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OfflineFallenShroom
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Registered: 05/01/03
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WBS Flour instead of BRF
    #2677533 - 05/14/04 11:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Lots of people have trouble finding BRF flour so here is what works very well and in my opinion better then BRF. Take WBS "wild bird Food" place in blender and make a flour out of it make just like regular pf tek. Here are the results 11 days old 1 pint jar.



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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2677569 - 05/14/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

You said bood food


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2677582 - 05/14/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That jar is a pint and only 11 days old?

From multispore?
Or karo/honey?


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: doc34]
    #2677601 - 05/14/04 11:19 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

This was a karo inoc so you can add a few days to that time for germination. The mycelium really rips through this and if little chunks are left in your wbs flour it is fine. Also i did not use my pc for this experiment just used a steamer. so no pc needed.


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Invisiblehoushroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2677668 - 05/14/04 11:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

that looks like some nice rhizomorphic growth...be sure to share pics of the fruits of that culture!


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2677821 - 05/14/04 12:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yeah keep us posted!


:cool: :thumbup:


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2678500 - 05/14/04 02:39 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I sure will as this seems very easy


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OfflineTripleB
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2678818 - 05/14/04 03:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

BLENDING WILD BIRD SEED NOW?? who would have thought, wouldnt that work better ANYWAYS??? wouldnt mycelium colonize that WAY faster than FULL GRAINS?.. that could be used in teks if so...


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: TripleB]
    #2679251 - 05/14/04 05:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Not sure if its never been done before no tek needed cause all your doing is replacing brf for wbsf in the pf tek :smile:


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OfflineTripleB
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2680518 - 05/14/04 11:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yes but i have question.. if its just like pf tek, then u put vermiculite in it then? ... and it NOT then can we get the water measurements please? im doing yur tek as i type lol


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Offlineiluan
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: TripleB]
    #2680545 - 05/14/04 11:18 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Just follow tek except replace brf with the wbsf, i am pretty sure that is what he means. GL.


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Remember..if the women don't find ya handsome,they should atleast find ya handy!


I do what i can with what i don't have!


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OfflineTripleB
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2680659 - 05/14/04 11:47 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i love the red/green show iluan :wink: yes there are some UPNORTH people on this forum heh...


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: TripleB]
    #2681666 - 05/15/04 09:09 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yes use verm in it eveything is the same except the use of wbsf


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2683966 - 05/15/04 08:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

thats a damn good idea.

im begining my latest grow with wbs now... good deal.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlinet3knology
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Todcasil]
    #2684101 - 05/15/04 09:32 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, good thinkin fallen.

Keep us posted man.


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"If our Gods and our hopes are nothing but scientific phenomena, then let us admit it must be said that our love is scientific as well." - Mathias Villiers de l'Isle-Adam


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Todcasil]
    #2685941 - 05/16/04 09:29 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Todcasil said:
thats a damn good idea.

im begining my latest grow with wbs now... good deal.




Let us know how it goes :smile:


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686242 - 05/16/04 11:52 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Will this stuff work?  Found it at Wal-Mart for $3 for a 10lb bag. :smile:  I don't see any addatives or anything listed on the bag.








And the final product


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2686296 - 05/16/04 12:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That looks like some good stuff. The stuff in the experiment was from walmart brand Penningtons wild bood food and has bird-kote coating" vitamins and stuff" penningtons is my favorite wbs. That looks like a nice flour you made. Why dont you write up a pictorial tek as you go along for this project ?


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Edited by FallenShroom (05/16/04 12:18 PM)


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686315 - 05/16/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FallenShroom said:
That looks like some good stuff. The stuff in the experiment was from walmart brand Penningtons wild bood food and has bird-kote coating" vitamins and stuff" penningtons is my favorite wbs. That looks like a nice four you made. Why dont you write up a pictorial tek as you go along for this project ?



I was looking for thet Pennington stuff but they didn't have it at my walmart.  You can gaurentee many more pics form me since I just recently got a digi cam and like to whore up the pics. :smile:
I won't be using this stuff quite yet unless I go buy some more jars since all 12 of my jars are currently incubating with some verm/brf.  If any of those jars fuck up or when they are done I will use this next.  I almost bought 12 more jars today but figured I don't want too many jars going at once or I would have to build a HUGE terrarium.


Edited by Dr. Greenthumb (05/16/04 12:13 PM)


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686334 - 05/16/04 12:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Here is that jar today day 13 very strong rhizomorphic growth looks like it is starting to get knots inside the jar will birth maybe tomorrow just not set up for cakes. :smile:



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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2686347 - 05/16/04 12:17 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Dr. Greenthumb great pics bt the way they look good.


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OfflineJiggly
still learnin'
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2686352 - 05/16/04 12:17 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

in the pic of bird seed there is 15% fiber, why would someone want alot of fiber in bird seed, they would shit ALL over the yard


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686361 - 05/16/04 12:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

:thanx:


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Jiggly]
    #2686366 - 05/16/04 12:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jiggly said:
in the pic of bird seed there is 15% fiber, why would someone want alot of fiber in bird seed, they would shit ALL over the yard



Probably cleans their system out good. :laugh:


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OfflineJiggly
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2686387 - 05/16/04 12:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yea, but in your yard? lol


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OfflineTreePhiend
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686442 - 05/16/04 12:39 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Wow 11 days is awsome! Do you think its so fast because it isn't quite as powdery as BRF so the myc can sourround the particles of WBS and move on faster? If so, someone should try diffrent levels of chunkyness and see how that works!


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: TreePhiend]
    #2686524 - 05/16/04 01:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Becarefull with differnt levels of chunks if you are not using pc. Remember that jar at day 11 recieved a karo inject for that 1pint jar so in reality that would be day 14 for germination.


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2686535 - 05/16/04 01:03 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I got a PC so I could experiment a little later on down the line.


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OfflineJiggly
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2686542 - 05/16/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I hate to show how much of a noob i really am, but whats pc (pressure cooker????), and whats karo


Edited by Jiggly (05/16/04 01:08 PM)


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Jiggly]
    #2686549 - 05/16/04 01:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Jiggly]
    #2686551 - 05/16/04 01:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

pc= pressure cooker
Karo = liquid mycelium ie look up karo tek

And everyone starts off as a newb :smile: nothing wrong with that


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2687485 - 05/16/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Well I got bored and went out and bought a dozen more jars. :blush:
I will cook them up right now and innoc tomorrow and see how they compare to the ones I did today in brf.  Check this thread for updates.


Edited by Dr. Greenthumb (05/16/04 04:07 PM)


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2687520 - 05/16/04 04:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Very nice just remember when add the wbsf that it is not as fine powder as brf so adjust accordingly cause the masses are differnt. And take some pics and quantity of wbsf used mark each jar :smile: lol dont you love how it turned over into your project  :laugh: Im a lazy bastard eww maybe start a grow log with it side by side brf ones hmmm..


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Edited by FallenShroom (05/16/04 04:17 PM)


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2687629 - 05/16/04 04:43 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Well I better tell you I'm a n00b to this and this is my first real grow and I don't know if it is a good idea to experiment yet but I really don't have too much to lose. Pics commin up in a few...


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2687668 - 05/16/04 04:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't adjust any measurements from the original PF Tek.  Filled 6 jars with 3 cups verm, 1 1/2 cups wbs


Then added 1 1/2 cups water


Here are the filled jars


Filled to the bottom of the threads


Heres thow much substrate I had left


All stuffed into my little PC :blush:


I don't know if I should have crammed them in there like that but oh well, too late now.  I will let them cook for 90 mins.  On the first jar sI bought I got the taller, narrower ones and I could only fit 4 at a time.  The ones I bought now are the wider ones but shorter so I could only fit 3 on the bottom but I had barely enough room to stack them so we'll see how that goes.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2687779 - 05/16/04 05:11 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Looking good Dr. Greenthumb never to early to start to experiment thats the whole learning process :smile:


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OfflineTreePhiend
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2688082 - 05/16/04 06:24 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I know he used karo, but I still think that is hella fast! Awsome! I can't wait for the results on this experiment! Exciting!


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2688117 - 05/16/04 06:32 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Fuck. My PC ran out of water about 75 mins in so I had to stop. Think it will still be ok? It's only a 10 psi.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2688137 - 05/16/04 06:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think it should be depends on how much whole grains were left in the blendind process. you sure that it was 75 minutes in what did you smell the pot burning ?


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2688174 - 05/16/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FallenShroom said:
I think it should be depends on how much whole grains were left in the blendind process. you sure that it was 75 minutes in what did you smell the pot burning ?



It was basically all powder. I don't think there was a single grain in there. I stopped hearing the rattle of the weight so I figured the water was empty. There was only 15 mins left on the timer I set so it was in there for 75 mmins after it started to rattle. I noticed a faint smell but I caught it right away.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2688228 - 05/16/04 06:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

you should be cool then like i said oringinal experiment i did not use my pc. Just steamed them :smile:


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2688276 - 05/16/04 07:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


Close up of the jar. Looks like maybe some of that white millet stuff was left but nothing major.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2688630 - 05/16/04 08:30 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

one last question, though it may seem silly, befor i begin my jars.

should i grind up the wbs wet or dry?
sounds silly but i just cant decide which would be better.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Todcasil]
    #2688852 - 05/16/04 09:12 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Todcasil said:
one last question, though it may seem silly, befor i begin my jars.

should i grind up the wbs wet or dry?
sounds silly but i just cant decide which would be better.



dry.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Dr. Greenthumb]
    #2688904 - 05/16/04 09:20 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:
I've Had great results with rye grass seed flower.
:goodluck:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Offlinemycoguy
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2689194 - 05/16/04 10:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

again... you have done nothing to kill the endospores. Not even PCing will kill the endospores.


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: mycoguy]
    #2689231 - 05/16/04 10:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mycoguy said:
again... you have done nothing to kill the endospores.  Not even PCing will kill the endospores.



And that means?
He got it to work with only boiling it. :shrug:
Dosen't really matter to me.  I got some regular cakes going too so if these don't work oh well.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: mycoguy]
    #2689267 - 05/16/04 10:39 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mycoguy said:
again... you have done nothing to kill the endospores.  Not even PCing will kill the endospores.




Again....  Are you refering to bacillus and clostridium they are endospores, wich reside in just about everything including yup you got it brf :smile: Them buggers are every where


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2689955 - 05/17/04 02:00 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

FallenShrooms, good going on the experiment.

I gave this a bash a while back and my view is that ground up millet would be better if it were hulled.
The hulls add worthless matter (non-food) to the substrate (cakes) -- as seen when one compares BRF to ground up whole millet seed.



Whole grain millet flour. I also noted btw, when I weighed whole grain millet flour in a compare to BRF, the BRF has more weight to the volume.



I also found they took longer to colonise than BRF cakes, as the hull matter didn't "bridge" the mycelium swiftly across the substrate, since it's a "non-food". Good to see though, that you're getting faster action your way.

Strain Golden Teacher, spores injected.



I chose to case six of them, incubate and patch.









I found however that the lack of food saw to small fruits.



If I were to do it again, I would use hulled millet ground up as "flour".

For what it's worth, my observations on exhausted whole grain millet casings is that the hulls are still evident. The mycelium doesn't "consume" them as they have little, if any, food value.



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Convert Metric and Imperial.


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Starter]
    #2690569 - 05/17/04 09:25 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Hey Starter, thanks for sharing your results and nice pinset on that casing. Ive seen so far very fast colonization mycelium just ripped through this with the wbsf may be due to alot of factors it is just about all food. I will see how it fruits in time coming, i feel this is a great alterative to brf as seems some people have hard time finding it.


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InvisibleStarter
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2690789 - 05/17/04 10:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

>>>Ive seen so far very fast colonization mycelium just ripped through this with the wbsf may be due to alot of factors it is just about all food.

I started them with spores, a liquid inoculant (as you used) would have been faster.

What I did notice is zones in the cakes struggling to colonise, like there wasn't much food to be had i.e. more hulls than internal kernal particles. The desired item, the internal material of millet, is high in protein and more importantly carbs, they stick with ease to the moist vermiculite making it easy for mycelium to bridge/reach through the substrate.

I know Hanky has experimented with hulled millet flour and mixes of it too to BRF in cake experiments, he's had sterling results. 

>>>I will see how it fruits in time coming, i feel this is a great alterative to brf as seems some people have hard time finding it.

Very true.

In addition, I've found (as have local people) that millet mushrooms are more potent than BRF (just mine and their take on it). It certainly wouldn't harm folks to give millet a go to their PF cakes. 

Happy to see you're running such experiments. :smile:


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Offlinemycoguy
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2691772 - 05/17/04 02:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

looks like we were both thinking about this around the same time.

WBS flour instead of BRF?


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OfflineFallenShroom
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Registered: 05/01/03
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: mycoguy]
    #2692034 - 05/17/04 03:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Is that why you popped in and said what about endospores :smile: that i read from your post someone mentioned to me. Lol it was just about the same time i see your post was on the 4th my project started on the 3 thats cool lol


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OfflineFungi_x
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2692079 - 05/17/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineFallenShroom
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Fungi_x]
    #2692173 - 05/17/04 04:17 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Fine it's yours who cares lol on with the experiments :smile: Everyone else can say it's theres also im sure there probably someone before you also . Im not here to get fame just to help the comunity


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: Fungi_x]
    #2702277 - 05/19/04 04:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I'd say BRF substitutes in PF cakes date back yonder '92 in their R&D by PF himself. After all, PF probably kicked off with ground up rye (since that's a grain that dates back in use to those 1976 Oss, OT & O.N. Oeric fellahs). From there, he probably tried ground millet, to ground whole grain brown rice...and felt that was the best, since it's readily available a.k.a BRF. Basically, anything cubensis can grow on, and will stick evenly, as a mix, to the vermiculite of the cake, will grow myc to full cake colonisation. Even the inert vermiculite is open to substitution for other inert media, like glass fiber.


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OfflineDr. Greenthumb
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Re: WBS Flour instead of BRF [Re: FallenShroom]
    #2705226 - 05/20/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE:

Checked my jars today. All the BRF jars I did all have about quarter size growth in them (5 dyas after innoculation) and the WBSF jars I did one day later are just srtrating to grow. Two of them have a couple pea sized areas. I will keep you updated...


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