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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #26832470 - 07/19/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Keep me from spreading what?

:teareally:

Are you saying I'm infected?

:thatsracist:

See what I mean?

Keep pointing fingers and ignoring science.

Comply, comply, comply until a vaccine saves us all?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

TB kills millions.

Why were we not wearing mask all throughout this tuberculosis pandemic?

:mindblown:


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,562
Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26832570 - 07/19/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Those points address what you believe I implied, but not what I said.


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OfflinemndfreezeMDiscordReddit
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: feevers]
    #26832597 - 07/19/20 02:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

HamHead said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:
How long have you been a Qanon member?




I just found out, and know nothing about it.

Care to inform?

I'll google while I wait.




mndfreeze you just radicalized him





He already was and just didn't know it.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26832639 - 07/19/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Keep me from spreading what?

:teareally:

Are you saying I'm infected?

:thatsracist:

See what I mean?

Keep pointing fingers and ignoring science.

Comply, comply, comply until a vaccine saves us all?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

TB kills millions.

Why were we not wearing mask all throughout this tuberculosis pandemic?

:mindblown:


TB isnt endemic to the USA. If it were, I would wear a mask. I do wear a mask when in the presence of someone I know has TB. Again, you keep harping on the existence of other problems. The existence of problems other than covid doesnt mean that covid is not a problem. It just means that more than one problem exists. You totally bailed on the thread you made about pollution after I brought this up. Ignoring people who point out the fallacies in your reasoning and just going to another thread to commit them again is not a good look


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: morrowasted]
    #26832965 - 07/19/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Masks aren't meant to prevent you from catching anything, they are meant to keep you from spreading something.



Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Those points address what you believe I implied, but not what I said.




What were you implying?

You told me to wear a mask to prevent me from spreading something, which leads me to believe you are under assumptions that I am infected with something.

I'm confused, again.

And what was that about air pollution? It may have gotten lost but I'm still on my soapbox.

If you would be so kind as to provide a link, I may continue whatever conversation was being had.

I'm glad I live in a county where the sherriff isn't enforcing mask. I can go grocery shopping and not get yelled at


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,562
Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26833060 - 07/19/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
You told me to wear a mask to prevent me from spreading something



I did?


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #26833067 - 07/19/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

HamHead said:
You told me to wear a mask to prevent me from spreading something



I did?




That's what you were implying, no?


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26833137 - 07/19/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)



Andrew Kaufman.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,562
Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26833169 - 07/19/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

HamHead said:
You told me to wear a mask to prevent me from spreading something



I did?




That's what you were implying, no?



I brought it up because you were using the drywall picture to make a point about the masks not keeping people safe from the virus. It doesn't mean much when the reason masks are recommended are not to keep viruses out, but to keep them in. I never said nor implied you should wear one, but your reasons for not doing so are all over the place and in some cases counter to other points you make.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #26833363 - 07/19/20 10:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:prettyflyforawhiteguy:

All over the place.

Mask cause CO2 pooling, leading to changes in blood oxygen/CO2 levels.

Most mask aren't effective at preventing influenza like viruses from spreading, which are aerosols.

What else was there? These are my main points on mask. Were there any others I have made?

Pretty straight forward.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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Offlinekoods
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Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26833401 - 07/19/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Keep me from spreading what?

:teareally:

Are you saying I'm infected?

:thatsracist:

See what I mean?

Keep pointing fingers and ignoring science.

Comply, comply, comply until a vaccine saves us all?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

TB kills millions.

Why were we not wearing mask all throughout this tuberculosis pandemic?

:mindblown:




There’s a cure for TB
It is not terribly infectious.
It does not have the potential to infect a large portion of the population in a short period of time.

Any other stupid questions?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: koods] * 1
    #26833418 - 07/19/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

t 8 minutes, he speaks of CO2 pooling.

Right, so there's going to be a drop in blood oxygen levels, so what happens when there's not enough oxygen being breathed back in to replace it? Within a mask with CO2 pooling?





Do you even understand that only a fraction of the oxygen you inhale in each breath is absorbed by the body, and that only a fraction of the CO2 excreted is exhaled in a single breath. Your lungs pool CO2 constantly. The tiny volume of space in between the mask and your face is miniscule. Do you think youre exhaling anywhere near the full volume of the gases in your lungs when you breathe normally? Because if I try hard enough I can exhale quite a bit more air if I try hard enough. Why isn’t that pooled CO2 harming me?

Why are you determined to undermine the one practically effortless tool we have to slow the virus down with your constant bullshit pseudoscience. You’re fucking evil dude. People’s lives are at stake. Asshole.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Posts: 26,657
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: koods]
    #26833421 - 07/19/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It’s pure bs.  Are people seriously that scared of masks?  Like the way some are afraid of needles or something?

Masks will deprive your brain of oxygen - it’s a NWO illuminaughty conspiracy, they want you sheeple to be dumb and this is how they r doing it - wake up!!! :tweakin:

:rofl:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26833618 - 07/20/20 04:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So simple to resort to name calling. If you watch the video, the man says there will be CO2 pooling and that changing ones breathing patterns will help adapt better to breathing in a masks.

But keep calling names.

I can clearly see mods play favoritism here.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
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Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26837075 - 07/21/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

https://nypost.com/2020/07/21/ny-yanks-liquor-licenses-from-nyc-bars-over-social-distance-violations/

Awesomeness!!

Still having a hard. . . wait, what's this?



That can't be!?!


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (07/21/20 08:59 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26837304 - 07/21/20 11:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

1100 people died today. You promised me no spike in deaths. Something tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead] * 2
    #26837327 - 07/21/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
You better not look at this.

https://healthchoice.org/lessons-from-the-lockdown/




I did look at it, and here are my thoughts:

The first thing I did was scroll all the way to the bottom to look at the conclusion. The first thing I want to know is "what point are these guys trying to make?" The title Lessons from the Lockdown is vague, but it implies that there's something we should keep in mind for future health crises, and I want to know what these people think that something is. My findings? The main argument that this article is trying to make is, basically:

Death rates are going down in the U.S.
Many of these possible deaths were prevented without the aid of vaccines
Therefore, we should not mandate vaccines due to risks of side effects and should instead pursue other preventative measures

That is, essentially, their argument. I decided to dig a little deeper and look into HealthChoice, the organization responsible for this article. HealthChoice is, among other things, a staunchly anti-vaccine organization (of course, they don't say that outright because anti-vaxxers generally have a negative reputation in our society).

Take a gander at their "About Us" page.:

Quote:


It is our belief that [chronic health condition rates in the U.S.] will continue to increase if parents are not aware of the unhealthy choices in their lifestyle such as industrial processed foods, side effects of vaccine choices, and other environmental and lifestyle  factors.




They clearly have some sort of bone to pick with vaccines and, from what it sounds like on their "About Us" page, they didn't arrive at this position as a result of facts and evidence, but rather because it seems to be some sort of moral axiom for them that mandated health interventions are inherently evil. Scroll down a little bit on that page, and you'll see they hold nine different moral axioms which they "believe to be self evident". I actually agree with all 9 of them (though I don't know if I'd consider them "self evident" - they are derived from other, deeper moral principles), except for number 4:

Quote:


That the individual's right to choose or refuse medical interventions affecting them or their children must be defended




This is clearly an anti-vaccination position (among other things), and I don't think I agree with it. I think that we, as a society should enforce mandated medical interventions if failing to intervene poses a great risk to others.

Now, I'm not going to debate with anyone about whether or not COVID-19 actually poses a "great risk" to others. I'm not an epidemiologist, and I'm not going to pretend like I can properly interpret all the data surfacing on this pandemic. However, I think it's pretty clear that HealthChoice's moral axiom about defending an individual's right to choose or refuse medical interventions is playing a role in their argument where they conclude that we should not mandate vaccines when they become available. It seems like there is no data you could possibly present to their organization (even if the data suggested that failing to intervene would lead to the extinction of our species) that would convince them to mandate vaccines. After all, they believe it's "self evident" that individuals have a right to choose or refuse medical interventions. When they say it's "self evident", I take that to mean that absolutely nothing could convince them to change their minds about that position.

Talk about an echo chamber... HamHead, I think it's always wise to investigate the people who are writing the articles you read, and to investigate their motivations. In the case of HealthChoice, they very clearly have an anti-vaccination position, and it would be wise to consider that fact when reading the opinion pieces they publish. I'm not saying that everything they publish is bogus, or that they have ill intent. I'm sure they're well-meaning people, really. However, there's a saying that the road to hell was paved with good intentions, and I think that holds true here. Having good intentions doesn't always mean that what you are saying is true. Even though HealthChoice probably means well, you need to keep in mind that they definitely have an agenda when it comes to vaccines and that they are trying to push this agenda on their readers, even if that means unintentionally spreading false information that might harm their readers and others.

If you want to stay above echo chambers, the most important thing to do is to recognize that you're not above them, and that you never will be. You are just as likely to be swayed by the influences of echo chambers as anyone else is. You're only human. If you believe you are somehow too smart to be indoctrinated by an echo chamber, religious group, or think tank, then you have already made yourself vulnerable to the influence of radical ideas. Organizations like HealthChoice prey on people who think they are smarter than all the sheep (it's the same tactics that cults like the Church of Scientology use to indoctrinate people - people who join the Church of Scientology aren't dumb sheep, they're smart people who falsely believe that they're too smart to fall for indoctrination). Again, I don't think that the folks at HealthChoice have evil intent or anything, but I believe that they might be spreading false information under the pretext of "telling you the truth that mainstream media doesn't want you to know". Please, think about all of that and how it relates to your own situation before you start preaching to everyone about echo chambers.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Edited by Nonagon Infinity (07/21/20 11:48 PM)


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: koods]
    #26837544 - 07/22/20 05:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
1100 people died today. You promised me no spike in deaths. Something tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about




I'm sorry, I don't recall promising you shit.

EVER!!!

And I'll get to those vaccines. Because what I'm reading is, I shouldn't have a choice if I get vaccinated.

Which, IMO, is dangerous.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: HamHead]
    #26838667 - 07/22/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
And I'll get to those vaccines. Because what I'm reading is, I shouldn't have a choice if I get vaccinated.



That's interesting.

I think the argument that HealthChoice was making in their article that you shared relies heavily on the premise that I have an inalienable right to deny healthcare interventions. That seems plausible on the surface, at least in some cases - I can definitely see why people believe this. For example, I sometimes struggle with depression, but I don't think that means I should be forced to take psychiatric medication. I wonder if this principle would apply in all cases, though.

Hypothetical question: Let's pretend there was an extremely contagious, deadly disease that was rapidly spreading across earth through symptomatic responses to the disease (coughing, bodily fluids, use your imagination for that). Without intervention, the world's most renowned epidemiologists predicted that this disease would cause the extinction of our species by the end of the year. Suppose that pharmacists developed a drug that rapidly builds up immunity to the disease in users. The drug has been demonstrated to be effective in the majority of users - the side effects are inconclusive, but most users experience no side effects. Do you think it would be okay for a government to mandate the use of such a drug? The side effects may cause some negative reactions in some people, but the drug really works for most users and usage will probably mean delaying the extinction of our species until we come across the next threat.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Well, guess I'll sit on the sidelines [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26841205 - 07/23/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

https://f1000research.com/articles/9-285

Whoa boy.

"SARS-CoV-2 is the coronavirus agent of the COVID-19 pandemic causing high mortalities. In contrast, the widely spread human coronaviruses OC43, HKU1, 229E, and NL63 tend to cause only mild symptoms. The present study shows, by in silico analysis, that these common human viruses are expected to induce immune memory against SARS-CoV-2 by sharing protein fragments (antigen epitopes) for presentation to the immune system by MHC class I. A list of such epitopes is provided. The number of these epitopes and the prevalence of the common coronaviruses suggest that a large part of the world population has some degree of specific immunity against SARS-CoV-2 already, even without having been infected by that virus. For inducing protection, booster vaccinations enhancing existing immunity are less demanding than primary vaccinations against new antigens. Therefore, for the discussion on vaccination strategies against COVID-19, the available immune memory against related viruses should be part of the consideration."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475639/Catching-colds-protect-Covid-19-scientists-say.html

"Experts saw immune response to Covid-19 in 81% of patients who never had it.

They say 'similarity' to coronaviruses that cause common cold prepared body.

Four types of coronavirus known to cause the common cold and many get them.

A different type of immunity may protect people for even longer than antibodies.

Researchers at University Hospital Tübingen in Germany studied the blood of 365 people, 180 of whom had had Covid-19 and 185 who hadn't.

When the researchers exposed people's blood to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, people who had had the illness already produced the strongest immune response.

But surprisingly, there was also an immune reaction in 81 per cent of the people (150) who had never had Covid-19.

This, the scientists said, was because they had already been infected with one or more of the common cold coronaviruses known to infect humans - named OC43, 229E, NL63 and HKU1 - and their immune systems cross-reacted as a result.

Children may be better protected against coronavirus because they get so many colds, some scientists believe.

There are four coronaviruses known to cause coughs and colds, with adults averaging between two to four colds a year.

But children are believed to attract up to 12 colds a year, and scientists say this could provide youngsters with a  resistance to the virus that adults lack.

Professor Sir John Bell, a medicine professor at Oxford University, told the House of Lords Science and Technology Select Commitee: 'How you respond may be due to the state of your existing immunity coronaviruses generally.

'There is an interesting speculation at the moment, that many people in young or middle age groups may have T-cells that can already see coronaviruses.

'It may well be able to provide some protection against this pathogen when it arrives.'

Professor Adrian Hayday added: 'All adults past a certain age - 30 to 35 - eventually have no thymus so their T-cells work by looking at whether they have seen something before, whereas children are very good at seeing things that are unknown.

'The issue may be that children are able to see this as something fresh.'

Coronaviruses are thought to cause up to 30 per cent of all colds but it is not known specifically how many are caused by the betacoronavirus types, which also cause severe chest infections in the oldest and youngest patients."

RA RA RHE, KICK EM IN THE KNEEZZZ!!


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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