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OfflinePsillyguys
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Open monotubs in fruiting room
    #26793472 - 06/30/20 01:24 AM (7 days, 18 hours ago)

Hi!

We have built a fruiting room and have some questions. We have some small scale experience with monotub production but wanted to step up to trays. But before jumping to trays we were thinking about growing with several monos in the fruiting room to get some more production under our belt. We have humidity, air temp, CO2 and lights on controllers in the room. Question: Once we have mixed our grain spawn with our pasteurized manure and have closed the tubs, can we use our environmental controls of the room to keep the interior environments of the monotubs at their optimum ranges? Do you think the humidity will pass through the poly filters into the tubs enough to hold optimum humidity levels without having to spray water in after colonization? Or should we just remove the lids after colonization?

Also searched for info on spray painting the bottom of the tubs vs. using plastic but couldn't find anything. It seems paint would be more efficient over time and have way less waste...?


Thanks in advance and we are really excited to be here!


Edited by Psillyguys (06/30/20 02:03 AM)


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: Psillyguys]
    #26793520 - 06/30/20 02:14 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

I would colonize them in the tubs outside of the fruiting room. Then place them in the fruiting chamber when ready. I would definitely remove the lid. I think really what you should do is take the colonized subs out of the tubs and remove the liner and place them on shelves in the fruiting room.


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OfflineStarz_PLURR
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26793669 - 06/30/20 05:37 AM (7 days, 14 hours ago)

Depends on the RH of the environment it is in.

The drier you are, the quicker it will dry out. Mush are water until dried.

So you want a good moister until the drying period. Pinning triggers are evap, temp drop and gas exchange (with light as a trigger, but it just points were they grow, wanna do some cool shit? turn your box a 1/4 every 3 hours)

You want humility to fluctuate, but dont wanna dry out


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Offlinemetaphoric
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: Starz_PLURR]
    #26793827 - 06/30/20 08:37 AM (7 days, 11 hours ago)

If you really have perfect conditions in your room then I agree with everything Spirit-Crusher said.


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:mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom::mushroom:
:mushroom:                  :mushroom2:                :mushroom:
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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: Starz_PLURR]
    #26793897 - 06/30/20 09:24 AM (7 days, 10 hours ago)

You don't need a "fruiting room" for monotubs. If you are using tubs you can fruit them anywhere.

It sounds like you are using the traditional style monotubs with the six hole configuration, 4, 1.5-2" holes right above substrate level and 2 holes at the top is how I did mine.
The substrate in a monotub will provide it's own humidity. The room humidity does not matter since we are growing inside the tub. I used to have many stacks of monotubs in a bone dry upstairs bedroom, I rarely needed to mist them.

You have to learn how to dial in a monotub.
In this format of tub the substrate provides the surface humidity, the holes provide the frequent air exchange and the poly fill is there to restrict the FAE.
It's all about balance. After spawning a tub, you want to start by stuffing the bottom polyfill in very tightly and the top very loosely.
There should be a layer of fine water droplets across the surface of the substrate at all times. The constant evaporation of this layer is one of the major pinning triggers.
I like to see that layer start to dry up immediately in front of the bottom polyfill, this shows that I am allowing the maximum amount of FAE I can before the surface will start to dry up. If the surface starts getting too dry, tighten the poly and give it a good misting to help it out.  If you start to see pooling in the surface, it's not getting enough FAE to cause sufficient evaporation - you need to loosen the polyfill.

It's all about balance. A properly dialed in monotub doesn't need to be misted.

Other points:

1. Pasteurizing manure is a big pain. Most of us prefer to use coir for cubes because it doesn't need to be pasteurized or sterilized, just heat treated with some boiling water in a bucket.

2. You don't need to paint or line the bottom of the tray. Light is beneficial at all points of growth to mushrooms. Side pins form because of the micro climate that forms between the substrate and wall of the tub. Proper surface conditions means little to no side pins (which people used to believe we're caused by light).

3. Lastly, how are you incoulating your grain? Spore syringes aren't clean enough for grain spawn. If you are going to be working with grain you need to be working with agar to germinate the spores and transfer clean growth to new plates to use as inoculant.

If you actually have a properly designed "fruiting room" you don't need monotubs. Just spawn your substrate in trays + let it do its thing.

Here is an old photo of a few stacked tubs in a spare bedroom. I would typically have 30 tubs in stacks of 5 with a floro light propped up vertical next to each, 6500K 12 on/12 off on timer.




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Edited by mushpunx (06/30/20 09:41 AM)


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OnlineA.k.a
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: mushpunx]
    #26794004 - 06/30/20 10:28 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

Yeah the whole idea with monos is to make a self contained environment. If you can manipulate the entire room then you wouldn’t need walled tubs at all just something to hold the substrate.


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OfflinePsillyguys
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: mushpunx]
    #26794016 - 06/30/20 10:37 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

You don't need a "fruiting room" for monotubs. If you are using tubs you can fruit them anywhere. We built the room for trays but we have never grown with trays and need to recoup some costs right away so we decided to do about 30 monotubs first.

It sounds like you are using the traditional style monotubs with the six hole configuration, 4, 1.5-2" holes right above substrate level and 2 holes at the top is how I did mine.
Yes

The substrate in a monotub will provide it's own humidity. The room humidity does not matter since we are growing inside the tub. I used to have many stacks of monotubs in a bone dry upstairs bedroom, I rarely needed to mist them.
We were just thinking after colonization we could remove the lids in that room but we're probably better off leaving them on.

You have to learn how to dial in a monotub.
In this format of tub the substrate provides the surface humidity, the holes provide the frequent air exchange and the poly fill is there to restrict the FAE.
Some people apply tape instead of the poly at first. We have used Poly. We have experience with your method.

It's all about balance. After spawning a tub, you want to start by stuffing the bottom polyfill in very tightly and the top very loosely.
There should be a layer of fine water droplets across the surface of the substrate at all times. The constant evaporation of this layer is one of the major pinning triggers.
I like to see that layer start to dry up immediately in front of the bottom polyfill, this shows that I am allowing the maximum amount of FAE I can before the surface will start to dry up. If the surface starts getting too dry, tighten the poly and give it a good misting to help it out.  If you start to see pooling in the surface, it's not getting enough FAE to cause sufficient evaporation - you need to loosen the polyfill.
Thank you :smile:

It's all about balance. A properly dialed in monotub doesn't need to be misted.
Good point.

Other points:

1. Pasteurizing manure is a big pain. Most of us prefer to use coir for cubes because it doesn't need to be pasteurized or sterilized, just heat treated with some boiling water in a bucket.
We have about 10 CY of manure and two large commercial fish totes with a steam generator plumbed in for pasteurization. It's not the cleanest substrate to work with but we already have all that. We just bought some bricks of Coco Coir to experiment with as well in some of the tubs.

2. You don't need to paint or line the bottom of the tray. Light is beneficial at all points of growth to mushrooms. Side pins form because of the micro climate that forms between the substrate and wall of the tub. Proper surface conditions means little to no side pins (which people used to believe we're caused by light).
I did not know this. I always assumed it had to be painted or lined. We will try unpainted/unlined this round. I was about to paint a bunch of new tubs this morning.

3. Lastly, how are you incoulating your grain? Spore syringes aren't clean enough for grain spawn. If you are going to be working with grain you need to be working with agar to germinate the spores and transfer clean growth to new plates to use as inoculant.
We have a lab with an 8' flow hood in our lab. Agar culture cloned and then transferred to sterilized rye grain and then grain to grain inoculation after colonization.

If you actually have a properly designed "fruiting room" you don't need monotubs. Just spawn your substrate in trays + let it do its thing.
We are just nervous about contamination and we still don't have solid answers on how to properly construct the trays. We have industrial shelving in the fruiting room. 4' long sections, 8' tall, 5 shelves, 30" deep. We've been told to use chicken wire in the bottoms and sides to induce growth out of every direction but that makes the trays more difficult to build properly so that they will hold up. The quick and easy tray would be a 2x8" wood framed bed but that would only grow out of the top. We are going for maximum yields. We also built a mixing room outside the fruiting room. The steam generator is in there and plumbed outside to the pasteurization totes where the manure is. Once pasteurized, we were planning to bring the bags of manure through the window into the mixing room where we would mix our grain spawn and manure into the trays and then wheel it into the fruiting room.

Here is an old photo of a few stacked tubs in a spare bedroom. I would typically have 30 tubs in stacks of 5 with a floro light propped up vertical next to each, 6500K 12 on/12 off on timer.


Thank you!






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OnlineA.k.a
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: Psillyguys]
    #26794020 - 06/30/20 10:42 AM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

It just seems way easier to use tubs. You could even get the huge 5’ long ones and still stack them.

Being able to stack them utilizes way more space unless you’re gonna build some type of mounted shelf beds.


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OfflineLikeMyc
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: A.k.a]
    #26794036 - 06/30/20 10:50 AM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

What kind are you growing?
Have you considered shallow tubs as trays?


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Offlinemetaphoric
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: LikeMyc]
    #26794100 - 06/30/20 11:35 AM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

If you contaminate its going to be because you didn't cultivate clean spawn. It won't be because of poorly constructed trays or monos or anything like that. Sounds like you've got good technique though so I wouldn't be too worried.

I agree with everything aka said though, monos are more space efficient because they stack.


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:mushroom:                  :mushroom2:                :mushroom:
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OfflineLikeMyc
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: metaphoric]
    #26794129 - 06/30/20 11:53 AM (7 days, 7 hours ago)

I think trays on shelves just high enough for growth will be better space-wise than monotubs. With monotubs you need occasional access to the top. But if it's wide open then top access is not needed and that extra room can be used for at least a fraction of another shelf.

This can be mimicked with tubs except horizontal space, unless you find a different shaped tub. Tubs are tapered at the bottom, so when you place tubs side by side, there is a gap at the base. That gap could have been used for cultivation. Even with shoeboxes you lose around 2"xL from one tub to another. Unless you find tubs that are not tapered.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: LikeMyc]
    #26794796 - 06/30/20 05:05 PM (7 days, 2 hours ago)

"Some people apply tape instead of the poly at first. We have used Poly. We have experience with your method."

Most of us stopped doing that years ago, taping up the holes during the spawn run.
I put the poly in directly after spawning my tubs.

  I don't use tubs with holes and poly in them anymore. I prefer unmodified tubs.


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Offlinemetaphoric
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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: mushpunx]
    #26794827 - 06/30/20 05:20 PM (7 days, 2 hours ago)

I think he was referencing micropore tape for fae, not duct tape for the spawn run


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Re: Open monotubs in fruiting room [Re: mushpunx]
    #26794869 - 06/30/20 05:46 PM (7 days, 1 hour ago)

Honestly, large beds sound like an enormous pain. And when something goes wrong, it's going to go wrong big.
Actual trays on shelves would be better IMO. Spawn the trays, set them on the shelf. It's what most people with greenhouse setups use.
Something like these: https://mycosupply.com/product/spawn-substrate-tray/


Cubensis is simple to grow. Really you don't need a climate controlled, humidified room to grow large amounts.
A simple room with shelving, some florescent lights and a bunch of plastic tubs is really all that is needed.
With large beds you need to be absolutely sure of your ability to produce 100% clean spawn, you are essentially putting all your eggs in one basket.
You can catch contaminants early in tubs, and simply pull it out, dump it, and wash with soap and water.
Tubs can be cleared out quickly and easily if needed to.

Just food for thought. It's good you are starting with tubs.
Get some experience managing large grows.
Monitor your B.E.


Edited by mushpunx (06/30/20 05:59 PM)


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