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Martinsapin
no-mad



Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 310
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative.
#26775032 - 06/22/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey growers.
Would the INKBIRD PIB 16 would work instead of building my own PID and relay. It seems to good to be true... like plug and play
-------------------- looking for a sclerotia producer print
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
#26775272 - 06/22/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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That unit is a PID controller that's why its $100
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26775464 - 06/22/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is what you want. Check out my 55 gallon drum build for other things needed. If you are going to use the INKBIRD PIB 16 which is only 15 amps and 120 volts there is no need of even using a PID it will basically run 100% all the time anyway...
https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-Thermocouple/dp/B01489AQAW/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=inkbird+pjb16&qid=1592881927&s=industrial&sr=1-11
Do it right and run a 220/240 volt line and a 5500-watt element from brew hardware.
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/22/20 09:40 PM)
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Bsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26775588 - 06/22/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where goes that K-probe? Into the drum where steam and substrate is? Or into the water with heating element?
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
#26775618 - 06/22/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You want the K probe at the top of the drum as far away from the element as possible. That way all of the bags are heated before the K probe ever measures the temperature.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26775630 - 06/22/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26775650 - 06/22/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I also use this on my PC...
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/pcomp4.htm
and have a PID control my presto PC...


The way I have it set up I have run my pc for over 4 hours and it barely uses any water. In 4 hours it might use 1/4 inch of water. But I doubt that much.
I no longer have to worry about watching my PC. I set the timer and forget about it. When I do agar I let it cook for 45 minutes and when it cools down to 140F it sounds an alarm to let me know the agar is ready to pour. The way I have it set up is hardly any work. But that's the way I like it. I'll let everyone else bust there ass to get the job done.
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/23/20 12:26 AM)
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Bsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26775801 - 06/23/20 02:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time + let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
#26775870 - 06/23/20 04:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have given up on using a PID.. don't need one. I have one but I don't think I will even install it on my next iteration.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
#26776272 - 06/23/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bsdgaou said: I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26776301 - 06/23/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:
Bsdgaou said: I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.
yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26776312 - 06/23/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The way you are trying to figure things out is impossible. When the PID turns on it does not turn on at full power it will turn on at a percentage of power that the PID has set to keep it at the temp you have set the PID for. If you want to know how much it costs you to run you will need to hook up a resettable KWH meter on your power line like I did. Then it is easy to figure out how much it costs you to run the steamer.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
#26776338 - 06/23/20 09:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
seagu said:
Quote:
SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:
Bsdgaou said: I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.
yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.
You have to understand that once the steamer gets to temp the PID will run the element at 5 to 10% to keep it at that temp there is a huge saving involved when using a PID. I used to run a 1650 watt element and the 1650 cost twice as much to run as my 5500-watt element does now. And the 1650 would take 6 hours to get to temp the 5500 only takes 45 mins so there is a big-time saving also.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26777084 - 06/23/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:
seagu said:
Quote:
SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:
Bsdgaou said: I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.
yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.
You have to understand that once the steamer gets to temp the PID will run the element at 5 to 10% to keep it at that temp there is a huge saving involved when using a PID. I used to run a 1650 watt element and the 1650 cost twice as much to run as my 5500-watt element does now. And the 1650 would take 6 hours to get to temp the 5500 only takes 45 mins so there is a big-time saving also.
right.. but for people on a budget trying to figure out what they must have immediately to get things up and running and making money now or more money later after they upgrade after they already started making money.. Just trying to point out the option that a PID isn't mandatory to get the ball rolling for those on a shoestring budget, since a lot of us are broke as a joke.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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Martinsapin
no-mad



Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 310
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26777087 - 06/23/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah Shroomsis I read your original thread, lot of matters for my brain which is not totally english wired.
The thing is, for now Im not able to use 240V.
Also, why would not I need a Pid/controller with 1650watts, wont the temperature rise too high?
I really apreciate your help
-------------------- looking for a sclerotia producer print
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Martinsapin
no-mad



Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 310
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
#26777188 - 06/23/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also Im talking about the PIB 16 S.
-------------------- looking for a sclerotia producer print
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
#26777533 - 06/23/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Martinsapin said: Yeah Shroomsis I read your original thread, lot of matters for my brain which is not totally english wired.
The thing is, for now Im not able to use 240V.
Also, why would not I need a Pid/controller with 1650watts, wont the temperature rise too high?
I really apreciate your help
Water is pretty cool. It won't rise above it's boiling point temperature unless it is super heated or put under pressure. So it will max temp at roughly 212F or whatever the boiling point temperature is for your sea level altitude. So the water will just boil away and steam and that's it. It keeps the heating element temperature in check since it is surrounding it. And with my current setup I only steam off 1 inch roughly of water for a full run. So depending on your sea level and the temp your water boils where you are.. you may run your steamer at 212F or another person would run it at 208F. and that's the hottest it will go. So just an option to get you up and running before you get the PID hooked up....
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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Martinsapin
no-mad



Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 310
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
#26777552 - 06/23/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks seagu
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 10 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
#26777718 - 06/23/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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NP. It's easy to get caught up into wanting all the bells and whistles to make your life easier while trying to juggle getting what you need vs getting what you want. Like a water line with float valve. If your false bottom is high enough so you can put enough water in for your setup to only steam off enough to keep the water level covering your element for the time you need to run it.. you are good. Now to be fair.. I run an opaque barrel so I can see the water level always. I think most people are not using opaque see through barrels and wouldn't be able to monitor water levels unless they installed a sight glass.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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Bsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26778060 - 06/23/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:
Bsdgaou said: I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds. So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run. 9 h * 4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element. So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.
Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?
Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.
How much you're paying for kWh? Here's 13 cents.
Also, how can PID run the heater only on 10%? As I understand, it just run it on or off, so whole 5500 W or 0 W.
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