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OfflinePokazu
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I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?!
    #26783481 - 06/26/20 12:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I shaked my bags at 40% 3 of them and only one just start growing fast, the other 2 stopped with the colonization process what should I do? Should I inject again spores? GT


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Invisiblenix21
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26783539 - 06/26/20 01:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Post pics


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: nix21]
    #26785223 - 06/26/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

sure, as you can see in order the first picture is colonizing fast after the shake, but in the other hand the other 2 pictures stop colonizing they are only left with some white spots.



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Offlineredhandmat
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26785265 - 06/26/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

How long has it even been since you shook the grains until you took the pictures?


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: redhandmat] * 1
    #26785312 - 06/26/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

it has been only 5 days since I shake them, should I inject again spores?


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OfflinePhrontist
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26785336 - 06/26/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

40% is much earlier than I’d break up a bag, but even then, if they hadn’t started to bounce back after 5 days, I would assume there’s something else in the bag preventing it (bacteria).


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26785483 - 06/26/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pokazu said:
I shaked my bags at 40% 3 of them and only one just start growing fast, the other 2 stopped with the colonization process what should I do? Should I inject again spores? GT



no don't inject spores again. your bags failed because you injected spores into grain. learn agar and you'll have cleaner growth :thumbup:


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Offlineredhandmat
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26786281 - 06/27/20 03:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: redhandmat]
    #26786314 - 06/27/20 04:04 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Grains that fail to recover or stall after a shake are most likely infected with bacteria or mold (or both).

Spore prints are taken from fruits that were grown in open air, they will never be %100 sterile, and by extension neither will the spore syringes made from them. By using fruits grown indoors and following sterile procedure we can make spore syringes that are clean enough for BRF cakes, which are  pretty forgiving, and in my opinion this is the only real use for spore syringes over prints.

It's possible to grow on grains using an injection from a spore syringe but it is high risk for contamination, sooner or later you will lose grows this way.

Like the others said, if you want to use grain spawn successfully, learn agar first.


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: mushpunx]
    #26787722 - 06/27/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

😔😔 I will never shake a bag again, I dont know I do not use agar because I think its going to take me a lot of space.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26787745 - 06/27/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Shaking the bag didn’t do anything but let you know it was contaminated sooner. That first bag is pretty bad also, lotta bacteria but it could still work.

If you hadn’t shaken them they would’ve just gone bad in a week or two.


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: A.k.a]
    #26787837 - 06/27/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

well I think I need to level up my game with the spawn, Next time I Will try jars with agar. I just inoculate 2 bags to se what happens but well. The first bag has a lot of mycellium piss


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OfflineReverance
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26787877 - 06/27/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pokazu said:
I shaked my bags at 40% 3 of them and only one just start growing fast, the other 2 stopped with the colonization process what should I do? Should I inject again spores? GT




bro what temp are you keeping the bags at?

also this thread is kinda wacky to me. @FriedEgg , isnt it pretty commonplace to start spores on grain? I mean yes you have a higher chance of contam than if used agar but it works. I usually shake my bags at 20% and dont have an issue. My major prob I had was I let my temps get too high and growth just stopped in a few of my bags. I had one that colonized a whole bag inspite of very high temps, but like i said, all the others stalled.


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Reverance]
    #26787925 - 06/27/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

they are around 26-29c with 90% of humidity, I put them in the garden in my house it has a roof of protection.


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OfflineReverance
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26787993 - 06/27/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i
Quote:

Pokazu said:
they are around 26-29c with 90% of humidity, I put them in the garden in my house it has a roof of protection.




idk, if the temps exceed 29 you might have issues.were still talkin bags right? shoot for 25, you might have better luck


imo.


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Reverance]
    #26788098 - 06/27/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pokazu said:
also this thread is kinda wacky to me. @FriedEgg , isnt it pretty commonplace to start spores on grain? I mean yes you have a higher chance of contam than if used agar but it works. I usually shake my bags at 20% and dont have an issue. My major prob I had was I let my temps get too high and growth just stopped in a few of my bags. I had one that colonized a whole bag inspite of very high temps, but like i said, all the others stalled.




yea, a lot of people have success starting spores on grain until they don't. it works sometimes but it's just not reliable. it's so unreliable that most (maybe all?) experienced growers reach a point where they stop trying completely and just decide to use agar. most grain that was inoculated with spores is bacterial. sometimes you'll still get fruits with spores+grain but you'll often run into random problems like a few of your bags stalling at 70%. because you had a few successes with it in the past, you'll think it's a problem with your temps being too high or your sterile technique is off but in reality you probably got an unlucky roll of the dice from your spore syringe. :shrug:

the only time i start spores on grain is when i can't get the spores to germinate on agar. but after they germinate on grain i'll transfer a few kernels of grain to an agar plate to clean up the culture. cleaning up a culture on agar will increase your yields many times over and success will be much more consistent. since i started using clean agar cultures i can't remember the last time i had to throw away a grain jar.


and as long as your spawn is clean and you didn't overhydrate your grain, your bags should colonize fine at 30C. put them in a cooler room if you can but if you don't have an option it's ok. my room doesn't get below 29C in the summer and my spawn colonizes fine.

edit: sorry, you're partially right about the high temps. higher temps will be a problem if your grain has some bacteria in it, for example from a dirty spore syringe. but it's possible to grow in high temps, you just need to use clean spawn and be careful with your grain prep.


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Edited by FriedEgg (06/27/20 07:08 PM)


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OfflinePokazu
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26788132 - 06/27/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

thankss


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pokazu]
    #26788678 - 06/28/20 01:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pokazu said:
well I think I need to level up my game with the spawn, Next time I Will try jars with agar. I just inoculate 2 bags to se what happens but well. The first bag has a lot of mycellium piss





No such thing as "myc piss". That is metabolites which are excreted in the presence of contamination like bacteria, to try to fight it


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Reverance]
    #26788694 - 06/28/20 01:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Reverance said:
Quote:

Pokazu said:
I shaked my bags at 40% 3 of them and only one just start growing fast, the other 2 stopped with the colonization process what should I do? Should I inject again spores? GT




bro what temp are you keeping the bags at?

also this thread is kinda wacky to me. @FriedEgg , isnt it pretty commonplace to start spores on grain? I mean yes you have a higher chance of contam than if used agar but it works. I usually shake my bags at 20% and dont have an issue. My major prob I had was I let my temps get too high and growth just stopped in a few of my bags. I had one that colonized a whole bag inspite of very high temps, but like i said, all the others stalled.





It used to be common practice but it was always bad practice. As better information is made available to newcomers  less and less people cultivate that way. 

I don't think you realize just how commonplace bacteria (and often mold) is on spore prints and subsequently spore syringes until you start working with agar and have to transfer clean myc away from it!


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: mushpunx]
    #26789052 - 06/28/20 07:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Spore syringes can never be 100% clean is true,but for the fact that they are unreliable I beg to differ.i work with only agar now to improve yeilds an make sure my spawn is clean.i have done probly 50+ syringes from sporeworks straight to qt jars of rye. an outta the 100s of jars inoculated that way.I have had mabey 4 jars contaminate an only a few monotubs as well. All got 3 good flushes.soni get where you are coming from with saying they are never 100% clean but I'd say they are still pretty reliable with grain spawn and bulk in qts.iv never inoculated a bag with spores tho.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26789078 - 06/28/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If I may add another point, while it’s true that syringes are often not axenic enough to go directly to grain, something else to consider is the grain bag itself. Large bags of grain take far longer to sterilize than quart size jars of grain. In addition to needing much longer for the heat to penetrate that volume of grain, big grain bags are also at risk for things like:

Drying out
Going anaerobic
Developing pinholes
Generating too much heat

It’s my opinion that large bags of grain are an advanced tool meant to be used by experienced people for the best returns. Those who do find success with bags often use large amounts of live culture to capture the media quick as possible. That is where agar comes in. But even using agar one can find themselves struggling to make bags work consistently. They are an advanced tool, not a shortcut for noobs.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26789099 - 06/28/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Syringe to grain is heavily dependent on who made them imo. I got four syringes from the same place mentioned earlier and did 25-30 jars and never lost one.

But then other people seem to do everything right and get only mold with syringes from different places.


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26789113 - 06/28/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

not.  reliable.  at ALL.

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
But even using agar one can find themselves struggling to make bags work consistently. They are an advanced tool, not a shortcut for noobs.




I thought so.  seems advanced... I'm still on jars


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Edited by AtmozFear (06/28/20 08:05 AM)


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26789193 - 06/28/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If I may add another point, while it’s true that syringes are often not axenic enough to go directly to grain, something else to consider is the grain bag itself. Large bags of grain take far longer to sterilize than quart size jars of grain. In addition to needing much longer for the heat to penetrate that volume of grain, big grain bags are also at risk for things like:

Drying out
Going anaerobic
Developing pinholes
Generating too much heat

It’s my opinion that large bags of grain are an advanced tool meant to be used by experienced people for the best returns. Those who do find success with bags often use large amounts of live culture to capture the media quick as possible. That is where agar comes in. But even using agar one can find themselves struggling to make bags work consistently. They are an advanced tool, not a shortcut for noobs.



First off.... hey, buddy! :hi:

2nd.... are you saying that ppl who use bags use a lot of innoculant?

My typical sesh; i expand 2 master jars into 36 bags. It really doesnt take much inoculant. With a shake or two, here and there, my bags are typically ready in about 2 weeks, give or take a couple days. As long as my work is clean; i find using too much innoculant to be a waste. It doenst shave off that much time unless you use a lot. Giving the bags a shake a few days after knocking them up @ about 5-10% helps a lot. And then a 2nd break up and recovery about 10 days after inoculation. Helps them finish faster and also lets you know if they're not right, if they dont recover properly.

My current failure rate on spawn bags is prolly about 1% or less.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: LotKid]
    #26789215 - 06/28/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

All I know is in my experience if a bag takes two weeks to finish it’s often not a good result. I’ve never been able to run at the minimum recommend times for anything. Bags were a bit tricky for me to master. I needed a lot of inoculate and a fast run if I wanted to be sure of the outcome.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26789222 - 06/28/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Edited last post.

Hope you've been well, pasty!

#Fuck2020

But yeah... my bags typically go 2 weeks. And out of 100's i'm losing a small handful here and there.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: LotKid]
    #26789263 - 06/28/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I’ve never been able to get away with some things. Another issue I deal with is bags literally drying out. Even a T filtered bag would get a ton of dry grains on the top after 14 days. It’s even been an issue in grain jars albeit far less. Only solution I’ve found is speed.

I even stopped trying to G2G bags. I would make up a bunch of my EzLCs and let them get really thick. Then pour them right into the bag. Usually was about 250 ml of what was basically pure mycelium slurry. Would often seen recovery in 12 hours and full colonization in 5 days. Is the only way I do em anymore.

Not saying my way is the only way. But it’s what works best for me.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26789617 - 06/28/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

IME... when there's dry grains on top it's due to grains being underhydrated. I was having that issue for a lil. And i've seen underhydration cause lack luster performance as far as growth. Slow and weak. Then i got my hydration back on point and bags fully colonize for me again. Strong quick growth.

I stopped worrying about the amount of burst grains and started focusing on overall water content and bye bye dry top grains and slow growth. :rockon:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I shaked my bags and its not colonizing?! [Re: LotKid]
    #26789647 - 06/28/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I’m pretty sure the grains are perfectly hydrated. I just live in a very dry place. Seriously I never understood the point of coasters until I travelled a bit.


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