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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 1,212
Loc: In Between Space and Time
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: LobsterSauce] 1
#26782496 - 06/25/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have done it for over 4 years and have stayed at about 8 grams a day for the last year depending on pain levels. I was up to 12-16 but cut down because I noticed I would get very tired and irritable after 4 hours. I am no longer doing hard labor ether which has helped a lot. It is definitely better than the alternative but it does have it's dependency issues and a honey moon phase you'll never get back unless you abstain for quite awhile.
Not gonna lecture but if a person keeps increasing there doses for the euphoria due to tolerance thell get what they got coming. From what I've seen over the years is a common thread of 28+ gram a day and extract users ending up on the quitting Kratom forums. Also keep in mind many say they thought it wasn't addictive. (baffles me why people don't research the mind altering things they take that are peer reviewed) Yes caffeine is addictive, but the dependency withdrawals are a different spectrum.
There is a whole book (Kratom a plant of use not abuse) stuffed with peer reviewed articals/facts on it and letters to our representatives from addiction experts uncovering the reefer madness campaign the FDA/pharma industry has waged on the substance. It was almost banned in 2016 and was saved thanks to the grassroot protests and academic common sense/facts campaign.
If it brings better quality to ones life after taking it, than the current state or alternatives, then it's a no brainier. I personally don't recommend it being used for depression because the dependence will compound the depression and fatigue down the road when tolerance steals the euphoria, kid like feeling. Today the only time I get any euphoria is my morning dose or if I skip a dose and take some 8 hours later. It made me feel like a kid again at first, now it just continues to keep my back and pancreas pain manageable 90% of the time. I also catch colds far less often going from 4 times a year to one.
If it wasn't for kratom, my kidneys would be toast by now from OTC meds and most likely a 20% operational slave to full blown agonists from the black market. People can function in society with kratom, no nodding, affordable, safe, legal (mostly), and managable side effects that can be lessened with ashwaganda and valarian root if tapering or abstaining. I think the only meds I've taken in the last 4 years was a few antacids and some antibiotics. I still have 14 hydros, 20 ml of liquid morphine, that I have no desire to touch em recreationaly because I know better. I save the big guns for emergencies since doctors will not prescribe them anymore unless you come out of an operation.
Everythings got a down side to it, just got to weigh the pros and cons. If a person don't like mild anxiety and depression, they will hate the mild opiate related withdrawals far far worse from long term consistent use if they go cold turkey.
I fully support Kratom and education about it but do not support irresponsible use. If someone is gonna use it recreational, then use it recreational as the word is defined as in (occasional).
Nothing pisses me off more than people who take a substance, cannot handle there shit than blame said substance for there own irresponsibility and lack of self discipline. One side wants it out of public hands and another side claims that it is totally harmless. Both sides are full of shit and not helping the issue.
Here is the leading expert on on the plants properties for those who want to understand the pharmacology and the addiction spectrum of the plant better.
Take care, weigh the options. I can say with do doubt kratom is among the safer options but remember, not the only option for a long term solution. Some folks fix depression with simple exercise to get the juices flowing naturally, some folks cannot exercise riggerisly enough to achieve that due to pain. Some fix anxiety by turning off the tube and social media. Always try to find the root of the problem before throwing band aids at it for fear it will make the problem worse.
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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ninja cat 09
A paranoid android



Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 4,170
Loc: Mexico
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#26782642 - 06/25/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cannabis edibles with high amounts of cbd seem to kill my anxiety, maybe it's a better option. The only part I didn't like is that it sort of made it hard to think before I developed a tolerance.
Thanks a lot for such a detailed reply Zappa!
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: pickthepick]
#26782840 - 06/25/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
pickthepick said: I've done a pretty significant amount of research and it seems to me that it's a lot safer than things like alcohol use every day or cigarette use every day or opioid pills every day
Yes, but your post is about kratom vs. marijuana. I'm sure kratom does make you feel better than marijuana, but there's a reason for that. You're trading a substance that's physically non-addictive to a substance that binds to opiod receptors and is physically addictive.
Kratom is far better for you than traditional opiates, but that doesn't make it a good thing to do every single day unless you suffer from serious physical injury and/or addiction to other opiates. Saying it's better for you than other opiates is a pretty low bar.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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SpacetwitcFascicle
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Registered: 06/25/20
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I think kratom is great, but I think kratom is bad too. Really bad.
I think cannabis is still better than kratom. They are very different, and they are appropriate in different situations.
It is not reasonable to think people can go a decade using kratom every day with no problem. That's not realistic. Kratom is a strong opioid, and has a myriad of unique effects people are not familiar in dealing with. Many people do not know that mitragynine and related compounds can affect muscarinic receptors, calcium and other ion channels, serotonin receptors and targets, and most especially the variety of compounds within kratom that affect a variety of adrenergic receptors that mediate a significant portion of its effects.
While that type of modulation can be good for PTSD, anxiety, depression, and other conditions, it is still an addictive drug. Using kratom, in all likelihood, will be better than using heroin powders, tar, fentanyl, or even long term high dose pills like oxycodone, hydromorphone, etc.
The withdrawal is not a joke.
I repeat, the withdrawal from kratom is not always easy. It is similar but distinctly different from opiates and other opioids.
The first consideration is supply problems, since more than 95% of kratom is imported from Indonesia. Kratom is not regulated, and lab testing right now is still of poor quality, and inconsistent. Kratom is often cut with moringa, green tea, tongkat ali, Incarvillea, and a multitude of other powders to achieve different effects. Mitragyna contains multiple species, like parvifolia, javanica, hirsuta, speciosa, and a few others. It's possible if not likely that there are many different types of kratom with many different types of effects.
Withdrawing from the multitude of substances that COULD be in kratom is a separate issue.
Pure kratom withdrawal has a strong anxiety component not found in regular opioids/opiates, probably because of its adrenergic activity. Kratom seriously affects memory, this is documented in scientific literature, probably related to its adrenergic, muscarinic/acetylcholine and dopaminergic affinities.
It's not likely to be fatal, but it is possible to have minor seizures especially if combining with other substances. As it has been reported, very infrequently, death is possible with kratom in polydrug overdoses. This may not be the "always" outcome, but it must be acknowledged.
TL;DR - kratom is great, monodrug use is generally fine, don't overdo it/chase the dragon. Pot is definitely still better, safer, more fun. Kratom is addictive, but much less so than actual opiates or opioids. Beware your source and beware the product.
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire


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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: Learyfan]
#26782872 - 06/25/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do a lot less kratom then I did pot though, id go through $40 of weed a day and I go through $40 kratom in like 10 days, try to take too much kratom and you get the wobbles, so you gotta cut your use back
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,121
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: gopher]
#26782904 - 06/25/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh, I didn't realize marijuana cost more. Never mind. 
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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FSHuntings
Half Man Half Amazing


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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: gopher]
#26782913 - 06/25/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have never touched kratom even though it is everywhere in my area of USA.I have never even tried any opioids. I have smoked marijuana from age 12-27(present day). I do love marijuana but it has over time given me more and more anxiety after smoking. I remember being a teenager and it solved all my anxiety problems. Now, unless I have all my work done, it does the opposite. Every time I toke and I do not have all my tasks complete I feel like I am wasting time and not doing enough. My brain is like," Man, you need to do this is and this! Why are you high right now?" It is almost not even enjoyable anymore unless I smoke very little at night. This is coming from someone who used to smoke all day everyday from a VERY young age. Sometimes I do want to try Kratom but other times I read posts like this and it just isn't something I want in my life. Then again I do not get addicted to anything. I smoked cigarettes for 5 years and quit one day no problem. Same with chewing tobacco.
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/22/17
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: Learyfan]
#26782937 - 06/25/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: Oh, I didn't realize marijuana cost more. Never mind. 
thats like 7 good size joints a day though,or a shit ton more bong hits, I take kratom less then 7 time a day, I think kratom is much more milder too, weed makes me paranoid, its a pretty hardcore drug, kratom is subtle as fuck, I consider it harm reduction
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 1,212
Loc: In Between Space and Time
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: gopher]
#26783166 - 06/25/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The only things I don't like about weed is that it burns me out quick. I went from a 24/7 guy for 20 some years. The last 6 years, only at night or if I'm gonna veg out and play strategy games for the day. If I want to be physically productive and social; I avoid the seven finger couch punch.
Still love it but ya,, there is a time and place for it.
Smoking it does nothing for pain as far as I've experienced so I'm guessing edibles are the ticket. The CBD salv is nice for muscle aches but expensive in a trendy way. Seems kratom and weed share one thing in common though, The miracle plant that is touted to cure everything except greed and shit fuckery. /s
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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ninja cat 09
A paranoid android



Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 4,170
Loc: Mexico
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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#26784088 - 06/26/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
R.I.P.Zappa said: Smoking it does nothing for pain as far as I've experienced so I'm guessing edibles are the ticket. The CBD salv is nice for muscle aches but expensive in a trendy way. Seems kratom and weed share one thing in common though, The miracle plant that is touted to cure everything except greed and shit fuckery. /s 
Cannabis reduces my pain slightly, it helps me not focus on it, but it doesn't take it away. CBD on it's own doesn't help too much. I couldn't function at times without heavy doses of NSAIDS, and since the doctor says that NSAIDS make my problem worse, I'm stuck with paracetamol or kratom, since paracetamol doesn't seem to fully remove headaches unless I take pretty large doses I usually combine the two.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: I like kratom more than pot [Re: ninja cat 09] 1
#26784100 - 06/26/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Narcotics have their niche place, that’s the 1 out of 9/10 that I alluded to in my first post.
If you are using them appropriately in that context and nothing else works, or the side effects of other therapies & drugs more harmful than beneficial- more power to you.
At that point it’s about managing quality of life.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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ninja cat 09
A paranoid android



Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 4,170
Loc: Mexico
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Yeah, I agree. I think kratom has a place as a recreational drug, but it's like alcohol, it's much better after you take a break from it. I don't usually drink because it also gives me sinus headaches but when I do usually one beer or shot will get me as "drunk" as I want. It's also like alcohol in that it'll make you want to partake again the next day, but alcohol has more severe short term consequences.
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