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Invisiblerob680
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Atrophy of inner faculties
    #26783756 - 06/26/20 08:06 AM (16 days, 31 minutes ago)

The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWRnzPddYA

@17:30, with regard to altered states:
...not necessary to get us us there and done irresponsibly, they will atrophy our inner faculties that allow us to achieve these States without these substances. so the judicious use of psychedelics are seen by many to be merely the reminder that these States exist that inner healing is possible that human consciousness is not static, but an ever ...


Unfortunately no evidence is given to validate the claim of "atrophy of inner faculties".

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts or experiences with regard to this.

Thank you


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Offlinepsyghtseer
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26783780 - 06/26/20 08:27 AM (16 days, 10 minutes ago)

We live in a place of 'existence' where pretty much everything is hypothetical, even things you think is easy to prove like what you had for breakfast or the fact that you did indeed post something to this website. It is tricky to prove. So the realities of how things like the inner mind after experiencing something or maybe the physiological effects of the digestion of substances is highly improbable to prove. And if you did somehow prove it, you would only be proving it for one specific instance and situation (in this case most likely being a specific person and a psychedelic compound) you could not prove it for everyone, and every compound vs everyone, the factors only multiply exponentially. We exist on a medium scale, too big to understand the inner workings of atoms and molecules and how our bodies process them to produce experiences, and too small to understanding the universe as a whole, and actually proving anything about any of this things, 'small' 'medium' or 'large' is extremely improbable at least in our current time and evolution. Basically I'm saying, one person could be "atrophied" by the same things another person could be "enhanced" there is no proof of either and/or both. The microchemistry and micromechanics involved in these situations are simply impossible for us to understand in the present. We could very well find out all the things we think we know or actually completely false and do not reflect the veracity of the true reality. Just as much as this person has made their own opinion open for discussion, I can proclaim that substances will only strengthen your inner faculties, but that would be my own opinion of my own experience, and I could be wrong just as much as the person claiming it atrophied me.


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"In my present state, awareness was not referred to as ego; it was, so to speak, on its own. This meant that the physiological intelligence controlling the body was also on its own. For the moment that interfering neurotic who, in waking hours, tries to run the show, was blessedly out of the way."

-Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblerob680
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: psyghtseer]
    #26783800 - 06/26/20 08:49 AM (15 days, 23 hours ago)

That's a fair viewpoint, psyghtseer, I agree atrophy of mental faculties isn't something that can be effectively measured at the current time.

The claim reminded me of something I heard in a Beatles interview once, sorry I don't have a reference, but it was along the lines of encouraging meditative practice after having experienced LSD, so as to continue to maintain a productive life.

This got me wondering if reliance on psychedelics might somehow make our natural faculties "lazy", and that one should continue flexing those mental muscles through meditation.

In my own experience (and I rarely meditate), I'd say there is an increased accessibility to, and awareness of, those faculties.

It stuck me as very odd to make such a bold assertion in the video.


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Invisiblerob680
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26783805 - 06/26/20 08:55 AM (15 days, 23 hours ago)

It also isn't clear what constitutes irresponsible use...


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26784167 - 06/26/20 12:01 PM (15 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

rob680 said:
The Magic of Mushrooms - A Psilocybin Renaissance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWRnzPddYA

@17:30, with regard to altered states:
...not necessary to get us us there and done irresponsibly, they will atrophy our inner faculties that allow us to achieve these States without these substances. so the judicious use of psychedelics are seen by many to be merely the reminder that these States exist that inner healing is possible that human consciousness is not static, but an ever ...


Unfortunately no evidence is given to validate the claim of "atrophy of inner faculties".

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts or experiences with regard to this.

Thank you




:callingbullshit:  basically - that's rubbish.


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Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26784175 - 06/26/20 12:04 PM (15 days, 20 hours ago)

You forgot to bold the done irresponsibly part. I don't think the atrophy term is accurate. They are talking about using the substances in an addiction forming way, or something else.


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26784202 - 06/26/20 12:13 PM (15 days, 20 hours ago)

Mental Faculties dull if one doesn’t use them, blaming that on psychedelics is missing the point and placing blame where there is none.


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The actuality of all experience is like a dream
and in its momentary groundless gleaming,
undeniably perceptible, it is uncrystallizing light-form,
a deceitful flash, a diaphanous form of emptiness.
Yet delving deeply we find neither truth nor falsehood,
for neither present nor absent, it is beyond all conception;
we know it like the sky, inexpressible, unimaginable,
fundamentally ever fresh and pristine.


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Invisiblerob680
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26784390 - 06/26/20 01:11 PM (15 days, 19 hours ago)

Thank you, all. I'm really appreciating your feedback on here.
Have a lovely weekend!


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26784419 - 06/26/20 01:26 PM (15 days, 19 hours ago)

thanks bro, you too :manofapproval:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26784611 - 06/26/20 02:30 PM (15 days, 18 hours ago)

NO ATROPHY unless abused by overdosing (always going for blackout or max hero doses), and screwing up your life by struggling through recovery and taking visions out of context, taking oneself too seriously etc. We need practice to see phenomena with equanimity, and to see ourselves with a sense of calm humor.

Without psychedelics you may discover how sweet the universe is naturally (if you do not take yourself too seriously), but with psychedelics you may discover the same sort of sweetnesses, although the psychedelic state of mind is established only while on the drug.

Finding that same sweetness naturally is more of a fluke, if it is not supported with some daily practice. Finding it on drugs is less reliable because you may not be ready to integrate it with wisdom.

I think I just wrote the same thing 3 ways


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OfflineInfiniteDreams
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26785186 - 06/26/20 06:37 PM (15 days, 14 hours ago)

While decent overall, this video makes some huge errors in places.  And you have pointed one out.  The video is trying to claim that a meme that was established decades ago.  Meditation is akin to psychedelics, psychs just get you there quicker, while then also claiming that psychs being drugs are inferior to practices such as meditation.  Classic case of wanting their cake and eating it too.

I think it is fair to say that psychedelics can offer similar benefits to such practices as meditation, but it is not a substitute or replacement for meditation.


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One quirky, cliched phrase.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26785212 - 06/26/20 06:46 PM (15 days, 13 hours ago)

IME they are synergistic, neither is a substitute for the other, and together they are even more useful.  :yinyang2:


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Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineInfiniteDreams
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26785249 - 06/26/20 07:03 PM (15 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
IME they are synergistic, neither is a substitute for the other, and together they are even more useful.  :yinyang2:




Extremely well put!


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Invisiblerob680
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26792943 - 06/29/20 09:00 PM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

Hi, thank you for all your replies.

There's a lot to be said for responsible use. IME the wisdom to integrate comes over time, sometimes decades. I had my first proper acid trip thirty years ago, three hits, enjoyed it thoroughly but I was too inexperienced to fully appreciate what it could have shown me. That sort of appreciation came with time. The visuals aren't that important to me so much now, as they seemed back then. They're just part of a greater message that's being shown, or at least that's how it seems to me.

I've never been one for excess, always tried not to push the boundaries too far. But I'm not sure meditation alone would have led me to the same places quite so readily. Then again, I don't speak from experience, as I'm such a procrastinator when it comes to meditation. The idea of regular practice is growing on me though.

Redgreenvines, spot on re. taking myself too seriously, I've been guilty of that. Coming to the realization that the "me" I thought I was is just a creation of mind, along with all that was seemingly on the outside. It can be torn apart and deconstructed, and what remains is truly beautiful.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, I'm finding it really hard to put things into words quite as well and as concise as you guys.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

I love this forum and its members.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: rob680]
    #26793518 - 06/30/20 02:12 AM (12 days, 6 hours ago)

Has the mushrooms taught you nothing? These states are not substance dependent. The mushrooms just allow you to experience pure terror, absolute nirvana and everything adjacent. With those experiences in the memory bank we can better deal with things in our physical reality;this is a thing I say.

Now, abusing these substances can lead down paths of delusion snd self grandeur. Can anyone say that's wrong of some one to do?


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Invisiblerob680
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Re: Atrophy of inner faculties [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26794246 - 06/30/20 12:44 PM (11 days, 19 hours ago)

Thanks for your input, bud


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