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HamHead
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Why is this not being discussed??? 1
#26781132 - 06/25/20 04:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? (moved) [Re: HamHead]
#26781140 - 06/25/20 04:42 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from The Pub.
Reason: Belongs here.
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zZZz
jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,479
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26781142 - 06/25/20 04:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: zZZz]
#26781145 - 06/25/20 04:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: <img src='/forums/images/moved.gif'> This thread was moved from The Pub.
Reason: Belongs here.
Great. Shove it under a rug so no one will see. Great looking out for public health jokeshopbeard.
Quote:
zZZz said: POST ALL COVID RELATED STUFF HERE BRO
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26443955
I CAN'T!!!
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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polaritymind
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26781473 - 06/25/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could ypu explain in your own words, what this means, I dont get it.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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HamHead
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: polaritymind]
#26781853 - 06/25/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Right. So, a coronavirus vaccine is in the mix.
They have tested coronavirus vaccines on animals and they all produced antibodies. When the animals were challenged with the actual virus, their immune systems became hypersensitive to the virus and caused cytokine storms, leading to major problems.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions
Different disease, same concept.
Here's the problem with Dengvaxia.
Typically, a vaccine works by triggering the immune system to make antibodies against the virus. These antibodies then fight off the virus during an infection.
But dengue is a tricky virus. Dengue antibodies don't always protect a person. In fact, these antibodies can make an infection worse. The dengue virus actually uses the antibodies to help it spread through the body. So a second infection with dengue — when your blood already has antibodies in it — can actually be worse than the first; a person is at a higher risk of severe complications like plasma leakage syndrome.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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polaritymind
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26789954 - 06/28/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So explain a little more what leads to a cytokine storm. The example with dengue is pretty clear, but are you proposing that maybe Corona also has a similar mechanism? And in that sense no vaccine is bound to ever work, is that the point? Crazy idea, but would be very important to know, if true!
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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Tulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol
Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,628
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26829470 - 07/17/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: Right. So, a coronavirus vaccine is in the mix.
They have tested coronavirus vaccines on animals and they all produced antibodies. When the animals were challenged with the actual virus, their immune systems became hypersensitive to the virus and caused cytokine storms, leading to major problems.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions
Different disease, same concept.
Here's the problem with Dengvaxia.
Typically, a vaccine works by triggering the immune system to make antibodies against the virus. These antibodies then fight off the virus during an infection.
But dengue is a tricky virus. Dengue antibodies don't always protect a person. In fact, these antibodies can make an infection worse. The dengue virus actually uses the antibodies to help it spread through the body. So a second infection with dengue — when your blood already has antibodies in it — can actually be worse than the first; a person is at a higher risk of severe complications like plasma leakage syndrome.
interesting
there's no way in hell i'll be getting a COVID vaccine anytime in the near future, for a variety of reasons.
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Ice9
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: Tulipslave]
#26831375 - 07/18/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Corona, like Sars 1, is known to induce in certain individuals an over activation of the immune response leading to a cytokine cascade/storm. This was actually the cause of most of the deaths from the 1st SARS corona virus. It is less common with this virus, significantly so.
Also, convalescent plasma has been researched and used as a frontline treatment for the sickest already. It's effectiveness is debatable with conflicting studies.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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polaritymind
relaxed attention
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: Ice9]
#26838759 - 07/22/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well there is different kinds of vaccines right, dead and alive vaccines, sounds stupid but is how we call them here even in the hospitals etc. So, would this problem be applicable with a dead vaccine?
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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Tulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol
Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,628
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: polaritymind] 1
#26859036 - 08/02/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
polaritymind said: Well there is different kinds of vaccines right, dead and alive vaccines, sounds stupid but is how we call them here even in the hospitals etc. So, would this problem be applicable with a dead vaccine?
i don't buy tools the first year they come out. the majority of new products have lots of flaws, which often take years to correct. i'll let 100 million+ folks be the sample, and wait a year or so to see what happens.
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HamHead
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: Tulipslave]
#26861747 - 08/03/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tulipslave said:
Quote:
polaritymind said: Well there is different kinds of vaccines right, dead and alive vaccines, sounds stupid but is how we call them here even in the hospitals etc. So, would this problem be applicable with a dead vaccine?
i don't buy tools the first year they come out. the majority of new products have lots of flaws, which often take years to correct. i'll let 100 million+ folks be the sample, and wait a year or so to see what happens.
Vaccine induced ADE would be my guess.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Kryptos
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: polaritymind]
#26867243 - 08/06/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
polaritymind said: Well there is different kinds of vaccines right, dead and alive vaccines, sounds stupid but is how we call them here even in the hospitals etc. So, would this problem be applicable with a dead vaccine?
Yes, because a cytokine storm is basically an immune overreaction. The immune system is the problem, not the vaccine that allowed the immune response.
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sudly
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Posts: 11,254
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26896443 - 08/24/20 05:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Because there is no strong evidence that plasma antibody therapy can successfully treat COVID-19, or that, Quote:
The evidence is limited, because it’s still early days
Basically,
Quote:
A group of America's top health officials, including Dr Anthony Fauci, intervened last week to try to stop the authorisation because the evidence was too weak, the New York Times has reported.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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greenladel
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? *DELETED* [Re: sudly]
#26896462 - 08/24/20 06:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by greenladel
Reason for deletion: .
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
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Posts: 11,254
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: greenladel]
#26897232 - 08/24/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If haven't had corona already your immune system won't do much of anything to protect you.
Antibodies and all.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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greenladel
Registered: 05/27/20
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? *DELETED* [Re: sudly]
#26897303 - 08/24/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by greenladel
Reason for deletion: .
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
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Posts: 11,254
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: greenladel]
#26897787 - 08/24/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wtf no, you prepare for it with masks, gloves (used correctly), cough medications, contact tracing, testing and universal healthcare.
It is scary and a vaccine would go a long way in helping people.
Try preparing for polio by catching it..
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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CouchShroom
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? [Re: HamHead]
#26897805 - 08/24/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: Right. So, a coronavirus vaccine is in the mix.
They have tested coronavirus vaccines on animals and they all produced antibodies. When the animals were challenged with the actual virus, their immune systems became hypersensitive to the virus and caused cytokine storms, leading to major problems.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions
Different disease, same concept.
Here's the problem with Dengvaxia.
Typically, a vaccine works by triggering the immune system to make antibodies against the virus. These antibodies then fight off the virus during an infection.
But dengue is a tricky virus. Dengue antibodies don't always protect a person. In fact, these antibodies can make an infection worse. The dengue virus actually uses the antibodies to help it spread through the body. So a second infection with dengue — when your blood already has antibodies in it — can actually be worse than the first; a person is at a higher risk of severe complications like plasma leakage syndrome.
But the authors of the article you posted state, explicitly, that SARS-CoV-2 infection doesn't seem to behave in this way. in their own words:
Quote:
Unlike the above-mentioned viral diseases, there is neither clinical nor epidemiological evidence in humans to suggest ADE of CoV infection in severe disease. Re-infection with human CoVs has been observed and there is no report that sequential infection is more severe than primary infection. Likewise, there is also no evidence to suggest that the severity of SARS or MERS is linked to baseline cross-reactive CoV antibodies
and from their concluding remarks:
Quote:
While experimental evidence to prove or disprove immune enhancement as a pathogenic basis of severe Covid-19 remains to be obtained, current knowledge on the mechanism of ADE and immune enhancement collectively suggest that the risk that hyperimmune globulin or a highly efficacious vaccine pose to exacerbating disease is low. Most descriptions of ADE occur in experimental settings without strong clinical support.
From my interpretation, the message this paper is trying to send is essentially "this is very likely not going to be an issue, but we should still do our due diligence and make sure this risk is mitigated when designing/testing vaccines"
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greenladel
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Re: Why is this not being discussed??? *DELETED* [Re: sudly]
#26898198 - 08/25/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by greenladel
Reason for deletion: .
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