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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26818746 - 07/12/20 05:25 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

yours would be, because "superior" is not a feature of evolution at all.

any competition in any niche can be won by the creature best adapted to that niche at some critical moment, but the succeeding competitor's adaptation is better only in the momentary context. A minute later or earlier the winner would lose, so luck has a lot to do with it as well, and the vagaries of history.


apex in this whole thing is about predation, not about overall fitness to survive.

the Greenland shark evolved millions of years ago and is known to live 300 years,

this creature evolved so long before man that it is uncanny.

I wonder if individuals of our species will ever live that long, and what will civilization look like with so many methuselahs.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26820340 - 07/13/20 12:36 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

So thoughts have no purpose at all.. evolution has made a mistake.. the idea of thoughts is perfectly nothing.. or useless in and of the atomic  structure and function of the everything..

The everyman is born.. he asks.. why we can't cone to terms with each..


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26820452 - 07/13/20 04:23 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

you are reacting to the fact that your dreams are not reality, your wishers are not fishes, and your wants still taunt you.

you want to be god and are convinced you are not - so you want to be at the top of some other pyramid.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26821986 - 07/13/20 09:55 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Well.. the degree of power.. or apotheosis is always possible.. hence the title "God".. anyone with right perspective can attain this..

As for pyramids.. I love all good pyramids

But I might disagree with certain parts of the occult.. like homosexuality for example but I am still able to take the good parts of anything.

As far as dreams and reality..:

So, although the true sense of power or control in a dream is corrupted as awareness with confusing experiences the fact boils down to this..:

Dreams no matter how much they show your ignorance are STILL experiences..

And that makes them real..

Hmm, we need 8 hours of sleep per day.. and get tired regardless if we've spent energy at all..

So in conclusion..

Dreams may corrupt your notions of what life is and what it's meaning is..

But.. they are still experiences none the less.

Did you dream last night? Well of course you did... dreams exist as a hashing of internal files.. based on beliefs and potential!


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26829451 - 07/17/20 05:14 PM (28 days, 15 hours ago)

see (or rather, read) Daniel Quinn's Ishmael, if you haven't


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26829474 - 07/17/20 05:31 PM (28 days, 15 hours ago)

I'd put money on it that he has.

Fucking great book, I'd recommend it to anyone.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26829487 - 07/17/20 05:38 PM (28 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I'd put money on it that he has.

Fucking great book, I'd recommend it to anyone.






i would, too, but this whole thread screams of that contents of that book.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26829550 - 07/17/20 06:25 PM (28 days, 14 hours ago)

Yeah, I read it in the way-back. Quinn's ideas have stayed with me. But the thread was inspired more by watching nature documentaries lately.


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OnlineInnerWisdom
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: pineninja]
    #26830109 - 07/18/20 02:52 AM (28 days, 5 hours ago)

Actually there is evidence to show that hunter gatherers did not have the teeth problem we do, due to their better diet.
This is where I heard about this but it wasn't the first time:


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OnlineInnerWisdom
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26830119 - 07/18/20 03:07 AM (28 days, 5 hours ago)

So bringing this back to the original question; modern civilization appears to be less healthy for people on some areas, but more healthy in others: those areas where medical interventions save lives and improve health. But how many of the problems were caused by living in civilization in the first place? Bad diet, immobility and environmental toxins for example.
When or if civilization reaches its peak, the problems caused directly or indirectly by it before would also be solved. With knowledge and sufficient wealth people can live very healthy and happily today.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26830306 - 07/18/20 07:52 AM (28 days, 41 minutes ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
But how many of the problems were caused by living in civilization in the first place? Bad diet, immobility and environmental toxins for example.



Lots, I think. Seems often to me like trying to make the most of a bad situation.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26830626 - 07/18/20 11:43 AM (27 days, 20 hours ago)

caves are perfect but privacy is wonderful.
the compromise is fraught with situations that are not that hard to solve if you keep your expectations to a minimum.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26837078 - 07/21/20 08:50 PM (24 days, 11 hours ago)

Re OPs question

.  There is no such thing as civilization. All nations consider them selves superior to outsiders, but if one bothers to think--
.    Would you want to be a woman in an Arab country? Would you want to be a muslim in China? A Buddhist in Tibet-whoops, I mean China? A 'black' person in the south in the USA? Would you want to be poor and seeking 'justice' in  the USA? Would you want to be a 'black' person and seeking 'justice' in  the USA? Would you want to be a woman and seeking equal pay for equal work in  the USA? ....One can go on and on with just a little imagination.
.    ..Only because our minds have turned into gated communities, and our lives have turned into a small number of routines is it even possible, to think for a moment that humans in groups ever behave in what might be called a 'civilized' (or compassionate, intelligent, mature, poised, graceful, tactful, discreet, etc.) manner for more than a rather short period,  unless they feel they are being watched.
.    The English are supposed to a norther european, less emotional people, than the 'hotter blooded' folks in the Southern Mediterranean Europe, and to be  r  a  t  h  e  r  dignified, but anyone who has seen any of the sessions of their government on TV, knows them to be in actuality quite childish and immature, even when they know they are being watched!
.    Without enlightenment we are all pretty much stuck in some sort of selfishness, more often than we would like. Civilization only exists as an external show of glitzy baubles, like gangsta rappers and pimps, with their bling, and as the condition of the human world and planet show the human heart has remained untouched, for uncountable millenia.


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“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” or  “Science advances one funeral at a time.”
― Max Planck

"The situation is hopeless, but not serious."

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend,
inside of a dog its too dark to read."


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26837508 - 07/22/20 04:11 AM (24 days, 4 hours ago)

We can increase ourselves through our technology?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26837521 - 07/22/20 04:29 AM (24 days, 4 hours ago)

Can we know ourselves better with the tools we create?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: On what grounds is civilization a better way of life than a state of nature? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26838582 - 07/22/20 03:11 PM (23 days, 17 hours ago)

Re: BF

.    To both questions obviously not. 'Off the top of anyone's head', the quick answer is technology is used mainly (in terms of national budgets, by one measure) to make more lethal and larger weapons. And now smarter weapons, such as cyber war ( stuxnet, & nitro zeus etc.) and the next generation of robo-drones and spy satellite, and whatever the NSA & CIA, etc. are cooking up that we don't know about yet.

.    Apparently meditation helps some, to gain some more balance, insight, and equanimity than they had before, in their lives, if it is practiced consistently, and the guidelines are obeyed - but in spite of being available for probably about 2500-3000 years, it seems not to have had any great effect on our species as a whole.


--------------------
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” or  “Science advances one funeral at a time.”
― Max Planck

"The situation is hopeless, but not serious."

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend,
inside of a dog its too dark to read."


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