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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26799584 - 07/02/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

there is truth in the bible and truth in the holocaust as well, but these are different volumes of stuff that a person can be loaded down with.

I do not have any replacement of any single channel that can become central to a society, except to encourage people to be open to other channels as well, and see what is going on among the subscribers to each channel, and determine for yourself how much you want to be defined by their notions.

A channel that seems to take a lot of time should be considered critically as a controlling agency. One needs to draw their own limits on how far a channel can rule one's life.


By the way, Jordan P. has completely recovered from his benzo diazepam addiction using a medical vacation for a novel Russian medical coma induction, which has worked for opium addicts - they do not consciously experience withdrawal - and some awaken healed while others do not awaken.

This means he has voluntarily awakened from the dead; and that most certainly will not be the end of his fame.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Edited by redgreenvines (07/02/20 03:08 PM)


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26799633 - 07/02/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

We covered some truths in the Bible. Not the Holocaust but do elaborate.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799668 - 07/02/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This thread is getting really interesting. But it would seem my limited knowledge of Jordan Peterson is just that, limited. No offence intended to anyone. He just seems to be coming up a lot in my YouTube feed, so you do get drawn in. I’ve liked what he has to say so far, maybe that opinion will change.

Then again, there are people, famous people, that I’ve taken an instant dislike to. Like Chris Martin out of Coldplay. Despised him for years, though had to admit I liked a lot of his music. Then saw Coldplay at a festival and was bowled over. Whatever you think of a person, their views, what they say in public, can fundamentally change when you meet them in person, and interact with them as a person, not a persona.

Mush love all
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom] * 1
    #26799706 - 07/02/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would have loved having Peterson as a prof. in college. 

And I agree, A lot of religious texts, films, books, myths, stories etc contain valuable timeless wisdom , practical wisdom, about the human condition & living.  If one can thinking operationally vs concrete you can potentially derive much benefit from religion - without subjugating yourself to another man’s rule, or dogmatism.  Similes., metaphor, allegory, parables, etc.  Beautiful & terrifyingly beautiful stuff stuff.


--------------------
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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26799719 - 07/02/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but there are also non-religious texts that have even more of that stuff than the religious texts. Not to downplay the good messages or potential good effects of the religious texts, just wanted to mention.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: nooneman]
    #26799790 - 07/02/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It’s spread all over religion & nonreligious stuff. But yeah :thumbup:


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26799836 - 07/02/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think the real issue is that people tend to dive in so deep they loose the ability to think for themselves and have to rely on old text for common sense problems.

  When you believe God is on your side you can justify any action or explanation. Which is not good reasoning skills. I have no doubt that good can be derived from the Bible but then again we know a decent amount of history when it comes to the Bible and it's actual real life uses. Not really used for spirituality but as a tool to command the bodies and minds of it's followers. We can easily weed out the wisdom and have a solid 50 page manual.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26799999 - 07/02/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I think the real issue is that people tend to dive in so deep they loose the ability to think for themselves and have to rely on old text for common sense problems.

  When you believe God is on your side you can justify any action or explanation. Which is not good reasoning skills. I have no doubt that good can be derived from the Bible but then again we know a decent amount of history when it comes to the Bible and it's actual real life uses. Not really used for spirituality but as a tool to command the bodies and minds of it's followers. We can easily weed out the wisdom and have a solid 50 page manual.




Agreed, although, with various interpretations, I think it might be a bit longer than 50 pages.

But do we blame the Bible for what we’ve done to it or do we blame ourselves? There are some evil cult leaders who used mushrooms as a tool to “communicate” with evil. If all you saw was those types, it would be easy to regard mushrooms as a catalyst for evil.

And I don’t even think the Bible has much in the way of “spirituality” I think it has more practical wisdom, when interpreted metaphorically, about the common patterns of experience through time (suffering, how the heroes journey applies to our lives, the infinite cycle of psychological death and rebirth, etc). But there are some outdated bits, obviously. I mean Aristotle is so highly regarded but no one would praise him for his views on slavery.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26800008 - 07/02/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
there is truth in the bible and truth in the holocaust as well, but these are different volumes of stuff that a person can be loaded down with.

I do not have any replacement of any single channel that can become central to a society, except to encourage people to be open to other channels as well, and see what is going on among the subscribers to each channel, and determine for yourself how much you want to be defined by their notions.

A channel that seems to take a lot of time should be considered critically as a controlling agency. One needs to draw their own limits on how far a channel can rule one's life.


By the way, Jordan P. has completely recovered from his benzo diazepam addiction using a medical vacation for a novel Russian medical coma induction, which has worked for opium addicts - they do not consciously experience withdrawal - and some awaken healed while others do not awaken.

This means he has voluntarily awakened from the dead; and that most certainly will not be the end of his fame.




Agreed and eloquently put. Openness of the mind matters most.

And good to hear he’s recovered, I know he was struggling with his wife’s diagnosis. Interesting how he has risen from the ashes like a Phoenix. I like how that analogy (which obviously isn’t his but he references a lot) can be applied to the psychedelic experience.


--------------------


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26800207 - 07/02/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Out dated bits? That's a HUGE understatement. More like laughable errors made by men who clearly didn't know any better. Practical wisdom? Hmm like what? Because we discussed the golden rule and that bit of wisdom is lost in totalitarian garbage.

  When a Tek is released should you attempt to interpret it? Or follow it? If it says to pressure cook for 45min at 15psi is there much to interpret?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800244 - 07/02/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Our attitudes towards things like the Bible or mushrooms are so revealing, aren’t they?  I think you are oversimplifying it.  Why should a book upset u so much?
RGV & SS,

I’m really glad Peterson’s well again :thumbup:  He’s got a keen eye & good discernment & articulates ideas n concepts well - all sorely needed in our world where sanity, morality, and wisdom‘s voice is saturated in a field of shit & illusion.


--------------------
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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26800328 - 07/02/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It seems simple. But i will drop it since i do get heated.


  I originally had thought i read that Jordon was in rehab for alcohol. Those benzos are damn addictive as well. I had not really heard anything since hearing he had gone in. He probably had easy access to them too.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800369 - 07/02/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

All good man.  Today it was you, tomorrow it’s me :thumbup:


--------------------
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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800556 - 07/03/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone ever questioned how the Roman Catholic Church became one of the world’s largest religions? Well at the time when Jesus was around, the Roman Empire was huge. But hey, before you know it, head office is in The Vatican. That is some quantum leap.

A problem with religious texts is how they get translated and re-translated, each time the current political establishment like bias is applied, and after a few thousand years of these “Chinese Whispers”, you get a religious manual of dogma and control....

Jesus loves you, but if you stray from our chosen path, you will burn in hell for eternity. Ok, no pressure then.......

❤️
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26800573 - 07/03/20 12:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You also have to remember that people seized the opportunity of a population that was primed for that sort of thinking. The Christmas date was adopted around that time since they already celebrated the winter solstice? I'd have to look that up to be sure. But it was probably rather easy to just merg the cultures.

  Translations always pose problems. Any kind of information transfer is suspectable to manipulation. This is why logical reasoning for things is important.

  You know I love my wife but I'm also absolutely terrified if I step out of line. She threatens me with eternal torment if I for example have a lustful thought about another body be it male or female. She has also made me take my loving dog to a tall hill to sacrifice it's life to only have me stop at the last moment. She does this to show my neighbors how dedicated I am to her. Love it's a wild thing.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26800617 - 07/03/20 01:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

All that’s got to do with man’s ignorance, not with what the word God really points to - the great perfection of it all. (Yet another pointer to) that’s all words can do.  Gotta see past it.


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26801021 - 07/03/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A lot of the posts are responding to "What are you thoughts on religion". Not God, as in the title.


I don't believe in religion but I absolutely believe in God. To me, they're two separate things. I hate when people say they don't believe in God, and then go on to debunk religion. Fine, you don't like priests, bible, etc.. so that means there's no God?

God is the thing we can never understand. People throughout history have been arrogant, thinking they have it all figured out. The closest you'll ever come to understanding God is when you stop trying to figure it out. Accept that the whole concept is way beyond what a human brain can comprehend. Appreciate the wonder of nature. That's where God is.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26801115 - 07/03/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
Out dated bits? That's a HUGE understatement. More like laughable errors made by men who clearly didn't know any better. Practical wisdom? Hmm like what? Because we discussed the golden rule and that bit of wisdom is lost in totalitarian garbage.

  When a Tek is released should you attempt to interpret it? Or follow it? If it says to pressure cook for 45min at 15psi is there much to interpret?




You're fixed on the golden rule being the only thing one can learn from these texts. Many stories teach valuable lessons about necessary sacrifice, delaying gratification, the nature of evil, etc. I think it's a little different than TEKs. The bible is not something to follow exactly. It's a collection of stories that have a message. A TEK doesn't have an underlying message, its a literal step by step guide on how to.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Our attitudes towards things like the Bible or mushrooms are so revealing, aren’t they?  I think you are oversimplifying it.  Why should a book upset u so much?
RGV & SS,

I’m really glad Peterson’s well again :thumbup:  He’s got a keen eye & good discernment & articulates ideas n concepts well - all sorely needed in our world where sanity, morality, and wisdom‘s voice is saturated in a field of shit & illusion.




Definitely. Perspective is a very strange beast.

I'm glad others like to discuss Peterson and his work. He put himself in a bad position by getting political and going after the trans movement. And I think that derailed his message, which was one of real psychological value: Take on the maximum level of responsibility to make your suffering worthwhile.

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
It seems simple. But i will drop it since i do get heated.


  I originally had thought i read that Jordon was in rehab for alcohol. Those benzos are damn addictive as well. I had not really heard anything since hearing he had gone in. He probably had easy access to them too.




He was addicted to alcohol and cigarettes when he was younger and he talks about how he needed to overcome those to become who he is today.

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Has anyone ever questioned how the Roman Catholic Church became one of the world’s largest religions? Well at the time when Jesus was around, the Roman Empire was huge. But hey, before you know it, head office is in The Vatican. That is some quantum leap.

A problem with religious texts is how they get translated and re-translated, each time the current political establishment like bias is applied, and after a few thousand years of these “Chinese Whispers”, you get a religious manual of dogma and control....

Jesus loves you, but if you stray from our chosen path, you will burn in hell for eternity. Ok, no pressure then.......

❤️
DJ Ed




I agree. If someone took Terrence Mckenna's Food of the Gods book and made a cult around it, that wouldn't discount the value of the book independent of the cult. Believe me, I have no love for organized religion, and even less for roman catholicism. But I believe that there is much to learn from our history and I believe that, in some way, the bible is an important part of human history (I mean, just like you said, it has changed the trajectory of time, in and of itself).

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
You also have to remember that people seized the opportunity of a population that was primed for that sort of thinking. The Christmas date was adopted around that time since they already celebrated the winter solstice? I'd have to look that up to be sure. But it was probably rather easy to just merg the cultures.

  Translations always pose problems. Any kind of information transfer is suspectable to manipulation. This is why logical reasoning for things is important.

  You know I love my wife but I'm also absolutely terrified if I step out of line. She threatens me with eternal torment if I for example have a lustful thought about another body be it male or female. She has also made me take my loving dog to a tall hill to sacrifice it's life to only have me stop at the last moment. She does this to show my neighbors how dedicated I am to her. Love it's a wild thing.




Interpretations are just as dangerous as translations. So the bible was interpreted and used as a control mechanism. Religion was established around it, constricting the common person ever more tightly.

But your last statement is interesting. Perhaps the "eternal torment" she threatens you for lusting after another is a metaphor for how instant gratification can cause permanent suffering, and how delaying gratification can lead to meaning. And sacrificing your dog on a hill to stop at the last moment? Maybe it's a lesson in the brutal sacrifices required in life.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
All that’s got to do with man’s ignorance, not with what the word God really points to - the great perfection of it all. (Yet another pointer to) that’s all words can do.  Gotta see past it.




Absolutely. Man sees a couple feet in front of him (metaphorically speaking). Kind of odd to think that such creatures can adequately interpret the cosmic or divine nature.


--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26801135 - 07/03/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

oh ye of little faith, a man can see beyond the stars if he holds still.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What are your thoughts on God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26801145 - 07/03/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
oh ye of little faith, a man can see beyond the stars if he holds still.




I agree, but I think it still holds true that the average person can't see much beyond their primal need to consume, shit and fuck.

But I feel there is a large minority that strives to see beyond. We see that in literature, music, certain culture, spirituality and psychedelic exploration.


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