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Darwin23
INFJ



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Pedophila
#26780961 - 06/25/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I watch a handful of pedophile-catching vigilante channels on Youtube. The videos are endless. It's as if the internet is full of them in every city. Despite watching hundreds of these videos with these pedophiles, I still haven't determined why. Why is this so widespread? What do pedophiles get out of it? The developmentally delayed 20-year-olds trying to meet a 15-year-old are few and far between. The great majority of those caught are middle-aged and trying to meet 12,13,14-year-old children.
What do you think drives them?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Why do people like chocolates? because they're sweet.
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Darwin23
INFJ



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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Why do people like chocolates? because they're sweet.
Sure, but I don't much see what that has to do with this. Having a fetish is one thing but if that fetish hurts people and can destroy your life, I'd assume you'd be less inclined to do engage with it. Yet, decoy profiles are always inundated with people willing to harm others and take that risk themselves.
That's what I don't understand.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Maybe we would be better off in this argument if we invited RedGreenVines in to determine which of our arguments is rational or merely associative. Do you agree?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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I am curious how you guys became captivated by the subject.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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I guess it's pretty much self-evident in this case that the hostile witness is fueled by an emotional quotient.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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perhaps proto-pedo?
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Darwin23
INFJ



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I'm not necessarily perplexed by the fact that people can feel attracted to children (I'm not into feet but can understand and accept that tons of guys are). I'm perplexed by the fact that so many act on those impulses. I certainly am coming from an emotional perspective because I consider it harmful and abusive.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Will you compare your attitude to the popular "Reefer Madness" attitude in the 50's and allow that it has the possibility of evolving?
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Darwin23
INFJ



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How is it similar to the "Reefer Madness" attitude of the 1950's? Are you suggesting that sex with children is perhaps not as harmful as I feel it is and so I appear to be overreacting because I'm overestimating the damage it causes?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Quote:
How is it similar to the "Reefer Madness" attitude of the 1950's?
If the media didn't excite an emotional anti-marijuana fervor by it's portrayal of reefer-madness then I would agree that the cases are dissimilar-But they're not.
At this time do you agree with these similarities and the manipulations the media has on popular opinion?
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Darwin23
INFJ



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Do I agree that could be influenced by manipulation by the media?
Sure, probably to an extent.
Why don't we have a discussion instead of a debate? I feel like you're trying to get me to state some fact to then come back with "Aha! logical fallacy!" I'm open to ideas
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Okay, for what it's worth we have brought in the possibility that the media inflates an emotional response.
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Darwin23
INFJ



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I believe that's fair. At the same time, though, the videos out these days are very factual and follow identical formulas (backstory - chat logs - confrontation - predator calls partner/parent/sibling or gets arrested).
This dude does tread a little dangerously as he sexualizes the chats while most others will don't want to take the risk of being in entrapment territory. This one is also a bit unique because there is a news statement from one of his former victims while most who are caught are just anonymous.
To go back to part of what I can't wrap my head around, here is one of the top comments: "Dude is in a band. Older emo chicks would be fighting over him (I've seen it myself) WTF you wanna be messing with a 13 year old."
They'll always give an excuse but never their true motivation which is why I'm so confused by it. If you're attracted to younger looking girls, go for an 18-year-old who maybe looks younger. That's not a crime and that's not harmful, at all. This semi-famous lead singer obviously had options but consciously chose a 13-year-old while knowing that it very well could ruin his life and fuck her up.
The drive and thought process behind someone making that decision is what I want to understand.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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When our wellbeing is controlled by state-media there's a possibility that 'understanding' is remote.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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why do you feel compelled to get closer to this particular corner of experience? the mind's afflicted behavior becomes a pattern, then, yes the habit kicks in, who knows, maybe he started by reading accounts of pedophiles.
I think the line of inquiry will not bring you much peace, and may actually get you a piece of what you should keep clear of.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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For a perspective- the relationship you have with a dog is purely between the two of you; it's like that with a child. Grown-ups have ulterior agendas.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Holy fuck my running thoughts would go absolutely nuts and I would feel so fucking ashamed if that was me in the video. Jesus christ.
I have some hebephile tendencies and I think most men have - it's completely normal but I would never act on it and I'd much rather pick older women around my age 20 - 40. I'm mostly turned off by the immaturity of young girls but I never had sex in my puberty with a girl in puberty so something attracts me slightly more than normal to young girls but I have no particular interest in them and when I see a beautiful 12 - 16 year old girl I think to myself that she is beautiful and if I was 12 - 16 y/o I would definitely hit her up, but I think nothing more of her. My hebephile tendencies are of no concern to me - thank God!
Darwin23: it's simple, the dude in the video seems to be exclusively attracted to girls in puberty and maybe even younger and only slightly or not at all attracted to older women, if he's more than just slightly attracted to older women, he's looking for a thrill and his sexual orientation got the better of him. It's important to remember this whole thing is just as natural as age consent sex. Being exclusively attracted to girls in puberty and even younger girls must seriously suck big time, I sympathize with the dude in the video if his intension was to make love to the girl and obey her and not just fuck her and leave her after that. Like Icelander once said: No harm, no foul. 
The men and women over at virped.org are seriously heroes in my world.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Confession: I remember back when I was 20, I was browsing 4chan and the likes and I saw pictures of naked girls in puberty ages 12 - 16, I jacked off to it 5 or 6 times. It was thrilling but there was absolutely no way I would ever try to hit up a girl in puberty IRL at that time - in fact I was and am turned off by the young bodies and psychological immaturity, it's kind of a catch 22 since I found the pictures on 4chan intriguing. But it's not really a catch 22 either, since I had never seen a naked girl in puberty, it was fascinating. I'm 30 now and can't fathom looking at such pictures again, it feels very wrong and I feel sorry for the young girl having naked pictures of herself uploaded on the Internet. Even looking at 18 year olds in porn makes me feel bad, they may be 18 but surely most of them are not mature enough to consent in pornography.
Now a days I jack off to Facebook-pictures of ex'es and women on my friend list. It fills the thrill I seek in masturbation and it feels right. On the rare occasion I jack off to regular porn but it doesn't feel right.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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pepperoniphilia
This may sound like a dumb question - but do pedophiles not enjoi sex with people their own age or something?
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Pedophiles and hebephiles exclusively attracted to young girls enjoy the sensation on glans having sex with an older woman but that's pretty much it - I assume.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:

pepperoniphilia
This may sound like a dumb question - but do pedophiles not enjoi sex with people their own age or something?
Why don't you share with us what you masturbate to? I'm sure you have filthy and unethical thoughts yourself. That noway and popcorn-smiley is kind of rude to post IMO.
I open up for y'all to enlighten yourselves and get a better understanding of this.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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When I do watch I prefer a somewhat vanilla intercourse, oral sex, and to a lesser extent anal sex with individuals who are more or less my own age. Lesbian porn can be alright too. All that other brutal & grotesque & dehumanizing stuff belongs in the garbage imho 
My worst?
Downloaded porno called “Bible Black” and “ Cool Devices “ back in the days of Napster/Kazaa/Lime-wire, those were by far the most kinky erotica shameful fucked up porn I’ve ever masterbated to- and they were damn cartoons! I’ve forgotten most of the content but I remember it being wild & fucked up - and with ridiculous themes/stories to boot. If I’m in the mood but there are no potential suitable lovers around to play & lay with, then my imagination suits me much better then porn does these days.. Thanks for sharing your opinion & experience.
Edited by The Blind Ass (06/25/20 09:58 AM)
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Thanks for sharing your opinion & experience.
Likewise, also thanks for accepting my inquiry.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Pedophilia is when you see naked children in fluffy cloud formations.
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InnerWisdom



Registered: 08/09/19
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Loc: North EU
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Quote:
Darwin23 said:
What do you think drives them?
Pedophilia and some kind of empathy inability, inability to be compassionate.
On a deeper level, I think there is something related to their childhood that makes them pedophiliac and makes them act out of their desires.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Pedophilia is when you see naked children in fluffy cloud formations. 
True.
Or follow them literally wherever they go.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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“No harm no foul”. I think that would be the argument in favor of pedophilia. Yet consent is a dicey thing for a 13 year old. Age 18 is at least somewhat arbitrary.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Say "baa" if you agree to have sex.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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I never said "moo" for evil running thoughts.
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



Registered: 11/30/18
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They’re fucked in the head. That’s it.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Quote:
SporeJunkie said: They’re fucked in the head. That’s it.
Would you cut their air hose if you were diving next to them?
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



Registered: 11/30/18
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I wouldn’t make it that far. Id have their head beat in with the tank before they got their feet wet.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Talk's cheap.
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



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If I knew for a fact they were a pedo then I wouldn’t give a fuck at all
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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There's more than one loony cohabiting this forum and you just swelled the ranks imo. Quote:
fucked in the head.
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



Registered: 11/30/18
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Lol you got that right, buster.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Quote:
SporeJunkie said: They’re fucked in the head. That’s it.
Chill man...it's just a personal preference some people have...we all have our own preferences...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



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That’s true. I shouldn’t judge.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Rome could have used someone like Huehy to turn Hannibal away from the gates of Rome after he had crossed the Alps on his elephant.
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



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Apple sauce licks donkeys for diamonds covered in rust covered cherries. Don’t not believe me? Answer the problem told to the board that wizards lick on with their toenails. Hello
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
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Loc: On the Border
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Rome could have used someone like Huehy to turn Hannibal away from the gates of Rome after he had crossed the Alps on his elephant.
I rode an elephant once...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Rome could have used someone like Huehy to turn Hannibal away from the gates of Rome after he had crossed the Alps on his elephant.
I rode an elephant once...
And here you be filing them (rowing)
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WASTE

Registered: 12/15/19
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I can empathize with pedophiles to an extent, no one is born wanting to develop an attraction to children yet it happens. Just try imagining the self hatred and confusion that would arise from having a socially taboo and immoral sexual attraction which you have no control over. But I have a harder time extending sympathy to those who act on those urges, I would still want for them to receive help and counseling (as I would rapists, murderers, ect.), but any sexual conduct lacking consent is wrong in my eyes.
Some related questions: How do we decide the ideal age of consent? Which societal forces lead people to develop pedophilic complexes? How do we mitigate these forces? What is a broad definition of pedophilia that isn't influenced by law? Is pedophilia wrong in and of itself?
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: Pedophila [Re: WASTE]
#26785185 - 06/26/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems nature given puberty would have the legal age lowered a bit..
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



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Re: Pedophila [Re: WASTE]
#26785215 - 06/26/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Empathize or sympathize? I can sympathize to an extent just because I feel like a lot of times they’ve had fucked up child hoods or what not. However, I stop sympathizing completely once they cross the line front fantasy to actually harming a child. In whatever way that may be.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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I wonder how it was regarded in the Old World & how prevalent it was back then.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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evlyshrooms
willi weilii



Registered: 08/08/19
Posts: 2,272
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Yeah im glad im not a pedo. Must be rough being attracted to a demographic that would be severely damaged by you acting on your desires. Constant mental battle I'd imagine
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WASTE

Registered: 12/15/19
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You're right, empathize may be too strong of a word in this case. But thinking about queer people and mixed race couples, a lot of people can generally relate to the experience of being attracted to a person/demographic who society/friends/family deem to be off limits (due to faulty moral reasoning), causing a sense of shame for an attraction they feel implicitly. I think we can empathize with them to that extent, but not when they act on those pedophilic urges.
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



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Re: Pedophila [Re: WASTE]
#26785542 - 06/26/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well yeah I totally feel ya there
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Acting on pedophyllic urges = harm to young person ?
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SporeJunkie
Pöåšt Šhïttēr



Registered: 11/30/18
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I hate to respond to this right now because I’m fucked up and don’t wanna screw up my response but here goes: not inherently, no. If there are already inappropriate photos of minors that people get off to, then I don’t necessarily that act in and of itself harms children. However, anyway/anyhow that point is led up to is definitely harm to a young person. It’s just not natural.
-------------------- Royale with cheese
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Okay, for what it's worth we have brought in the possibility that the media inflates an emotional response.
The media is irrelevant here as a causative factor. Neither is it relevant with individuals who have normal, healthy moral development. I worked with adolescents for almost 30 years. Many of them had been raped. Several of them had been incestuously raped, one delivered her biological father's baby. Often the sexual abuse began around age 10 before secondary sexual characteristics had developed. Once a child has secondary sexual characteristics, technically it is not called pedophilia but ephebophilia. Age isn't the issue specifically. I've seen a 13 year old who was 5'11" tall with a figure like and 18 year old girl. When she spoke you then realized how young she actually was. Her mother was beside herself for all the males hitting on her.
But my point is that children who are sexually exploited at an early age often do not develop normally and healthily along several developmental vectors. Pathologies set in with precocious sexuality. Moral development is interfered with, the ability to trust is interfered with. Significantly severe abuse can result in Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly, Multiple Identity Disorder). Often early sexual experience leads to the victim becoming a sex worker. A majority of sex workers sustained child sexual abuse. I tried to counsel a junior high school boy and his sister who had been sexually abused. Neither would open up about it. He went on to rape a very young family member and since it was not reported to the police and he was not dealt with he went on to rape another baby and killed it. He was sentenced to life in prison. https://www.rapsheetz.com/florida/doc-prisoner/COLON_JUAN/445612 There are few things worse than pedophilia and for the life of me I can't think of any.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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evlyshrooms
willi weilii



Registered: 08/08/19
Posts: 2,272
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What a vicious cycle. Sexually abused children grow up to sexually abuse children. Sad
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WASTE

Registered: 12/15/19
Posts: 114
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Acting on pedophyllic urges = harm to young person ?
How about: adults engaging in sexual acts with pre pubescent children = harmful to those children? Maybe MarkostheGnostic can throw us a few studies, I'm not super educated on the topic and found his post to be very informative. My basis for classifying all sexual acts between children and adults as immoral rests on my belief that children are incapable of consenting to sexual acts, and that all sexual encounters lacking consent are harmful.
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Apples in Mono
Not a puppet


Registered: 09/21/17
Posts: 3,240
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I think it's important to avoid conflating our impressions of what we see represented in media with the the general state of things in reality.
Most pedophiles probably never touch children, and most people who sexually abuse children aren't pedophiles.
I think the most important conversation we can have regarding pedophiles today is about the counterproductive stigma surrounding them. people need to realize that demonizing pedophiles, as opposed to child predators, only creates an environment in which pedophiles don't feel safe communicating about it with anyone. We need pedophiles to feel comfortable speaking with mental health professionals and support groups instead of being made to feel like unacceptable freaks who need to hide from society. Instead of trying to give them psychological help, we effectively work to push them into psychological decline, which is only a good way to minimize impulse control.
In addition to limiting our ability to provide them with mental health treatment and social services, we also limit our ability to study them or to even count them, and we do it in the name of protecting children. That's backward af. We need to know who they are BEFORE they harm children if we'd like to prevent it. And in order for that to happen, we need them to feel safe talking about it. That won't happen until a whole lot of people realize that the current stigma is counterproductive. There's also nothing virtuous about shitting on innocent people for the extreme misfortune of existing as a pedophile, which it surely must be. Society's perspective on pedophiles is largely a bigoted one
Edited by Apples in Mono (06/27/20 12:17 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Posts: 14,279
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Re: Pedophila [Re: WASTE]
#26786093 - 06/27/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, children are legally not considered to be of an age of consent for sex, for tobacco, fo alcohol, for owning firearms or driving and all for very sound developmental reasons. Children are sexual beings and they will unabashedly touch themselves and masturbate. But for an adult to cultivate (groom) children for the performance of sexual acts for the adult's perverse pleasure is illegal because it is immoral. It is immoral because it is not compassionate and it causes psychological damage. To sexualize the personality before other important affective, cognitive, and moral stages are adequately developed, all kinds of aberrations of personality can develop.
I had a girlfriend who was so promiscuous I had to break it off with her. She talked about Freudian things like polymorphous perversity, "a psychoanalytic concept proposing the ability to gain sexual gratification outside socially normative sexual behaviors. Sigmund Freud used this term to describe the sexual disposition from infancy to about age five."(Wiki) But as it turned out she was repeatedly molested prior to the age of five by an older sister. The pleasurable sensations were mingled with a deep sense of shame which is a common reaction to those who have been sexually abused and one I see frequently in my clinical practice. The 'shamed child' is created and there are different ways of dealing with the shame, often unhealthy ways.
In her case she became the precocious child who acted seductively and played 'show me your's and I'll show you mine.' Hitch hiking as an adolescent she was raped at knifepoint but rather than the event creating caution in the future, she would go out seeking a repetition of the violence to herself. A repetiton compulsion "is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats an event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again." (Wiki) Guys on my dorm floor told me they'd seen her late at night walking along the highway in nightgown. She would try to recapitulate the trauma, ostensibly to gain control but eventually becoming a street-walker, a call girl, and a. MC gang mama who took gang rapes by Hell's Angels and violence to herself from heroin injection and racking up STDs. Her's is a fairly common story for many whose early childhood experiences are similar. She remains a sex worker today in her 60s running an escort service.
My only judgement is that I fell for her hard but she was too damaged to ever bond with someone in any committed love relationship. She was also Borderline Personality Disordered which has its origins according to Margaret Mahler's developmental theory of Separation-Individuation in parents being emotionally and/or physically absent during very early stages of development. Whether she chooses her lifestyle or is operating under compulsion, both options are rather enslaved to disturbed psychological dynamics harkening back to premature sexualization and her parents' absence and failure to protect her.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Society's perspective on pedophiles is largely a bigoted one
big·ot | ˈbiɡət | noun a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions
This is one of those exceedingly rare instances where the definition of bigot is actually justified when compared to the "opinions" of the perversity of a NAMBLA member for example. The sexual desires of a pedophile when acted upon are beyond any doubt destructive to individual children and to the adults they become. Since psychotherapy is ineffective, partly because there is an Antisocial element to the pedophile who does not experience conscience, remorse, or empathy towards a young developing child, more physical treatments are in order to protect society from their damage. This includes so-called 'chemical castration' with Depo-Provera. I personally do not encourage physical violence towards these people but I am not a parent.
In Miami there was until last year an enormous population of sex offenders living under our Julia-Tuttle Causeway. It was a creepy underworld of banished sex offenders because nobody wants a child-molester living near their kids and for really good reason - nobody wants their child sexually molested. Pedophiles have unnatural tendencies that cause very real damage and they have become beings who are completely identified with their unnatural urges. Their "opinions" on sex with children do NOT have to be heard and certainly not agreed to. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article237545129.html http://ange-bleu.com/en/the-pariahs-of-miami-beach
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Apples in Mono
Not a puppet


Registered: 09/21/17
Posts: 3,240
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My usage was more along the lines of:
big·ot | \ biɡət a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
But I'm not particularly interested in the semantics of the term.
I thought I made it plenty clear in my post that I think we should do the best we can to minimize the sexual abuse of children.
Nambla obviously does not represent pedophiles in general.
I'm not sure what it means to call pedophilia "unnatural', or what the significance is either way. I think it very much looks to be a part of the nature of some human beings. But I think what is relevant is that it isn't a choice. And the statement that they "have become beings who are completely identified with their unnatural urges" is an unfounded one. Many pedophiles- perhaps most- have the same opinions on sex with children as the rest of us- that it's abusive, deeply harmful, and entirely unacceptable. Once again, most adults who sexually abuse children aren't pedophiles. And we have no reason to believe that most pedophiles will sexually abuse children.
I guess I'm not really sure how else to respond, other than referring back to everything in my previous post. I hate to say it, but with all due respect, i think yours is the sort of counterproductive position I mentioned.
I don't want pedophiles hiding and dissociating. I want them to open up and speak to mental health professionals and to have healthy relationships. And I don't think there's anything immoral about existing as a pedophile
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
But my point is that children who are sexually exploited at an early age often do not develop normally and healthily along several developmental vectors.
"Normal" being determined by healthy mindsets who will not stop at cutting the airhoses of those they disagree with, and promoting compliance thru fear of consequences.
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Oldnameforgotten
Traveler


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Reminds me of "Brave New World". (Children have sex with each other for "playtime")
We are kinda taught to dislike pedos rather than just having it as known behaviour. I see a lot of people in this thread blanket-statement calling it rape here to make it easier to vilify. Rape is obviously bad. The discussion should be about consensual.
I think people who are attracted to young kids are just representing a common need in our psychological profiles to procreate with whatever we can before enemies get their seed in. A child that young could bare YOUR children if you have sex with it.
It could also be from an awkward childhood. Maybe you didnt have sex when young and you want to experience what it would have felt like.
Either way I dont think its objectively "wrong". Its definitely society-driven outrage. This is assuming its not rape and you discuss with the child what is happening and what sex is. We just live in a world where children arent taught about sex in this way. Probably because we hate pedo's so much. That and sex is a super taboo thing for some reason.
Cyclical.
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OOISI
Suburbanaut


Registered: 03/21/04
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Quote:
Oldnameforgotten said: Reminds me of "Brave New World". (Children have sex with each other for "playtime")
We are kinda taught to dislike pedos rather than just having it as known behaviour. I see a lot of people in this thread blanket-statement calling it rape here to make it easier to vilify. Rape is obviously bad. The discussion should be about consensual.
I think people who are attracted to young kids are just representing a common need in our psychological profiles to procreate with whatever we can before enemies get their seed in. A child that young could bare YOUR children if you have sex with it.
It could also be from an awkward childhood. Maybe you didnt have sex when young and you want to experience what it would have felt like.
Either way I dont think its objectively "wrong". Its definitely society-driven outrage. This is assuming its not rape and you discuss with the child what is happening and what sex is. We just live in a world where children arent taught about sex in this way. Probably because we hate pedo's so much. That and sex is a super taboo thing for some reason.
Cyclical.
Pedophilia is definitely a sickness. I dont hate pedos but they are definitely sick individuals.
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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evlyshrooms
willi weilii



Registered: 08/08/19
Posts: 2,272
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Re: Pedophila [Re: OOISI]
#26786409 - 06/27/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Perhaps there's a 'cure'
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OOISI
Suburbanaut


Registered: 03/21/04
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The cure is to not be pre-occupied with sex. Very simple yet very difficult.
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Quote:
Oldnameforgotten said: Reminds me of "Brave New World". (Children have sex with each other for "playtime")
We are kinda taught to dislike pedos rather than just having it as known behaviour. I see a lot of people in this thread blanket-statement calling it rape here to make it easier to vilify. Rape is obviously bad. The discussion should be about consensual.
I think people who are attracted to young kids are just representing a common need in our psychological profiles to procreate with whatever we can before enemies get their seed in. A child that young could bare YOUR children if you have sex with it.
It could also be from an awkward childhood. Maybe you didnt have sex when young and you want to experience what it would have felt like.
Either way I dont think its objectively "wrong". Its definitely society-driven outrage. This is assuming its not rape and you discuss with the child what is happening and what sex is. We just live in a world where children arent taught about sex in this way. Probably because we hate pedo's so much. That and sex is a super taboo thing for some reason.
Cyclical.
Hey, "Might is Right". Compliance or do without air is the fear of God. Sex with kids is entertainment in a "Do as You Would Be Done By" world.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
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Doesn't seem that complicated, mostly subconscious I think.
Pretty much this right here:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: the mind's afflicted behavior becomes a pattern, then, yes the habit kicks in
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
But my point is that children who are sexually exploited at an early age often do not develop normally and healthily along several developmental vectors.
"Normal" being determined by healthy mindsets who will not stop at cutting the airhoses of those they disagree with, and promoting compliance thru fear of consequences.
I truly do not understand what you are saying here. Normal human development precludes later application to social mores and legislation. But no modern society condones the sexual abuse of its children. Why is this even being questioned?
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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A good question is..
Because people hit puberty(the ability to have sex and conceive) around age 13..
The biology is there to allow a young girl to have a baby.. that might attract some men via natural selection..(they would term is as a young fruit or ripe)
The next question is.. how can ppl be attracted to prepubescent children..?
Why are they attracted to chikdren?
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
SporeJunkie said: They’re fucked in the head. That’s it.
Chill man...it's just a personal preference some people have...we all have our own preferences...
Quote:
SporeJunkie said:
That’s true. I shouldn’t judge.
Markos is still hung up on judging a great time between consenting individuals as "abuse"; well, someone has to judge, why not me?
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Perhaps there is a professional obligation towards a certain analysis that is in play..
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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A purist might insist that we are mature enough to judge for ourselves..But there will always be divisions of opinion I suppose, so what do we do? Try it your way then my way? Or can there be a higher standard set by 'Higher' intelligences; I believe in them; perhaps we can consider an electoral college, such as the one who elected Trump, to be an example of higher intelligence.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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It may be safe to say that the “higher intelligences” is something that can be removed from the equation. That may be the case.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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I'm sure there is a reason for everything and for all I know that may be it.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Markos is not "hung up" about anything on the subject of pedophilia. You seem to be defending it. There is no legal defense for acting out pedophiles and it is immoral in the extreme. Pedophilic sexual abuse needs to be dealt with such that the offender is unable to be near children at all, or is rendered sexually impotent, or is isolated from society. These options are more compassionate social responses than the understandable violence that parents would understandably visit upon their traumatized and damaged children. Children are not developmentally capable of making consensual decisions about their bodies. They can be groomed which is to say manipulated but the result to their further development is severely interfered with and damaged. Child molesters are depraved and pathetic beings but I've never known any "sympathy for the Devil" to be extended to this kind of perpetrator from anyone other than the few professionals who endeavored to render them harmless.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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In the Big Picture someone has to make a decision whether the route we are taking in that regard is the better one. My guess is that you think it is.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: In the Big Picture someone has to make a decision whether the route we are taking in that regard is the better one. My guess is that you think it is.
Thank God you are not the arbiter of morality, mental health and legality with regard to this. My thoughts are in alignment with all three and consonant with other professionals in the three respective domains of the spirit, the psyche, and the law.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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What is your criteria in judging whether a child(a being) can understand yes and no?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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I've always found this a trolling subject. Very few people support pedophiles but due to the grey area in the subject it quickly dividends those who mostly agree. Arguing this is a bad excuse for a flame war. Get smart guys and quit beating this ass of a horse
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Oldnameforgotten
Traveler


Registered: 10/19/19
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I've always found this a trolling subject. Very few people support pedophiles but due to the grey area in the subject it quickly dividends those who mostly agree. Arguing this is a bad excuse for a flame war. Get smart guys and quit beating this ass of a horse
I think objectively it is fine. But subjectively I disagree with it vehemently.
And I think thats what happens when the conversation starts. We all try to be objective as possible and pedos dont seem that bad.
But if it were taking place in front of us we would be horrified. Watching the manipulation of the child.... the slow building of creepiness....
But SURELY..... SURELY.... this is a taught thing. We are taught to be horrified by it. I dunno. Either way I'm still horrified.
Its like that bacon thing. Yall know that bacon thing? Some guy ordered a shit ton of pork because it was cheap not realizing he was only getting pork belly. So he made a massive ad campaign about how everyone should eat bacon in the mornings. Just so he could sell his bacon. Bacon at the time was a "nasty" meat that no one wanted. And here we are today STILL loving bacon. I know this story very well. I am 100 percent aware that I like bacon only because of some guys ad campaign. And yet.... I still like bacon.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Quote:
Oldnameforgotten said:
I think objectively it is fine. But subjectively I disagree with it vehemently.
An analogy could be the child in revelation 12 -The woman gives birth to a paradigm based on emotion as the driving force as opposed to reason.
It's the old battle of controlling our emotional reactions and xenophobia etcetera (along with perhaps some skeletons in the closet)
Edited by Buster_Brown (06/28/20 07:04 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26789080 - 06/28/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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seems to me possible to be frozen in the mind of a preteen, or partially, so this is a psychiatric domain, but when left at large, it is a danger for children whose consent maturation is limited to ice cream selection, or video channel.
these people (pederasts) need treatment and isolation from the innocent.
after covid, we will probably se a rise in isolation options that are unlike incarceration.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: redgreenvines]
#26789088 - 06/28/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
these people (pederasts) need treatment and isolation from the innocent.
As are murderers, and if intent is all that is needed to identify a murderer...etc
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26789127 - 06/28/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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there can be a range of intent, from mere conception of possibility through the creation of reminders and obsession into the core of premeditation and finally the taking of steps to engage and commit banned inter-social behaviors.
all need help, some require isolation from communities of vulnerable parts of society
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: redgreenvines]
#26789177 - 06/28/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think weighing alternatives constitutes intent so conception wouldn't imply guilt imo. Obsession might indicate desire tho.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26790956 - 06/28/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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What are we to do with underage children who want to have sex or engage in sexual activity?
Should we just show them some pornography and tell them to wait till their older?
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WASTE

Registered: 12/15/19
Posts: 114
Loc: PNW
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Re: Pedophila == arrested development [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26791001 - 06/28/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just because a child wants to do something doesn't mean its good for them. We generally presuppose that children are unable to make the best decisions for themselves, thats why we have restrictions based on age. From a consequentialist standpoint, the risk of trauma and harm is too great to allow for a sexual free for all, and even if there are exceptions to the rule we have no way of knowing which children are able to do that without being harmed in some way during the process.
Encouraging people to fucking others in their age group seems pretty reasonable to me. I think it's probably good to have sexual experiences with people that have roughly the same level of life experiences, leaves less room for coercion and abusive power dynamics (though they still exist obviously).
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: What is your criteria in judging whether a child(a being) can understand yes and no?
I don't understand the question. Children, like non-human beings learn verbal cues. My cat understands the word no which is accompanied by a loud, abrupt tonal quality. Human comprehension of these verbal cues changes by degree based upon their cognitive ability at specific points of their development. No is first associated with a negative reinforcement, a punishment. This follows a basic pleasure-pain, reward-punishment power dynamic. It is only gradually that the reason for not acting a certain way begins to dawn on children. A spank on the bottom for a toddler escaping his parent's hand and running into traffic is the only comprehensible thing at an early age. The toddler doesn't get that [s]he'll get run over. In fact an adolescent counselee was stupidly stepping out into traffic to fuck with cars at age 12 or 13 and she got hit and had her leg broken because even at her age she had no comprehension of stopping distances for cars moving at different speeds. Not the brightest of kids to be sure.
Yes and no are different categories than the right and wrong dualism of moral development, a development which has been amply demonstrated to proceed according to invariant stages in over 300 separate cultures (see Lawrence Kohlberg's work).
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Well I belive there is a link between right and wrong and yes and no..
Something that is wrong has a no attached to it..
Something that is right.. should have a yes.. or an option to say yes attached to it..
So therefore much like binary codes of lengths of mixed codes interchanging ons and offs 1's and Zeros!
It should be this basic to understand.. in my opinion..
The correct means of selection.. making correct choices in a world of Good and Evil..Even know evil has an Eve in it.. but I don't know what that means..
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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when something really significant comes along we will redefine childhood, at the moment our definition of childhood does not include consent for sex or marriage or full culpability in murder.
so, nothing compelling in the field of pedophilia is making us change our stand on this.
sexualizing childhood is not ok even if it makes some predator happy.
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Dorfnob
J.U.I.C.E.


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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: when something really significant comes along we will redefine childhood, at the moment our definition of childhood does not include consent for sex or marriage or full culpability in murder.
so, nothing compelling in the field of pedophilia is making us change our stand on this.
sexualizing childhood is not ok even if it makes some predator happy.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,556
Loc: Utah
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The only good pedophile is a dead pedophile.
Pedophilia has to be genetic, there's no other explanation. I've been avoiding this thread just because the topic is so disgusting and disturbing that I don't even want to think about the existence of pedophiles and pedophilia. It's like thinking about the worst parts of mankind and realizing that there really are terrible people doing terrible things in the world. It's depressing and disturbing and disgusting all rolled into one. The idea that anyone could hurt a child (let alone like that) is just one of the most depressing things I can think of.
A lot of pedophiles don't seem to be able to control themselves, and when they can't control themselves they destroy people's lives, they hurt children in the worst ways imaginable, and some even kill little kids to cover their tracks. Since we have no treatment for pedophilia and since we can't risk harm to kids, it seems to me that the only thing we can do is to remove pedophiles from society, permanently. Throw them in jail and throw away the key.
I'm a believer in nonviolence and I try to be a good person and to have empathy and sympathy for others, but pedophiles really test the limits of my beliefs.
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Oldnameforgotten
Traveler


Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
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Quote:
nooneman said: The only good pedophile is a dead pedophile.
Pedophilia has to be genetic, there's no other explanation. I've been avoiding this thread just because the topic is so disgusting and disturbing that I don't even want to think about the existence of pedophiles and pedophilia. It's like thinking about the worst parts of mankind and realizing that there really are terrible people doing terrible things in the world. It's depressing and disturbing and disgusting all rolled into one. The idea that anyone could hurt a child (let alone like that) is just one of the most depressing things I can think of.
A lot of pedophiles don't seem to be able to control themselves, and when they can't control themselves they destroy people's lives, they hurt children in the worst ways imaginable, and some even kill little kids to cover their tracks. Since we have no treatment for pedophilia and since we can't risk harm to kids, it seems to me that the only thing we can do is to remove pedophiles from society, permanently. Throw them in jail and throw away the key.
I'm a believer in nonviolence and I try to be a good person and to have empathy and sympathy for others, but pedophiles really test the limits of my beliefs.
I'm shocked with 12k posts you have this level of mental weakness.
You cant possible fathom a reality where our hatred of pedos stems from brainwashing? Think of sex as a normal act like playing catch or hugging. Its possible we have been repressed sexually into putting this shit into taboo sections.
If a child.... 10 years old WANTS sex with an adult.... and we didnt see that as this evil thing.... I mean.... thats the conversation going on here.
I am anti-pedos of course. I dont like them either. But lets not pretend we arent brainwashed into thinking that way.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,556
Loc: Utah
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Wow, triggered much?
That's some sick pro-pedo bullshit you're trying to sell there. It's not brainwashing, pedophilia is sick and disgusting and wrong. And any normal human being would feel the same.
You come in here, you claim that you're anti-pedo, but then you spend the whole thread trying to defend pedophilia. And then you get triggered by me saying we should lock pedos up and throw away the key. Gee, I wonder why you'd be so angry about that...
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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I think we should burn them at the stake. If we burned them alive a lot of it would stop. I was recently talking to a really pretty woman and she told me her grandfather sexually abused her growing up .. It also happend to some of my family members.
I get upset even thinking about this subject. People are straight up evil!!. Even if you dont get physically raped,people end up raping your mind through bullying and they get off by causing you mental pain. I'm honestly surprised people want to live forever. Even if you're born in a regular family this place sucks unless you're away from society...
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Pedophila [Re: Shenmue]
#26793628 - 06/30/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said: Even if you're born in a regular family this place sucks unless you're away from society...
Insecurity can result in a domineering façade supported by pack mentality in search of a strong leader. Competitive/protective/insecure nature produces hardliners: "Better dead than Red" etc.
Progressives have to accept the reality of the limitations of character that nature will throw in their path. The weak of course become strong and the strong weak, and we try to learn by the history of our mistakes.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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can we put a cork in this thread: advocating death for thinking certain way is exactly what is wrong with society, however not advocating death for pedophiles does not make pedophilia OK.
hopefully somebody agrees with that.
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Oldnameforgotten
Traveler


Registered: 10/19/19
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Loc: Pilbara Australia
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Quote:
nooneman said: Wow, triggered much?
That's some sick pro-pedo bullshit you're trying to sell there. It's not brainwashing, pedophilia is sick and disgusting and wrong. And any normal human being would feel the same.
You come in here, you claim that you're anti-pedo, but then you spend the whole thread trying to defend pedophilia. And then you get triggered by me saying we should lock pedos up and throw away the key. Gee, I wonder why you'd be so angry about that...
If you were told since day 1 on earth that 10 year old girls need to have sex with an adult to prepare them for adulthood you would have no problem with it.
Like come to the real world with me. Or sit there and bitch about me being triggered.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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flexible much?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Darwin23 said: I watch a handful of pedophile-catching vigilante channels on Youtube. The videos are endless. It's as if the internet is full of them in every city. Despite watching hundreds of these videos with these pedophiles, I still haven't determined why. Why is this so widespread? What do pedophiles get out of it? The developmentally delayed 20-year-olds trying to meet a 15-year-old are few and far between. The great majority of those caught are middle-aged and trying to meet 12,13,14-year-old children.
What do you think drives them?
I read none of the thread - except for your starting question
for me the question is what drives or drove you to
Despite watching hundreds of these videos with these pedophiles?
Ever wonder about that? Especially when obviously you can't find an answer by doing so ! hours and hours of your time.... Odd way to spend your time I think .... hm ....
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greenladel

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laughingdog
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. Meanwhile hormones in milk & cheese accelerate puberty.
. As regards "legit (sic) peadophiles think they love the children, " apparently you live in a fantasy world, with no human trafficking, no sadism, no child porn, and everything in neat categories. . So your "a big fan of psychology". Seems like a big fan of ivory tower psychology, with a nice helping of prurient interest.
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greenladel

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laughingdog
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My view is simple, with the limited resources the world has to help people, those resources are better used helping the victims than the perpetrators.
Of course the Catholic church does the opposite - which makes them perpetrators themselves. And of course the church is still in business world wide. Doing all sorts of harm.
So I question the motives of those whose sympathies go with the perpetrators, and I question the motives of those like the OP who have a fascination with the perpetrators and admit to watching hundreds of hours of video on the subject while doing nothing for the victims.
That people who commit victimless 'crimes' ( like smoking weed) are put in prison, while the Pedophilic christian church flourishes, is one of the great hypocrisies of our times. I shed no tears for the abusers and traumatisers of innocent children. This is not a perfect world, where everyone can always be helped. A responsible & mature & intelligent person can make difficult choices, understand both compromise and priorities. Unfortunately our society cannot and the simpleminded want to ban abortion, blame women for rape, and coddle sick disgusting priests who ass fuck little boys.
There really is no reason to have such a thread here at all.There are no qualified experts in the field here. Any intelligent person with a real interest in the subject will not find what they are looking for here. There are very obviously better places where informed psychologists on these types of issues are to be found, assuming one is still dead set on helping the perpetrators rather than the innocent victims, and exploring what are frankly the revolting details of the subject.
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OOISI
Suburbanaut


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Quote:
laughingdog said: There really is no reason to have such a thread here at all.There are no qualified experts in the field here. Any intelligent person with a real interest in the subject will not find what they are looking for here. There are very obviously better places where informed psychologists on these types of issues are to be found, assuming one is still dead set on helping the perpetrators rather than the innocent victims, and exploring what are frankly the revolting details of the subject.
If there were 'qualified experts' we wouldnt have this problem in the first place.
I can tell you the problem and it is quite simply 'a preoccupation with sex'. It is that simple. I can add to that a lack of virtue/conscience.
I can also tell you that these people would value their own pleasure quite highly and would disregard consequences of obtaining their own pleasure.
These are quite basic observations. Yet i believe they will ring true with any sensible man.
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Pedophila [Re: OOISI]
#26803378 - 07/04/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OOISI said:
If there were 'qualified experts' we wouldnt have this problem in the first place.
.
Simply nonsense, there are plenty of smart folks, but most are dumb. Having some 'qualified experts' doesn't raise the consciousness of the masses.
As I said: "There really is no reason to have such a thread here at all." It is just like fly paper, or a roach trap. If that is what the monitors wish to have in this nook, of a website devoted to consciousness expansion, so be it - apparently allowing it will continue to attract those who resonate with such vibes. Other than to point out what is going on, and how the Catholic and related Christian Churches tie in, whether we like it or not, and how that implicates all their followers as having less than completely honest intentions, I have no further interest in this matter.
God & smut seem to go together like "white on rice", & as far as I'm concerned they can have each other.
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



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Is a 30-40 year old having sex with a 10-15 year old during the middle ages considered pedophilia?
Good points you made greenladel. On the Power Complex and The legit philia aspect. I'm also fascinated by the subject.
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greenladel said: i think legit peadophilia is still dregs of our primitive history leaking into modern times. many years ago people did not live nearly as long as they do now, so nature wants us to procreate earlier. we needed to get the job done before it was too late and before the opportunity was gone. i think in a couple of centuries peadophiles how we understand it will not exist any more (for the most part), but whos to say the legal age of consent will not go up too? which in turn will cause another stage of peadophile.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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BrendanFlock said: Well I belive there is a link between right and wrong and yes and no..
Something that is wrong has a no attached to it..
Something that is right.. should have a yes.. or an option to say yes attached to it..
So therefore much like binary codes of lengths of mixed codes interchanging ons and offs 1's and Zeros!
It should be this basic to understand.. in my opinion..
The correct means of selection.. making correct choices in a world of Good and Evil..Even know evil has an Eve in it.. but I don't know what that means..
The English word evil and the name Eve in the Bible which was in Hebrew originally should not be conflated. The English name Eve is derivative of a Latin name and the Hebrew name sounds nothing like the Latin except in meaning: Eve /iːv/ is an English given name for a female, derived from the Latin name Eva, in turn originating with the Hebrew חַוָּה (Chavah/Havah – chavah, to breathe, and chayah, to live, or to give life). The traditional meaning of Eve is "living".
I understand (0,1) but in praxis, morality and its codification as ethics is never (0,1). You round a corner while walking down a street and you see two people, one is slumping down a wall the other is slapping the face of the slumping person. Your first impression might be a moral judgement that 'this is wrong!' But you'd be right for the wrong reason. The slumping person was losing consciousness from a drug overdose and the person slapping the slumping person's face was doing so compassionately to inflict enough non-injurious pain to keep the slumping person from slipping into a coma before the ambulance arrived.
Anything and any given human act is not intrinsically good or evil, it is the intention behind the action that partakes of the binary notion. There is no gray area in actual intention only in the manifestation. The decisiveness would be one's "True Will" to use Aleister Crowley's term. There can be no "meh" in the decision to attempt to save someone's life or to fail to act. Well, I'll swim to this drowning person but I'm not gonna sweat it. If I get there in time good, if not 'Oh well.' Such indecision does exist of course and would be extreme cognitive dissonance, a human will unable or unwilling to commit to right or wrong, good or evil and hence immoral given the circumstance. Ambivalence in a life-death situation is moral retardation (psychopathy). The purely evil reaction was manifested a few years ago when some guys jeered and laughed at a drowning man instead of doing anything to help. Callous indifference is what the law calls it. I call it human evil. https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2017/07/20/teens-filmed-mocked-drowning-man-cocoa-police-say/495518001/
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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greenladel

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Re: Pedophila *DELETED* [Re: OOISI]
#26804271 - 07/04/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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OOISI
Suburbanaut


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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
OOISI said:
If there were 'qualified experts' we wouldnt have this problem in the first place.
.
Simply nonsense, there are plenty of smart folks, but most are dumb. Having some 'qualified experts' doesn't raise the consciousness of the masses.
As I said: "There really is no reason to have such a thread here at all." It is just like fly paper, or a roach trap. If that is what the monitors wish to have in this nook, of a website devoted to consciousness expansion, so be it - apparently allowing it will continue to attract those who resonate with such vibes. Other than to point out what is going on, and how the Catholic and related Christian Churches tie in, whether we like it or not, and how that implicates all their followers as having less than completely honest intentions, I have no further interest in this matter.
God & smut seem to go together like "white on rice", & as far as I'm concerned they can have each other.
Well i perhaps worded that badly. But if there was people who knew why this is so and how to cure it (what i would call an 'expert') than i believe we would have solved or be currently solving the problem.
No true Christian would rape or be pedophilic. The bible teaches to get married and not have sex out of marriage. Apparently God killed Onan for ejaculating on the ground. The gist of the bible to me teaches only having sex for the purpose of procreation.
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greenladel said:
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OOISI said:
I can tell you the problem and it is quite simply 'a preoccupation with sex'. It is that simple. I can add to that a lack of virtue/conscience.
it is far more complicated than that.
If people werent preoccupied with sex as a means of obtaining pleasure, and only had sex for the sake of procreation things would be vastly different. There would be far less, or even no pedophiles. I believe by conscience we are aware that exploiting non-fully developed human beings is wrong. Ive seen 60 year old men with 20 year old girls and my interior balks at this. Having sexual relations with someone young enough to be your child, i think to a sane person, is wrong. An unhindered natural progression should lead elderly people to not be preoccupied with sex. They should be helping people through their life experience and not trying to get in their pants.
So by logic, i think if we add non-preoccupation with sex, with a healthy conscience the problem would be solved. I believe a healthy conscience would prevent people from wishing to have sex with people who havent attained the age of responsibility or even wishing to partner with someone many years older or younger.
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: Pedophila [Re: OOISI]
#26804432 - 07/04/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The trouble with good and evil..
Good vs evil?
Courage and bravery to face the evil.. and smite it with full force.. dark vs light.. essence vs existence.. what is within existence? Essence by far and then take me to the essenes!
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greenladel

Registered: 05/27/20
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Re: Pedophila *DELETED* [Re: OOISI]
#26804636 - 07/05/20 05:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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OOISI
Suburbanaut


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greenladel said: every christian has their own version of christianity. everything in the bible has an opposite, also in the bible. the purpose is so that anybody can relate to it. as much as the bible says sex only after marriage, it also pretty much says that children do not count, which is why so many priests etc have used it as a loophole to rape children. i am not saying that is what all christians are like, not even close! i am just saying that christianity does not outlaw it, and similarly, christianity itself cannot be blamed for it, only the methods used within christianity. unfortunately for good religious people, they are tainted with the actions of the bad ones that use their book to justify it. even if the book did directly say not to do it there is still the confession loophole. best bet is to use your own judgement, not that of somebody from thousands of years ago.
Ill exclude your other points, but where does it say children do not count?
These people are definitely twisting the bible. The fundamental tenets of being christian is: To love God and to love your neighbour, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you wish, i can provide quotes.
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greenladel said: if we only had sex for procreation then we would see more peadophiles. some girls have their period as young as 12 (probably sometimes even younger), which means they are ready to procreate by nature. i personally do not want to see humans driven by procreation only.
If people were having sex less, than pedophelia would decrease. I do not see your logic. I am no expert, i dont know statistics, but i can assure you the majority of pedophiles arent intending procreation. And how could you even argue that in the case of pre-pubescent children?
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greenladel said: 20 year old women are 100% developed enough to have a baby and have a sexual relationship with anybody they like. it is weird to see a 60 year old with a 20 year old, but that is usually 2 people who are both using the other person for selfish means, its very rarely a legit relationship, but it is mutual and consensual, so good luck to them. i also believe elderly people should be able to have as much sex as they want. what age would you say was too old for sex?
My point was that, by conscience, such a relationship is wrong. You yourself just affirmed that in saying such a scenario is 'very rarely a legitmate relationship'. In my opinion, naturally the desire for sexual relations (preoccupation with sex) diminishes in elderly. An old person that isnt interested in fucking young people is more developed morally, than one who is intersted in fucking young people. As i get older i see more and more the vanity of self-pleasure and the greater need for something significant, which usually entails privation and suffering. They can have as much sex as they want, i agree, but id be far more receptive to the counsels of an elderly person not obsessed with sex than one who is. I struggle with desire for sex, so if im looking up to someone who has experienced life and can offer me help to overcome the problems of life, im far more inclined to that one who actually has overcome those problems.
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greenladel said: what exactly is a healthy conscience? the problem with that is everybodys opinion of a healthy conscience is completely different. i think that 60 year old in your example should have no guilt, but you think he should, so whos morals do we go by? that said, i think we can both agree the people who control our accepted morals right now certainly are NOT the benchmark in morality! my point is just that the term "healthy conscience" is relative to the person defining it. i do, however, think there are some things that most of us can agree on without even discussing it, which i think is what you mean. that 12 year old, whos womb is technically fully functional, should be protected from peadophiles in most peoples opinion, but the line is a blurry one.
As i quoted before, the Christian edict "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an excellent means for establishing the basis of a healthy conscience. Also i believe it is by conscience that we know having sex with children is wrong. Killing people is wrong. Stealing is wrong. These are principles of conscience. And if there is any question to this, killing or stealing unnecessarily are definitely wrong. There is definitely grey area, but there is also areas which any sane individual would agree upon.
Conscience says do not kill anyone, except possibly in the case of survival or protection of self or others. If you disagree with that or think that is subjective, then i cannot really help you.
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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greenladel

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Re: Pedophila *DELETED* [Re: OOISI]
#26804778 - 07/05/20 07:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everything Is One
Registered: 07/05/20
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Pedophiles are souls too. Not supporting sex with children. But they're marginalized and its pretentious morality. Most souls willingly eat animals raping them in jail/cage and painful death. Plus you're all pedophiles too. Remember Bill Hicks? Everything's the same soul throughout infinite entities. Just one of us there. Therefore pedophile hate is immature and unhelpful. Just a talking point to throw hate towards in their own hypocrisy
-------------------- "The boundaries of space and time are all in our minds. We all are one, everything is one."
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Kickle
Wanderer


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So how would you protect your children from a neighbor who was a pedophile without some form of pre-judgment? Would you prefer to not be informed by the laws that have been imposed on pedophiles who move into a neighborhood? Would you rather find out from your child who tells you? Or from the neighbor family who falls victim?
Just wondering how you'd approach this. Because I agree with a lot of what you said. But I don't agree with inaction around clearly harmful outcomes. And I do not think all judgement is a denial of one's connectedness but often times a result of it. If I know what you do has consequences that are harmful for another and I feel obligated to act in ways to prevent this, then I am acknowledging that what is good for another is good for me.
A sign of losing this connection is when none of it matters IMO
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Everything Is One
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Re: Pedophila [Re: Kickle]
#26805640 - 07/05/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's beyond judgement to protect kids. It's the kill and hate pedophile trope. I agree already with what you and others say. Just not unconscious hate and stigma. Got to treat them respectfully and try to understand them. I was brought up in a hate pedo culture and never look deeper. Breeding more suffering does not much for everyone else. It's bad typicality to blindly curse them as the "devil" itself. Same with all abusers and killers
-------------------- "The boundaries of space and time are all in our minds. We all are one, everything is one."
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greenladel

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Darwin23
INFJ



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I can sympathize with NON-OFFENDING pedophiles, sure. That would suck. It is hated and if that's what gets you off, you didn't really choose that. Going back to my original question though, I suspect that the motivation is beyond a simple fetish (paraphilia?). In Surviving R. Kelly, his pattern of targeting younger girls is put in display. However, he also targets adults rather consistently. This is because his drive wasn't because of an attraction to young girls, it was based on a desire to control. Young girls were just the most impressionable, vulnerable and most likely to accept his abuse.
As for the argument that perhaps the age of consent is too high, I agree and disagree. Teens often do become sexually active well before the age of 18, but I think, again it goes back to that impressionable mind and vulnerability. That is why there is a lower age of consent in many places but it only applies if the other partner is also below a certain age. That, I totally agree with.
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Take a look at my journal
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Buster_Brown
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Quote:
As for the argument that perhaps the age of consent is too high, I agree and disagree. Teens often do become sexually active well before the age of 18, but I think, again it goes back to that impressionable mind and vulnerability. That is why there is a lower age of consent in many places but it only applies if the other partner is also below a certain age. That, I totally agree with.

"Do the crime, pay the fine" is, in many court cases reduced to a matter of money and pay-offs, which was apparently ineffectual in this case; Roman Polanski, director of The Ninth Gate starring Johnny Depp, settled a suit to the tune of 1/2 mil'
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