

what one needs in order to learn about god is a multi-translation bible. it's not good to read the fill ins and believe they are as infallible as the bible, its not good to read the scribal inserts and believe they are gods word. I for instance  have a bible that is both NIV and CJB.

biblehub is a wonderful source for this type of thing.

Another useful tool in learning about God is perhaps attending expository biblical lessons, secular historical bible lessons, learning from other primary sources about the economics and societies of the time to understand the bible in context.


if youre asking for a very basic and simple interpretation of what God is then he is the creator being who created all things including all physical rules to conform to his own liking and through his design; yes love and the psychedelic experience are all simply chemical and can be explained physically; but so is life and death in itself, even murder is physical. Things really happening does not mean there is no God, it means that we have tangible proof of mechanism.

god loves you and wants you to know him. theres only one way to him and knowing god will not save you in any physical way or bestow you with fortunes or anything of that.

the benefits of believing in god are thus:
The true knowledge of the real creator and an allegience toward him
The wisdom and patience and understanding that the awareness of being an spiritual infant and inferior brings.


man is made in God's image, you were created as an interpretation of the creative for all other beings including other humans. you are not a God, you are a clay husk of the real god, the things you can do are not anything compared.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26801191 - 07/03/20 10:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You say the Bible if interpreted in a certain way can bring wisdom, even practical wisdom, but you agree about the dangers of manipulating information. This is the problem when we hold a set books in high regard. It should be a book of lessons and not a holy book of absolutely authority. Which it is to many people.

We can reject and dispute the concepts that are generally used to explain God but God it self is not proveable which makes it null and void until we can have some evidence. Why live as if under some celestial North Korea when the evidence is not good at all. Once you start getting into God is these concepts, here and now, the universe. We no longer are talking about a god. We are talking about physical things that we labeled already.

You can interpret the idea of God punishing you for eternity as you causing your self punishment for instant gratification and wanting but the act of lusting after a person is not self gratifying as apposed to idk rape. You see in the tora God would punish you for an action and Jesus said the thought is the sin. Thought crimes, which is a corner stone of totalitarian ideals is the crime. The book being a dictators wet dream means nothing.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: slutoni]
    #26801199 - 07/03/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

slutoni said:
what follows is what i truly believe to be fact:

The God of the bible is real and the bible is perfect and the only holy things on earth are whatever translations are necessary for understanding.





So the gods of the other religions are false and the biblical god is the true god? What is the basis on which you dismiss all of the other holy books/gods?


Quote:

slutoni said:
if youre asking for a very basic and simple interpretation of what God is then he is the creator being who created all things including all physical rules to conform to his own liking and through his design; yes love and the psychedelic experience are all simply chemical and can be explained physically; but so is life and death in itself, even murder is physical. Things really happening does not mean there is no God, it means that we have tangible proof of mechanism.





This is confusing. You're fixated on "physical" phenomena. This is a standard materialistic view where everything in our scope is of the material plane and we have no access to the immaterial plane except through one arbitrarily specific god.

And how is everything explained physically? The psychedelic experience has a physical component but has intimations of the divine. Do you dismiss all of the psychedelic experience as simply a chemical phenomena? I'm not sure what your point is with this passage.

Quote:

slutoni said:
the benefits of believing in god are thus:
The true knowledge of the real creator and an allegiance toward him
The wisdom and patience and understanding that the awareness of being an spiritual infant and inferior brings.





Why would a perfect being, beyond petty necessities of the human mind, care about your allegiance?

Quote:

slutoni said:
man is made in God's image, you were created as an interpretation of the creative for all other beings including other humans. you are not a God, you are a clay husk of the real god, the things you can do are not anything compared.




Wouldn't God be beyond the physical comprehension? Or are we just made in his image based on our mental abilities?


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26801213 - 07/03/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
You say the Bible if interpreted in a certain way can bring wisdom, even practical wisdom, but you agree about the dangers of manipulating information. This is the problem when we hold a set books in high regard. It should be a book of lessons and not a holy book of absolutely authority. Which it is to many people.

We can reject and dispute the concepts that are generally used to explain God but God it self is not proveable which makes it null and void until we can have some evidence. Why live as if under some celestial North Korea when the evidence is not good at all. Once you start getting into God is these concepts, here and now, the universe. We no longer are talking about a god. We are talking about physical things that we labeled already.






So I think this is where we agree but somehow my message was obscured.

I absolutely agree, it should not be held as a "holy" book any more important than, say, Thoreau's Walden.

And, as I've stated, I don't believe in God. I don't think the bible's only value is in God. I think it has some interesting lessons about the human experience.

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
You can interpret the idea of God punishing you for eternity as you causing your self punishment for instant gratification and wanting but the act of lusting after a person is not self gratifying as apposed to idk rape. You see in the tora God would punish you for an action and Jesus said the thought is the sin. Thought crimes, which is a corner stone of totalitarian ideals is the crime. The book being a dictators wet dream means nothing.




Again, I'm not talking about God, just the utility of the bible. I'm talking about the lessons of self-responsibility, that you may suffer by striving for instant gratification, not that a "God" will punish you. I believe the lessons that can be derived from the bible are those that give an idea of the nature of the world and the possible worldly consequences, not the consequences of insulting some god.

I think the bible is a useful piece of literature. That's it. I don't agree with it being a cornerstone for a life just as I don't believe in discounting it simply because i'm an Atheist.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26801239 - 07/03/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Lol ok I see. We do indeed agree.

You might be more open to the wisdom in the Bible than I am. I don't see it being very useful as there are other writings before and after that convey the same message in simpler terms that don't require mental gymnastics of Olympic stature.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/03/20 10:46 AM)


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26801274 - 07/03/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
Lol ok I see. We do indeed agree.

You might be more open to the wisdom in the Bible than I am. I don't see it being very useful as there are other writings before and after that convey the same message in simpler terms that don't require mental gymnastics of Olympic stature.




I mean, to be honest, I'm only open to it because I love what Jordan Peterson has done with it. He has hundreds of hours in lectures on the entirety of the thing and it's incredible what he's done with it (in my opinion). If it wasn't for him I'd probably think exactly as you, I mean I was once a militant atheist (and I abhorred the bible).

And I definitely agree, there are many other texts out there that provide more than the bible. But I do feel that the bible provides some unique perspectives on the foundations of the western being. And with that, it also has some value in teaching us how to live in and according to western ideals. That isn't to say that the bible doesn't have absolute garbage in it. There are parts of the bible that are good only for kindling a fire made to burn the rest of the bible.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26801289 - 07/03/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26801970 - 07/03/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

First Council of Nicaea

This is how the grass roots religion of Christianity was embodied as the state religion of the Roman Empire.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: InfiniteDreams] * 1
    #26802076 - 07/03/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I have been an atheist since I was a teenager but I recently began reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I thought I saw God creating the earth on mushrooms one time. I ate 4 grams with 3 table spoons of Syrian rue and it lasted till the morning. I saw multiple Gods that looked like aliens they were talking to eachouther in strange clicking noises I did not understand them. In the center of them was a globe and it was spinning really fast. I thought I saw Gods creating the earth. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead they talk of multiple Gods. I hope Budisim is real I would love to be a child again. But im still not convinced atheism is false.


--------------------
How he could be a good user of LSD," I asked, "And know about the spiritual dimension - all that sort of thing - and still be a crook? I don't understand."
"Then it's time you did. Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change you character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...
Alexander Shulgin, Pihkal: A Chemical Love Story


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26802170 - 07/03/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I was force fed religion at an early age. Went to church 3 times a week, went to Christian school from K5 to graduation, so I’m not saying I’m a expert but I know the scriptures pretty good. With that said, if God exists, he is either very incompetent or has a very fucked up sense of humor. Think about, the God of the Bible created beings that have a life span somewhere in the area of 75 years on this planet(if you are lucky) and if you don’t accept the Son of God as you personal savior, he sends you to hell for eternity. That’s a pretty shitty deal if you ask me. Why create beings that you know billions will go to hell for all eternity if you aren’t a sadist motherfucker. But Antigov we have free will, yes but exercising your free will will send you to the eternal lake of fire FOREVER.

What seven years of psychedelic use has shown me is this reality isn’t what it seems to be and this reality is probably a simulation of sorts. I person think what we consider is God is a computer programer.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Antigov]
    #26802229 - 07/03/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

well that seems to be a bunch of questions that can't be answered, so OK!


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26802618 - 07/04/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The god of the tora is said to a jealous god. So there is that. Considering the jewish faith had heavy roots on polytheism they get
Closer to the truth with every passing century.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/04/20 01:19 AM)


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26802648 - 07/04/20 01:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I had a really strong liberty cap trip 30 years ago! That memorable!! In the trip I met both god and Satan; but this trip did not remove my fear of dying, as it supposedly does for so many people. Instead it left me with a fear of dying for decades. I had the underlying feeling;”what if when I do find out that god exists for real, he is evil”.

That is such a subtle change in focus, but it has existentially troubled me since that fateful trip!

I’ve started to get my mojo back over the last few years with more structured and respectful mushroom trips.

Mush love all
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26802934 - 07/04/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

it seems that all the emphasis on scary afterlife benefits or tortures (i.e. the anything NOT HERE OR NOW,) is entirely the fault of organized religions, which protects the wealth of the few over the freedom and joy of the many, by setting up rules of orderly behavior for slaves and vassals under threats of eternal punishments.

it is so effective that it troubles us deeply to this day, with people here at the shroomery doubting their own sanity - scaring themselves silly with devils and gods while they could just as well be having a wonderful moment.

that is how god and devil fear affects us.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26803079 - 07/04/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

mind tricks :crankey:

I grew up with it and it did some damage, but after systematically examining the Mind and the world I could find no place for it beyond my own imaginings.  I found a way to break the spell and so I later went through it with my brother.  I taught him when he came of age.  Happy to say he grew up mostly without that nonsense -  and he’s grown up without having his thinking contaminated & hindered by such malarkey & he is one of the most sane and brilliant men on this planet because of it.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/04/20 08:55 AM)


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26803151 - 07/04/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I hear what you’re saying, absolutely. But in regards specifically to my most profound trip ever,,there’s a few things maybe I should explain about my earlier comments.

1. It wasn’t at the first hour or so where I was pleading for my life on bended knee; time had stood still, like a freeze frame in a movie. God was at one end of the sky and Satan was at the other. They were both looking down upon me, my memories make me think of “The Gamesmaster”.

It wasn’t that aspect that scared me so existentially and to my core for years . It was what came after. I must have blacked out, but somehow physically got across town, woke in a gutter. But in that interim period I had existed simply as an energy spark in the dark black cold lonely vastness of the void. Not even a star. With the time dilation effects, this lasted for thousands of years. I to this day can still “feel” my memories of that experience; the cold, the dark, but above all else, the loneliness.

2. My thoughts on what if when I do die and find “god”, it turns out he is evil. That is a concept introduced to me by a well intentioned user on here, as a way to help come to terms with my 30 year ago trip. It is helping in direct ways in that I’m ex-poring more and more philosophical constructs and theories, and helping to rationalise what I may have experienced, and what there may be to come.

Religion is BULLSHIT. It’s worse than government, because no MP claims to be doing gods work, valour, honesty, all that religious trash.

God, in whatever form that may be, even if “god” is just the void within which we all are conscious, is certainly not bullshit.

Keep the conversation going people, this is all so fascinating to read your thoughts and experiences.

Love you all
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26803627 - 07/04/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It is The  Yin and the yang fellas

No need to call God or satan.

It will always be here. What started as a garden of eden was a catalyst for becoming conscious and hence learning about love.

Right now we are at a very important BUT very ugly stage : we the yin and the yangs are all trying to co operate together on how to break out this universe and start the party, to say.

There is soo  much wisdom out there, and a lot of it in this thread too.

What we building is gonna be magnificent. And the good news - we arew almost there!


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26803654 - 07/04/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

What amazes me most is how isolated our human society and our planet is. Nobody officially recognises that universe is actually timming with all kinds of life and what more is that this physical universe is like  a visible tip of the iceberg and there so many  other unseen dimensions....


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26803665 - 07/04/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

For me the tipping point was mushrooms and spirituality

I didnt go to church i didnt believe in god very much. But entheogens changed it.

Then i started reading about astral projections and there are many dimensions, and heaven - is just another dimension. So i was like YESSS!!! There is after life.

Then i had a multitude of spiritual experiences where i literally met / touched THE God the ultimate creater.

Lately, last 13 years been utter shit tho... bad guys demons locked in on me and been fucking me up for years


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26803671 - 07/04/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Back in the day 2003 / 2004 Shroomism wrote a little poem about God, i wonder if its still here somewhere. Poem was very good.


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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26803694 - 07/04/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:



05/31/03


Once upon a rhyme, in a far away place
There was a small thought, just drifting through space
It pondered for aeons and suddenly realized
The nature of thought, and meaning of life
To always evolve, experience and learn
Forever and ever - with love and discern

It took upon itself to create space and time
And then thought to itself, "My, this is quite fine"
But after awhile it became rather bored
And simply could not learn a thing anymore
But then all at once had a brilliant insight
"I will divide myself into an army of light!"

This was rather ingenious you see
To experience mutliple subjective realities
For trillions of years they surfed through the sea
A vast pool of souls that were pure energy
Pitching and rolling, and morphing like waves
There was simply no end to the synergy game

They knew not of hatred, nor malice or pain
But only the bliss that eternity brang
But then once again it reached critical mass
And could no longer learn from the inner cosmic class
So in all of it's glory and divine insight
It sought once again to make it's plan airtight

"I will devise stars, planets, and moons
They all will revolve perfectly in tune
And upon their surface I will incorporate
Millions of cycles in harmonic ways
As above, so below, from atom to space
And this shall be called the physical plane"

This will be a place of polar extremes
The final last stop for souls and their teams
"My divided selves will fall far from grace
To see through the eyes of angelic disdain"
To learn from mistakes is to always improve
"Thus I shall teach the darkness to groove"

And so it created a wonderous place
Full of experiences, pleasure and pain
And within every singly thing
Encoded itself, complete, perfectly
Within the elements the endless synergy
A perfect balance to last eternally

The Sun, the flowers, oceans and trees
The crystals, the mountains, the birds and the bees
All this is so perfect to experience this realm
The symbiotic cycle of nature at the helm
Within every being the potential is there
Omniscient creation with the original they share

But what could complete this magnificient feat?
A vehicle for spirit to learn from this treat
A physical body, as perfect as mine
To taste of this world which I have designed
A limited possession of matter and breath
For which to perceive all life until death

Human as one, yes we are the same
Separate illusion, until we reclaim
The reconnection of spiritual sight
The next stage of death - a body of light
So come sacred one - be not afraid
Thy consciousness will is simply to aid

So with every joy and every tear
With every doubt and every fear
Remember the source from whence you came
Human as one yes we are the same





--------------------





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OfflineLazaro
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26803717 - 07/04/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is a great threat. At least for how it's developing so far.

As for my personal beliefs, I was initially not religious, in fact, I was quite derisive of it (I hadn't been introduced to it at all, honestly). Nonetheless, since childhood I was always fascinated and quite open to the idea that there could be "something more", let's say, "magical", in the world. I don't recall having had any supernatural experiences, at least not "clear" ones.

At the end of my teens I started reading a lot. Seeing that many people I admired had been religious, I started having a lot more respect for religions in general. Eventually I started reading and learning about religion (Buddhism, Hinduism, but lately mostly Christianity) as well as mythology, and currently I am fascinated by the topic.

Since then, and the psychedelic experiences have had a bit to do with it, I would consider myself religious. I can't say what religion I am, though; I am still not sure what I believe in. This is why I can't say "My thoughts about God"; I feel there is something out there, and I've had some very strange experiences, but for now, that's it.


I know what the people who don't feel comfortable with the word "religion" mean, but it is in fact a beautiful word. If you look at the etimology (I specially like the second idea):

Quote:

The classical explanation of the word, traced to Cicero himself, derives it from re- (again) + lego in the sense of "choose", "go over again" or "consider carefully". Modern scholars such as Tom Harpur and Joseph Campbell favor the derivation from ligo "bind, connect", probably from a prefixed re-ligare, i.e. re- (again) + ligare or "to reconnect," which was made prominent by St. Augustine, following the interpretation of Lactantius.[6][7]


(Wikipedia)

I think being religious or not is very related to personality. I know some people would like to label people who feel "religiously" as "mentally ill", but I believe they are not right.

And then I'm convinced that trips vary A LOT from person to person, regarding this matter of "God" too. Some people can't feel "God" in their sober state but can sometimes through psychedelics; others can never feel any sort of "God"; others can feel a God in their sober state and most likely have a more intense feeling of it during psychedelics OR perhaps they will precisely have an experience full of doubt, etc.

I've had some very strange experiences myself... in my life and through psychedelics. Specially lately. They lean more and more to the idea that things that happen to us are not completely random, even though there doesn't seem to be any reasonable explanation for this. And things seem to get much less random (in my experience) when I'm under the spell of the mushrooms.

My trips, even at quite low doses, seem "guided" by some force, and allowing myself to be guided has always given beautiful results (we could imagine it is my unconscious who is guiding me; but then again, the final message of Christianity for example is that God is inside of us).

Surprised to see so many people who like Peterson here. I disagree with him strongly on some things, but then I agree on many others and I almost always find him very interesting to listen to. Some people say his weakness is when he deals with religion (as he never answers directly, and has a lot of doubts himself), but I'd say it's what interests me the most of him. In general, I like his attitude... He seems on a constant quest of self improvement, and I think these recent events in his life (it seems he almost died) will transform him for the good.


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OfflineThe_BassCannon
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Lazaro]
    #26805520 - 07/05/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

God is an idea/thought/notion, something that is taught/learned or the noise made when one is referencing the god idea.


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Offlinedlj403
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The_BassCannon]
    #26806336 - 07/06/20 07:30 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If there is a god, then I'm gonna kick him in the nuts if I ever meet him for what 2020 turned out to be!


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: dlj403]
    #26806938 - 07/06/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I recently saw an interview with Jordan. I don't know how to embed a videos but he was talking to Dave rubin...I know.

  He was claiming that although Sam Harris is an atheist he still follows christian values.  Rubin asked him to explain, Jordan said that because Sam doesn't steal or murder that he is following christian teachings...

  This is the stupidity of jordan and religion.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26807019 - 07/06/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I recently saw an interview with Jordan. I don't know how to embed a videos but he was talking to Dave rubin...I know.

  He was claiming that although Sam Harris is an atheist he still follows christian values.  Rubin asked him to explain, Jordan said that because Sam doesn't steal or murder that he is following christian teachings...

  This is the stupidity of jordan and religion.




Yes I've seen that one. I think that is oversimplifying it. Jordan is claiming that western societies are built on a religious foundation (for better or for worse). Thus, Sam Harris, who was raised in the western style, has a foundation that is rooted in christianity.

But I agree with you. Peterson does hold religion quite strongly and thus says some questionable things. For example, he claims that even atheists have beliefs. And although that is true, atheists have beliefs about the world, he misconstrues that as proving that atheists are living a contradiction (even though the beliefs we hold are of a completely different nature. Like, I believe the supermarket is open doesn't disqualify my atheism).

Peterson is far from perfect. But do we discount the wisdom of a great mechanic when he speaks of the nature of mechanics because he believes that fish are actually aliens that spy on us? His mania does not discredit when he presents his knowledge of mechanics (so long as it doesn't spill over). Peterson's ego does not disqualify the knowledge he has presented on the psychological front, imo.


--------------------


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26807043 - 07/06/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I can go grab a quote from his book I read. It's fishy.

No teacher,no method, no guru.

My main point on Peterson is he's just a person. He has his ideas we have our own. I might hold Terrence up as a wise person but he also had his wacky ideas. Time wave anybody.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/06/20 01:46 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26807052 - 07/06/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone’s just a person, more or less like you and I.  Got to remember that and keep things in perspective.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26807123 - 07/06/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I can go grab a quote from his book I read. It's fishy.

No teacher,no method, no guru.

My main point on Peterson is he's just a person. He has his ideas we have our own. I might hold Terrence up as a wise person but he also had his wacky ideas. Time wave anybody.




I never said he wasn't just a person. He absolutely is. And I love Terrence as well.

What I'm saying is that, the wacky or bad or ignorant ideas that a person may have do not disqualify their good ideas.

I don't hold Jordan or Terrence as, say, gurus or teachers. But I believe their wealth of knowledge is bigger than mine and they have concepts that really resonate with me. So I appreciate them greatly, despite the fact that they were/are also just flawed creatures.


--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26807155 - 07/06/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

yes  :respect:


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineLazaro
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26807384 - 07/06/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I recently saw an interview with Jordan. I don't know how to embed a videos but he was talking to Dave rubin...I know.

  He was claiming that although Sam Harris is an atheist he still follows christian values.  Rubin asked him to explain, Jordan said that because Sam doesn't steal or murder that he is following christian teachings...

  This is the stupidity of jordan and religion.




It sounds quite terrible, I guess he didn't phrase it very well, but I understand what he means perfectly.

There are not many real atheists in my view also. One real atheist would for example be Nietzsche, who is a fascinating figure because he really tried to go to the root of it. If you don't go against morality, like he did, I just, like Peterson, don't see how people can call themselves atheists since morality originated in religion and it only later got "rationalized".

Nontheless JP example is quite bad, or badly put, as he is more intelligent than that; as Nietzsche would also not go around killing and stealing for no reason. He actually was quite conservative an believed in order, and thought most criminals are degenerate. The main thing for Nietzsche is that if somebody got in somebody's way to achieve something (perhaps arguably "good", but not necessarly, it could be an egotistical deed also) there should be no remorse for killing that person who is in the middle, trying to prevent it.
His example was Napoleon, whom he really admired. And it is also the example that Raskolnikov of Crime and Punishment takes: Raskolnikov (Peterson refers to this story too) thought that there are some superior individuals (like Napoleon) who are allowed to kill if it will make the world better. I.e.: for actually "good" reasons!

These "sanctity of human life" is something definitely not rational, or at least, I can't see how it is.

Peterson's point, that I like, is that people did and do things without understanding what they are doing first, and only later they rationalize it. But these rationalizations "a posteriory" have something artificial (and extremely fragile) in them.

This kind of realizations are something that mushrooms tend to show very deeply, more deeply than can be expressed. With visions, not words. And it tends to be quite dark...

I've seen how fragile it all is, that a lot of things we take for granted could be done away with extremely easily.


Edited by Lazaro (07/06/20 04:00 PM)


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Offlinekyu
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26807404 - 07/06/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
I have to be honest with you all; when I’m using mushrooms regularly, heavily, it gets even more c0nfusing and mixed up in my head. I start considering conspiracy theories, and philosophy, and all sorts of matrix-type stuff.




Now this is painfully true. It's hard to admit it, but psychedelics seem to bring us to a state when we produce certain beliefs of dose-dependent weirdness. It can be healing or inspiring or motivating, but as such psychedelic experiences are just experiences.

However.

I believe we need it. Have you noticed that the more sober you get, the less sense things make? And that conspiracy crap, it makes lots of sense, paradoxically. That's because we're human beings, we're designed to be bananas.

The thing is, we can dance not only with our bodies, but with our minds, our souls. And tripping is a way to do it. For those who aren't afraid to look stupid, you know.


--------------------
You gave me a wonderful, wonderful world,
And you gave me eyes to see it,
And you gave me LSD to open them.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Lazaro]
    #26807484 - 07/06/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lazaro said:
... If you don't go against morality, like he did, I just, like Peterson, don't see how people can call themselves atheists since morality originated in religion and it only later got "rationalized".
...




morality exists even among dogs, there are many intuitive aspects about morality.

after religion decorated it - it actually became cumbersome.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26807501 - 07/06/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Great questions, Ed!

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
What are your thoughts on god, spirituality, and religion?




I was raised Jewish. My parents took me to synagogue until I was thirteen, which is typically when Jews go through a right of passage called a Bar Mitzvah. I had a Bar Mitzvah, which required me to learn to read a passage from the Torah (the old testament) in Hebrew - this took months of studying and preparation. I also had to translate the portion and deliver my own interpretation of it as a speech to the entire congregation.

While I was preparing for my Bar Mitzvah, my family was falling apart. My parents got a divorce, and I didn't deal with it very well at all. I remember I was crying alone in my room about the divorce, and I started praying out loud to God to help me heal from it. After a few minutes of talking, I started to ask the question of whether or not anyone was actually listening to my pleas. One question led to another, and after a little more investigation (and discussion with my friends), I discovered that I was an agnostic atheist.

Nevertheless, I had my Bar Mitzvah and, at that point, the congregation considered me an adult (spiritually, anyway), so my parents told me that I was allowed to do whatever I wanted with my faith moving forward. That was when I told them that I didn't believe in God and that I didn't want to practice Judaism anymore - fortunately, my parents were okay with that, even though they both believed in God. They were sad to hear that I was an atheist, but they always seemed to have the attitude that I would come around when I grew up (ironic, considering the congregation already considered me an "adult"), and just trusted me to find my own path back to God. I'm pretty blessed in that respect, as I've heard so many stories of parents forcing their children to adhere to religious traditions.

I still don't believe in God today. Specifically, I don't believe in the God described in the Torah. As I said, I'm an agnostic atheist. That means that I don't believe in God, but I would gladly change my beliefs if evidence of God's existence were to present itself to me. Many people have had such revelations in their own lives, including Phillip K. Dick, one of my favorite authors of all time, so I'm open to that type of experience. Nevertheless, it hasn't really happened for me, and it might not ever :shrug:

When it comes to spirituality, I find the term to be a bit hard to define. To me, spirituality means feeling connected to something larger than yourself and, under that definition, I am absolutely spiritual. Though I am an atheist, I believe that the universe itself exists, and that it is vastly more complex than my wildest imagination. As a living thing in this universe, I feel a kinship with the whole, so I guess I'm spiritual in that sense. It might be tempting to label me as a pantheist, but that isn't quite accurate, since I'm not entirely convinced that the universe is sentient, conscious, or has any creative capacity.

As for religion, I feel torn about it, really. There have been some God-awful (pun intended) atrocities committed in the name of religion, and there have been horrible people who use organized religion to protect themselves from prosecution, to control people's behavior, and to extort money from desperate people. Nevertheless, it's not all bad. Some of the traditions I was raised with affected me in a positive way. For example, writing my own interpretation of my Torah portion for my Bar Mitzvah was a great exercise in creative writing and critical thinking. That said, I could have acquired those skills without the aid of an organized religion, but it's kind of cool that I went through that. I guess I'd say organized religion is a tool - it can be used to bring people together and encourage growth and development, but it can also be used to control, abuse, and extort. I believe all traditions should be questioned.

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
How have these beliefs been affected through psychedelics use?




The main thing that psychedelics introduced to me was a new question I hadn't asked previously: are there things which are completely beyond the realm of human understanding? Are there questions that our best rational tools (science, mathematics, philosophy) could never answer? Psychedelics have shown me things that cannot be described in words, things that seem to escape all rational analysis, so I think the answer to my question may be "yes". That said, just because something doesn't have a rational explanation does not mean that we have license to populate our lack of understanding with tradition or conjecture.

So, even after using psychedelics, I am still an agnostic atheist. Psychedelics have exposed me to new modes of human consciousness, and I think that's really interesting, but I'm extremely hesitant to attach a religious or spiritual context to my psychedelic experiences.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineLazaro
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26808231 - 07/07/20 03:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Lazaro said:
... If you don't go against morality, like he did, I just, like Peterson, don't see how people can call themselves atheists since morality originated in religion and it only later got "rationalized".
...




morality exists even among dogs, there are many intuitive aspects about morality.

after religion decorated it - it actually became cumbersome.




Well, thinking this way I guess would qualify you as an atheist in my view.

Personally I don't know about this "morality" of dogs, but I'm unsure whether it's right to call that morality.

In any case, it would be more wise to look at Chimpanzes (the closest relatives) and compare their behaviours to humans.
I think we can imagine the first humanoids started of like that. I am not expert on the topic either, but as far as I know those Chimpanzes societies are quite rough.

Of course they have some "rules" or patterns of functioning too. But if morality was only that, if it was just the same for humans as in dogs but just with different rules, then it would have never changed or improved at all: it would have remained the same throught history.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Lazaro]
    #26808296 - 07/07/20 05:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

what dogs may teach you is the innate respect of others,
and that is the essence of soul after you scrape off the junk

nothing need be added,

however, a written record of how you solved family matters etc. can be a terrific guide for generations to come.

note that the name of god in hebrew always was something like Yehaveh which means "I am that I am"

this is an awfully short sentence in which the meaning of I am (essential entity) is doubled, which suggests both duality and appreciation of the other. I would look at that most carefully in thinking about god.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Edited by redgreenvines (07/07/20 06:16 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26808348 - 07/07/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A very well composed response, NI, thank you.
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26808350 - 07/07/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

redgreenvines, perfect!

And I have to say it, “dog” is “god” spelt backwards. I think the whole intent of the Bible could be summed up by “behave like a dog”, in that you should treat others how you would expect to be treated yourself, and with love. Live in the moment, savour life, and love your family.

When I think of the love my dogs have for me, I cry often. They are my children, and I would jump in front of a train for them.

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26808525 - 07/07/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

it is in instincst too

another word for it is common sense

..

all that good stuff non violence painting etc.

writing good posts

no error

seeing the sun rise etc.

morning mentality

liberation

school

good parenting

finding one's center


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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