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slutoni
Stragler


Registered: 05/21/15
Posts: 28
Last seen: 4 months, 10 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
#26801168 - 07/03/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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what follows is what i truly believe to be fact:
The God of the bible is real and the bible is perfect and the only holy things on earth are whatever translations are necessary for understanding.
god does not require you to speak a specific language (islam, judaism, catholicism, some anabaptists), he simply asks that you hear his words so you can reach the understanding he wants you to have of his love and his greatness and of his justice.
for some people a good pastor can really help with learning about god through his word. however. most pastors and priests are presenting things that are not the bible as if their own authority is infallible (the bible says otherwise), they will extrapolate and make statements about existence instead of reading. Take for instance, a pastor who gives a lesson on the subject of love and then reads various verses from all over the bible to then create a weird idea of what love is, because he has read the bible out of context.
what one needs in order to learn about god is a multi-translation bible. it's not good to read the fill ins and believe they are as infallible as the bible, its not good to read the scribal inserts and believe they are gods word. I for instance have a bible that is both NIV and CJB.
biblehub is a wonderful source for this type of thing.
Another useful tool in learning about God is perhaps attending expository biblical lessons, secular historical bible lessons, learning from other primary sources about the economics and societies of the time to understand the bible in context.
if youre asking for a very basic and simple interpretation of what God is then he is the creator being who created all things including all physical rules to conform to his own liking and through his design; yes love and the psychedelic experience are all simply chemical and can be explained physically; but so is life and death in itself, even murder is physical. Things really happening does not mean there is no God, it means that we have tangible proof of mechanism.
god loves you and wants you to know him. theres only one way to him and knowing god will not save you in any physical way or bestow you with fortunes or anything of that.
the benefits of believing in god are thus: The true knowledge of the real creator and an allegience toward him The wisdom and patience and understanding that the awareness of being an spiritual infant and inferior brings.
man is made in God's image, you were created as an interpretation of the creative for all other beings including other humans. you are not a God, you are a clay husk of the real god, the things you can do are not anything compared.
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LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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You say the Bible if interpreted in a certain way can bring wisdom, even practical wisdom, but you agree about the dangers of manipulating information. This is the problem when we hold a set books in high regard. It should be a book of lessons and not a holy book of absolutely authority. Which it is to many people.
We can reject and dispute the concepts that are generally used to explain God but God it self is not proveable which makes it null and void until we can have some evidence. Why live as if under some celestial North Korea when the evidence is not good at all. Once you start getting into God is these concepts, here and now, the universe. We no longer are talking about a god. We are talking about physical things that we labeled already.
You can interpret the idea of God punishing you for eternity as you causing your self punishment for instant gratification and wanting but the act of lusting after a person is not self gratifying as apposed to idk rape. You see in the tora God would punish you for an action and Jesus said the thought is the sin. Thought crimes, which is a corner stone of totalitarian ideals is the crime. The book being a dictators wet dream means nothing.
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Socrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 8 hours
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: slutoni]
#26801199 - 07/03/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
slutoni said: what follows is what i truly believe to be fact:
The God of the bible is real and the bible is perfect and the only holy things on earth are whatever translations are necessary for understanding.
So the gods of the other religions are false and the biblical god is the true god? What is the basis on which you dismiss all of the other holy books/gods?
Quote:
slutoni said: if youre asking for a very basic and simple interpretation of what God is then he is the creator being who created all things including all physical rules to conform to his own liking and through his design; yes love and the psychedelic experience are all simply chemical and can be explained physically; but so is life and death in itself, even murder is physical. Things really happening does not mean there is no God, it means that we have tangible proof of mechanism.
This is confusing. You're fixated on "physical" phenomena. This is a standard materialistic view where everything in our scope is of the material plane and we have no access to the immaterial plane except through one arbitrarily specific god.
And how is everything explained physically? The psychedelic experience has a physical component but has intimations of the divine. Do you dismiss all of the psychedelic experience as simply a chemical phenomena? I'm not sure what your point is with this passage.
Quote:
slutoni said: the benefits of believing in god are thus: The true knowledge of the real creator and an allegiance toward him The wisdom and patience and understanding that the awareness of being an spiritual infant and inferior brings.
Why would a perfect being, beyond petty necessities of the human mind, care about your allegiance?
Quote:
slutoni said: man is made in God's image, you were created as an interpretation of the creative for all other beings including other humans. you are not a God, you are a clay husk of the real god, the things you can do are not anything compared.
Wouldn't God be beyond the physical comprehension? Or are we just made in his image based on our mental abilities?
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Socrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 8 hours
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26801213 - 07/03/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LosTresOjos said: You say the Bible if interpreted in a certain way can bring wisdom, even practical wisdom, but you agree about the dangers of manipulating information. This is the problem when we hold a set books in high regard. It should be a book of lessons and not a holy book of absolutely authority. Which it is to many people.
We can reject and dispute the concepts that are generally used to explain God but God it self is not proveable which makes it null and void until we can have some evidence. Why live as if under some celestial North Korea when the evidence is not good at all. Once you start getting into God is these concepts, here and now, the universe. We no longer are talking about a god. We are talking about physical things that we labeled already.
So I think this is where we agree but somehow my message was obscured.
I absolutely agree, it should not be held as a "holy" book any more important than, say, Thoreau's Walden.
And, as I've stated, I don't believe in God. I don't think the bible's only value is in God. I think it has some interesting lessons about the human experience.
Quote:
LosTresOjos said: You can interpret the idea of God punishing you for eternity as you causing your self punishment for instant gratification and wanting but the act of lusting after a person is not self gratifying as apposed to idk rape. You see in the tora God would punish you for an action and Jesus said the thought is the sin. Thought crimes, which is a corner stone of totalitarian ideals is the crime. The book being a dictators wet dream means nothing.
Again, I'm not talking about God, just the utility of the bible. I'm talking about the lessons of self-responsibility, that you may suffer by striving for instant gratification, not that a "God" will punish you. I believe the lessons that can be derived from the bible are those that give an idea of the nature of the world and the possible worldly consequences, not the consequences of insulting some god.
I think the bible is a useful piece of literature. That's it. I don't agree with it being a cornerstone for a life just as I don't believe in discounting it simply because i'm an Atheist.
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LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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Lol ok I see. We do indeed agree.
You might be more open to the wisdom in the Bible than I am. I don't see it being very useful as there are other writings before and after that convey the same message in simpler terms that don't require mental gymnastics of Olympic stature.
Edited by LosTresOjos (07/03/20 10:46 AM)
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Socrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 8 hours
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26801274 - 07/03/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LosTresOjos said: Lol ok I see. We do indeed agree.
You might be more open to the wisdom in the Bible than I am. I don't see it being very useful as there are other writings before and after that convey the same message in simpler terms that don't require mental gymnastics of Olympic stature.
I mean, to be honest, I'm only open to it because I love what Jordan Peterson has done with it. He has hundreds of hours in lectures on the entirety of the thing and it's incredible what he's done with it (in my opinion). If it wasn't for him I'd probably think exactly as you, I mean I was once a militant atheist (and I abhorred the bible).
And I definitely agree, there are many other texts out there that provide more than the bible. But I do feel that the bible provides some unique perspectives on the foundations of the western being. And with that, it also has some value in teaching us how to live in and according to western ideals. That isn't to say that the bible doesn't have absolute garbage in it. There are parts of the bible that are good only for kindling a fire made to burn the rest of the bible.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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First Council of Nicaea
This is how the grass roots religion of Christianity was embodied as the state religion of the Roman Empire.
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OGshroomHead
Dopefiend


Registered: 06/07/20
Posts: 209
Loc: Terrapin Station
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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I have been an atheist since I was a teenager but I recently began reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead. I thought I saw God creating the earth on mushrooms one time. I ate 4 grams with 3 table spoons of Syrian rue and it lasted till the morning. I saw multiple Gods that looked like aliens they were talking to eachouther in strange clicking noises I did not understand them. In the center of them was a globe and it was spinning really fast. I thought I saw Gods creating the earth. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead they talk of multiple Gods. I hope Budisim is real I would love to be a child again. But im still not convinced atheism is false.
-------------------- How he could be a good user of LSD," I asked, "And know about the spiritual dimension - all that sort of thing - and still be a crook? I don't understand." "Then it's time you did. Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change you character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it... Alexander Shulgin, Pihkal: A Chemical Love Story
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Antigov



Registered: 03/17/19
Posts: 792
Loc: Deep within the BibleBelt
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
#26802170 - 07/03/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was force fed religion at an early age. Went to church 3 times a week, went to Christian school from K5 to graduation, so I’m not saying I’m a expert but I know the scriptures pretty good. With that said, if God exists, he is either very incompetent or has a very fucked up sense of humor. Think about, the God of the Bible created beings that have a life span somewhere in the area of 75 years on this planet(if you are lucky) and if you don’t accept the Son of God as you personal savior, he sends you to hell for eternity. That’s a pretty shitty deal if you ask me. Why create beings that you know billions will go to hell for all eternity if you aren’t a sadist motherfucker. But Antigov we have free will, yes but exercising your free will will send you to the eternal lake of fire FOREVER.
What seven years of psychedelic use has shown me is this reality isn’t what it seems to be and this reality is probably a simulation of sorts. I person think what we consider is God is a computer programer.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Antigov]
#26802229 - 07/03/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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well that seems to be a bunch of questions that can't be answered, so OK!
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LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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The god of the tora is said to a jealous god. So there is that. Considering the jewish faith had heavy roots on polytheism they get Closer to the truth with every passing century.
Edited by LosTresOjos (07/04/20 01:19 AM)
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26802648 - 07/04/20 01:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I had a really strong liberty cap trip 30 years ago! That memorable!! In the trip I met both god and Satan; but this trip did not remove my fear of dying, as it supposedly does for so many people. Instead it left me with a fear of dying for decades. I had the underlying feeling;”what if when I do find out that god exists for real, he is evil”.
That is such a subtle change in focus, but it has existentially troubled me since that fateful trip!
I’ve started to get my mojo back over the last few years with more structured and respectful mushroom trips.
Mush love all DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
#26802934 - 07/04/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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it seems that all the emphasis on scary afterlife benefits or tortures (i.e. the anything NOT HERE OR NOW,) is entirely the fault of organized religions, which protects the wealth of the few over the freedom and joy of the many, by setting up rules of orderly behavior for slaves and vassals under threats of eternal punishments.
it is so effective that it troubles us deeply to this day, with people here at the shroomery doubting their own sanity - scaring themselves silly with devils and gods while they could just as well be having a wonderful moment.
that is how god and devil fear affects us.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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mind tricks 
I grew up with it and it did some damage, but after systematically examining the Mind and the world I could find no place for it beyond my own imaginings. I found a way to break the spell and so I later went through it with my brother. I taught him when he came of age. Happy to say he grew up mostly without that nonsense - and he’s grown up without having his thinking contaminated & hindered by such malarkey & he is one of the most sane and brilliant men on this planet because of it.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/04/20 08:55 AM)
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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I hear what you’re saying, absolutely. But in regards specifically to my most profound trip ever,,there’s a few things maybe I should explain about my earlier comments.
1. It wasn’t at the first hour or so where I was pleading for my life on bended knee; time had stood still, like a freeze frame in a movie. God was at one end of the sky and Satan was at the other. They were both looking down upon me, my memories make me think of “The Gamesmaster”.
It wasn’t that aspect that scared me so existentially and to my core for years . It was what came after. I must have blacked out, but somehow physically got across town, woke in a gutter. But in that interim period I had existed simply as an energy spark in the dark black cold lonely vastness of the void. Not even a star. With the time dilation effects, this lasted for thousands of years. I to this day can still “feel” my memories of that experience; the cold, the dark, but above all else, the loneliness.
2. My thoughts on what if when I do die and find “god”, it turns out he is evil. That is a concept introduced to me by a well intentioned user on here, as a way to help come to terms with my 30 year ago trip. It is helping in direct ways in that I’m ex-poring more and more philosophical constructs and theories, and helping to rationalise what I may have experienced, and what there may be to come.
Religion is BULLSHIT. It’s worse than government, because no MP claims to be doing gods work, valour, honesty, all that religious trash.
God, in whatever form that may be, even if “god” is just the void within which we all are conscious, is certainly not bullshit.
Keep the conversation going people, this is all so fascinating to read your thoughts and experiences.
Love you all DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



Registered: 03/17/17
Posts: 4,501
Loc: Deep in the discoteka
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
#26803627 - 07/04/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is The Yin and the yang fellas
No need to call God or satan.
It will always be here. What started as a garden of eden was a catalyst for becoming conscious and hence learning about love.
Right now we are at a very important BUT very ugly stage : we the yin and the yangs are all trying to co operate together on how to break out this universe and start the party, to say.
There is soo much wisdom out there, and a lot of it in this thread too.
What we building is gonna be magnificent. And the good news - we arew almost there!
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



Registered: 03/17/17
Posts: 4,501
Loc: Deep in the discoteka
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
#26803654 - 07/04/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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What amazes me most is how isolated our human society and our planet is. Nobody officially recognises that universe is actually timming with all kinds of life and what more is that this physical universe is like a visible tip of the iceberg and there so many other unseen dimensions....
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



Registered: 03/17/17
Posts: 4,501
Loc: Deep in the discoteka
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
#26803665 - 07/04/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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For me the tipping point was mushrooms and spirituality
I didnt go to church i didnt believe in god very much. But entheogens changed it.
Then i started reading about astral projections and there are many dimensions, and heaven - is just another dimension. So i was like YESSS!!! There is after life.
Then i had a multitude of spiritual experiences where i literally met / touched THE God the ultimate creater.
Lately, last 13 years been utter shit tho... bad guys demons locked in on me and been fucking me up for years
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



Registered: 03/17/17
Posts: 4,501
Loc: Deep in the discoteka
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Gypsy Boy]
#26803671 - 07/04/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Back in the day 2003 / 2004 Shroomism wrote a little poem about God, i wonder if its still here somewhere. Poem was very good.
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