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OfflineMartinsapin
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55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative.
    #26775032 - 06/22/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey growers.

Would the INKBIRD PIB 16 would work instead of building my own PID and relay. It seems to good to be true... like plug and play


--------------------
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26775272 - 06/22/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That unit is a PID controller that's why its $100


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26775464 - 06/22/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This is what you want. Check out my 55 gallon drum build for other things needed. If you are going to use the INKBIRD PIB 16 which is only 15 amps and 120 volts there is no need of even using a PID it will basically run 100% all the time anyway...

https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-Thermocouple/dp/B01489AQAW/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=inkbird+pjb16&qid=1592881927&s=industrial&sr=1-11

Do it right and run a 220/240 volt line and a 5500-watt element from brew hardware.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/22/20 09:40 PM)


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InvisibleBsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26775588 - 06/22/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Where goes that K-probe? Into the drum where steam and substrate is? Or into the water with heating element?


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26775618 - 06/22/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You want the K probe at the top of the drum as far away from the element as possible. That way all of the bags are heated before the K probe ever measures the temperature.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26775630 - 06/22/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26775650 - 06/22/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I also use this on my PC...

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/pcomp4.htm

and have a PID control my presto PC...





The way I have it set up I have run my pc for over 4 hours and it barely uses any water. In 4 hours it might use 1/4 inch of water. But I doubt that much.

I no longer have to worry about watching my PC. I set the timer and forget about it. When I do agar I let it cook for 45 minutes and when it cools down to 140F it sounds an alarm to let me know the agar is ready to pour. The way I have it set up is hardly any work. But that's the way I like it. I'll let everyone else bust there ass to get the job done.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/23/20 12:26 AM)


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InvisibleBsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26775801 - 06/23/20 02:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time + let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26775870 - 06/23/20 04:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have given up on using a PID.. don't need one. I have one but I don't think I will even install it on my next iteration.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26776272 - 06/23/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time  let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?




Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26776301 - 06/23/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time  let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?




Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.





yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. :shrug: other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26776312 - 06/23/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The way you are trying to figure things out is impossible. When the PID turns on it does not turn on at full power it will turn on at a percentage of power that the PID has set to keep it at the temp you have set the PID for. If you want to know how much it costs you to run you will need to hook up a resettable KWH meter on your power line like I did. Then it is easy to figure out how much it costs you to run the steamer.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26776338 - 06/23/20 09:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time  let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?




Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.





yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. :shrug: other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.




You have to understand that once the steamer gets to temp the PID will run the element at 5 to 10% to keep it at that temp there is a huge saving involved when using a PID. I used to run a 1650 watt element and the 1650 cost twice as much to run as my 5500-watt element does now. And the 1650 would take 6 hours to get to temp the 5500 only takes 45 mins so there is a big-time saving also.


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26777084 - 06/23/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time  let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?




Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.





yea saving money on the runs might be the only reason I would use a PID actually now that you mention the savings part.. :shrug: other than trying to save money so it isn't on all the time there isn't a need for a PID.




You have to understand that once the steamer gets to temp the PID will run the element at 5 to 10% to keep it at that temp there is a huge saving involved when using a PID. I used to run a 1650 watt element and the 1650 cost twice as much to run as my 5500-watt element does now. And the 1650 would take 6 hours to get to temp the 5500 only takes 45 mins so there is a big-time saving also.





right.. but for people on a budget trying to figure out what they must have immediately to get things up and running and making money now or more money later after they upgrade after they already started making money.. Just trying to point out the option that a PID isn't mandatory to get the ball rolling for those on a shoestring budget, since a lot of us are broke as a joke. :lmafo:


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26777087 - 06/23/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah Shroomsis I read your original thread, lot of matters for my brain which is not totally english wired.

The thing is, for now Im not able to use 240V.

Also, why would not I need a Pid/controller with 1650watts, wont the temperature rise too high?

I really apreciate your help:thumbup:


--------------------
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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26777188 - 06/23/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Also Im talking about the PIB 16 S.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26777533 - 06/23/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Yeah Shroomsis I read your original thread, lot of matters for my brain which is not totally english wired.

The thing is, for now Im not able to use 240V.

Also, why would not I need a Pid/controller with 1650watts, wont the temperature rise too high?

I really apreciate your help:thumbup:





Water is pretty cool. It won't rise above it's boiling point temperature unless it is super heated or put under pressure. So it will max temp at roughly 212F or whatever the boiling point temperature is for your sea level altitude. So the water will just boil away and steam and that's it. It keeps the heating element temperature in check since it is surrounding it. And with my current setup I only steam off 1 inch roughly of water for a full run. So depending on your sea level and the temp your water boils where you are.. you may run your steamer at 212F or another person would run it at 208F. and that's the hottest it will go. So just an option to get you up and running before you get the PID hooked up....


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26777552 - 06/23/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks seagu


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26777718 - 06/23/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

NP. It's easy to get caught up into wanting all the bells and whistles to make your life easier while trying to juggle getting what you need vs getting what you want. Like a water line with float valve. If your false bottom is high enough so you can put enough water in for your setup to only steam off enough to keep the water level covering your element for the time you need to run it.. you are good. Now to be fair.. I run an opaque barrel so I can see the water level always. I think most people are not using opaque see through barrels and wouldn't be able to monitor water levels unless they installed a sight glass.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26778060 - 06/23/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I still didn't decide which heating element should I buy. I can choose from 3500, 4500 and 5500 W. I want as low electricy bill as I can. I've read somewhere that bigger element (4500 W) heats faster and turn on for 5 seconds every 20 seconds.
So 15 seconds per minute, 900 s per hour (15 min per hour). 20 hours * 15 min = 5 hours total time  let's say 4 hours heating time = 9 hours per run.
9 h *  4500 W / 1000 = 40 kWh ... Which is little more than 5 € per run with 4500 W heating element.
So if you want 60 bags per week, that's 40 € electricy bill for only sterilising substrate. A lot if you ask me.

Anyone can share his "on/off" time with heating element so we can compare time and other stuff?




Your math is all fucked up. I run a 5500 watt element I do 20 bags right now. it costs me $1.80 to run for 12 hours that is less than .1 a bag to run. If I double the bags it would cost me half that. I have a KWM on my system so I know how much it costs me to run each time. If you look at the top pic the thing without a cover is a KWH meter. I have not looked at your math to see what you are doing but I can tell you for sure it is wrong. I do my bags right now for less than 10 cents a bag and that is because I do so few of bags very time I double the bags it costs me half as much per bag. I am going to help my nephew put electrical in his trailer right now or I would look at what you got going on. All I can tell you for sure is your math is wrong I don't know why but your math is wrong. The cheapest way you are going to do bags is with a high element and a PID. Depending on what time I get home tonight I will look this over and try to help out. The higher element you buy the cheaper your bill will be I would go for the 5500 watt element if you have a 220/240 line to hook it up to.




How much you're paying for kWh? Here's 13 cents.

Also, how can PID run the heater only on 10%? As I understand, it just run it on or off, so whole 5500 W or 0 W.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26778225 - 06/24/20 12:44 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I pay 0.08 cents 13 cents is expensive. No, a PID does not either run on or off. If you watch this video it shows the PID telling you how much power it is giving your element at about 9:30 and he tells you it will go down into the teens. So 100 would be 100 percent and say 15 would be 15 percent...



The PID tries to give your element just enough power to keep the water at the temperature you set. So once it reaches the temperature the PID only has to give it a little power every now and then to keep it at that temperature. A PID is much different than a temperature controller which is either on or off.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (06/24/20 12:53 AM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26778248 - 06/24/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If you want to know more watch his other videos he explains it more.


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Offlinebogdancev
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26778318 - 06/24/20 02:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It uses "time proportioning control", a slow version of Pulse Width Modulation (PWM). You have a time window, lets say it is 1min. Then to work 10%, you switch heat element for 6s in total during that minute.

If you are technically inclined please see this link. It completely explains slow PWM for controlling relays.

The full technical tutorial on PWM with implementation is here.


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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: bogdancev]
    #26778488 - 06/24/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So basically I plug my 1500w element and monitor when I reach 200f and then let it go for 16hours. And make sure I dont lack water.

I know Shroomsis youre a big advocate of PIDs and will install one eventually.

For now Im on a temporary locatikn.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26778567 - 06/24/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yea. The thing I discovered about how much water is steamed off is if I used a grill grate for the false bottom more water is steamed off. But if I use a solid false bottom with roughly only 1/2" from the barrel wall around the edge a lot less water will steam off. And I stack the bags on top of each other and not like a brick wall so that there is room for the steam to go around all the bags and get up to the top of the steamer and not create a pressurized bottom section. Under my false bottom is also 2 bricks that for the most part completely fill 3.5 inches deep square where the corners of the square are basically touching the sides. So it displaces a lot of water right below the false bottom. Hardly any water steams off this way. Not sure how much the water displacement adds or takes away from how much water is steamed off. I haven't tried it without it yet. I kinda like not having to reach so far down into the barrel. But yea putting a PID on it will save you some money in the long run though. And you will either want a drain or wet shop vacuum or some way to get the water out each time.


--------------------
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OfflineMartinsapin
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26778908 - 06/24/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26779020 - 06/24/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.




it can. Though make sure the heat and the rubber coating meshes well. I am currently using 10/2 wire usually used to run electricity in homes. Plugged into a 12gauge extension chord. So I am not sure if the rubber being so close to that high of heat for that long would melt or what. It being soft rubber and all. But 12 guage is usable for wiring 20 amp breaker applications. but I am not an electrician so... its all at your own risk. I officially know nothing.

yea and those grill grates rust... grrr.
Stainless Steel 55 gallon barrel lids that are cut and filed to size works well.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26779109 - 06/24/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah get it. My idea is not to wire the heater on the extension cord but to have the heater wired own its own cord that I would plug in the extension.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26779190 - 06/24/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That is how I have it right now until I rewire it soon. And it works on a 15Amp GCFI outlet.. make sure you run it on GCFI and have it grounded because of the water. And make sure you are not over heating your wires. if you didn't know.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26779307 - 06/24/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Martinsapin said:
So basically I plug my 1500w element and monitor when I reach 200f and then let it go for 16hours. And make sure I dont lack water.

I know Shroomsis youre a big advocate of PIDs and will install one eventually.

For now Im on a temporary locatikn.




What I would do is make you you put the same amount of water in the drum and watch how long it takes to get to 200F How ever long it takes add 12 hours to the time. Mine took 6 hours to get to temp so I ran for 18 hours.

As I stated before I am only an advocate for a PID if you are running a high wattage element. Running a 1500 wat element there is really no need for a PID. If you want you can use a PID but it will act like a heat controller basically on or off and will not save that much on electricity.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26779340 - 06/24/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.




It depends. If you look at my set up I have a Locking Extension Cord for my drum and a 12 gauge dryer cord for my PC. You have to make sure you get the right gauge cord to handle the amps or you will have a fire. Remember it has to be able to handle the amps for the specific length the cord is.

I use this as a false bottom it is expensive but awesome...

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Round-Outdoor-Campfire-Cooking/dp/B01HB8VP2K/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=22+inch+round+fire+grate&qid=1593024034&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-3


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26779343 - 06/24/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Please be careful guys I am really worried about you all having a fire if you do not make sure your wiring can handle the amps. I would suggest going one gauge lower on your wiring than you think you need. Doing this will also save you money on electricity because the electricity will flow easier.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26779399 - 06/24/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.




It depends. If you look at my set up I have a Locking Extension Cord for my drum and a 12 gauge dryer cord for my PC. You have to make sure you get the right gauge cord to handle the amps or you will have a fire. Remember it has to be able to handle the amps for the specific length the cord is.

I use this as a false bottom it is expensive but awesome...

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Round-Outdoor-Campfire-Cooking/dp/B01HB8VP2K/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=22+inch+round+fire+grate&qid=1593024034&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-3




well I do have to admit I have tried it on 14 and or 16 wire once or twice in a pinch with no issues over the years. I could feel a slight warmth but that was it. Though I recommend not to do that.  Now my 12 gauge only gets warm where it is sitting right up near the steamer putting off all that heat so I can keep the connection out of the rain. And so is everything else right there warm. But if I don't have it near there it doesn't get warm.

Oh that looks like a nice false bottom. Though that will steam off more water than Those 2 bricks have 2 others below it on end lengthwise with the element going inbetween.

and as for wire sizes I was mentioning https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Electrical_Outlet_Wire_Size.php#:~:text=For%20a%2015%2DAmp%20circuit,copper%2Dclad%20aluminum%20wire).


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26779457 - 06/24/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, thanks a bunch fellows. Ill get my barrel pretty soon and then start thw building part.

Dont worry I wont burn/destroy my body nor house .

Ill let you know further down the road how it goes.

:laugh:


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Martinsapin]
    #26779504 - 06/24/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

To figure out your amps you use watts/volts. So if you have a 1500 watt element and have 120 volts 1500/120 = 12.5 amps or if you have 110 volts 1500/110 = 13.63 either way it is well below 15 amps.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26791325 - 06/29/20 03:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Can you tell us which PID do you use @SHROOMSISAY01?


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26791675 - 06/29/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I use the MYPIN TA4 PID. It was cheaper than the inkbird when I bought mine. They all work basically the same so get the cheapest one you can find.

Watch some of this guys videos he is awesome he explains everything very well...





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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26793431 - 06/29/20 10:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you. I wonder why is PID from bubba 550 USD then?


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26793507 - 06/29/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Here is the same PID Bubba's barrels is using for $16.50 - $36.00 ...

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48mm-48mm-1alarm-microcomputer-temperature-controller_62280972670.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.17e797479T6Aua

You should be able to build one for under $100 easily. Bubba's barrels must deal with a lot of suckers or people that just don't know any better.

I have been using a mypin pid for 3 years 1 or twice a week with no problems.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26793549 - 06/30/20 12:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is good for 4500 or 5500 W heating element? Inkbird ITC-106VH PID.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26794071 - 06/30/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26802262 - 07/03/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.




It depends. If you look at my set up I have a Locking Extension Cord for my drum and a 12 gauge dryer cord for my PC. You have to make sure you get the right gauge cord to handle the amps or you will have a fire. Remember it has to be able to handle the amps for the specific length the cord is.

I use this as a false bottom it is expensive but awesome...

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Round-Outdoor-Campfire-Cooking/dp/B01HB8VP2K/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=22+inch+round+fire+grate&qid=1593024034&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-3




well I do have to admit I have tried it on 14 and or 16 wire once or twice in a pinch with no issues over the years. I could feel a slight warmth but that was it. Though I recommend not to do that.  Now my 12 gauge only gets warm where it is sitting right up near the steamer putting off all that heat so I can keep the connection out of the rain. And so is everything else right there warm. But if I don't have it near there it doesn't get warm.

Oh that looks like a nice false bottom. Though that will steam off more water than Those 2 bricks have 2 others below it on end lengthwise with the element going inbetween.

and as for wire sizes I was mentioning https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Electrical_Outlet_Wire_Size.php#:~:text=For%20a%2015%2DAmp%20circuit,copper%2Dclad%20aluminum%20wire).




I must say I don't understand the thinking behind the false bottom. With a solid false bottom, you are just forcing the steam up the sides and making it take longer to heat up the center bags. You are just heating up the solid false bottom instead of the bags. The more steam you get into the drum the faster the bags will heat up. So it takes less time to do the same process.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26802837 - 07/04/20 05:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

Martinsapin said:
Would it work to plug the heater element on a 12gauge extension cord?

I keep note of the solid false bottom instead of the grill.




It depends. If you look at my set up I have a Locking Extension Cord for my drum and a 12 gauge dryer cord for my PC. You have to make sure you get the right gauge cord to handle the amps or you will have a fire. Remember it has to be able to handle the amps for the specific length the cord is.

I use this as a false bottom it is expensive but awesome...

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Round-Outdoor-Campfire-Cooking/dp/B01HB8VP2K/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=22+inch+round+fire+grate&qid=1593024034&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-3




well I do have to admit I have tried it on 14 and or 16 wire once or twice in a pinch with no issues over the years. I could feel a slight warmth but that was it. Though I recommend not to do that.  Now my 12 gauge only gets warm where it is sitting right up near the steamer putting off all that heat so I can keep the connection out of the rain. And so is everything else right there warm. But if I don't have it near there it doesn't get warm.

Oh that looks like a nice false bottom. Though that will steam off more water than Those 2 bricks have 2 others below it on end lengthwise with the element going inbetween.

and as for wire sizes I was mentioning https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Electrical_Outlet_Wire_Size.php#:~:text=For%20a%2015%2DAmp%20circuit,copper%2Dclad%20aluminum%20wire).




I must say I don't understand the thinking behind the false bottom. With a solid false bottom, you are just forcing the steam up the sides and making it take longer to heat up the center bags. You are just heating up the solid false bottom instead of the bags. The more steam you get into the drum the faster the bags will heat up. So it takes less time to do the same process.




I thought about that too when I first put all the bags together. But for the center bags there is space between them too. 8 bags per row, 6 around the outside and 2 on the inside. And there is water on the solid false bottom either from when I fill the steamer and just don't lift the lid to make it go off or because I fill just slightly over the false bottom so maybe a centimeter of water on the bottom. So there is water to steam up in the center to not slow things down like we both had thought about. And then once the Steamer is up the temperature then it won't matter anyways once that water steams off the false bottom.. but it doesn't really because of the steaming airflow cycle inside, water will steam up to the lid then drop down towards the center and side because I try and restrict water from steaming off without building up any pressure.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26808476 - 07/07/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I want to run my steel drum on a little pressure, maybe at 2-3 PSI, no more. Can someone help me find pressure valve and "rocker"?


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26808637 - 07/07/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Running at 2 to 3 psi is a waste of time. It does absolutely nothing but cost more money to build. There is a reason no one tries to pressurize their steamers. It is because it makes no difference in the time needed to steam your bags.



By the chart, you raise the temp by 9 degrees. But if you really want to do it here is what I bought. A rocker is not needed...

https://www.amazon.com/Presto-Steam-Gauge-Pressure-Canner/dp/B001E296AS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=presto+pressure+gauge&qid=1594135308&s=industrial&sr=1-1-catcorr

https://www.amazon.com/85407-Pressure-Cooker-Interlock-Presto/dp/B00KB8DZVC/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=presto+pressure+Presto+Interlock+Assembly&qid=1594135520&s=industrial&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Devices-Pressure-Relief-Adjustable/dp/B007GDY3CU/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=adjustable+pressure+release+valve&qid=1594135649&sr=8-2

You do need the interlock. Because your lid will be sucked down when cooling if you don't have it. Then you will have to buy another lid for your drum.

You could use a rocker if you want to it would do the same thing as the interlock. But you only need one or the other...

https://www.amazon.com/Sydien-Universal-Replacement-Regulator-Pressure/dp/B07FDXQ114/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=presto+rocker&qid=1594136311&sr=8-9


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (07/07/20 09:43 AM)


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26808794 - 07/07/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

And there was a discussion years back on shroomery on putting a steel drum under even that much pressure is dangerous. I don't remember all the math but what it comes out to is all that surface area of the drum adds pounds to everything of pressure or something so that even though it is only 2-3 psi, if it blows it blows with added force because of the big area. There was a thread or two of this talk with an engineer or two weighing in so you might want to do a little more research. Sorry I couldn't be more help on the details but it was a while ago.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: seagu]
    #26808830 - 07/07/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I remember reading something like that. But the main thing I remember is even under the 3 psi pressure it did nothing to help. 9 degrees really!! I can run mine under a small amount of pressure if I want to. It is already set up to do it. But it does nothing so all I did was waste time and money setting it up like that.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26809997 - 07/07/20 10:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Sterilisation is time * pressure.
It's logical that more pressure means shorter sterilisation time.

I will anyway sterilising 12 hours when the temperature reaches 98-100°C, but I will be more calm with added little pressure / higher temperature. And I know 2-3 PSI is not gonna hurt the drum.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26810003 - 07/07/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, I ordered PID and K-probe... Do I need to stick that probe into one bag at the top of the drum? To read core temperature.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26810028 - 07/07/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
Sterilisation is time * pressure.
It's logical that more pressure means shorter sterilisation time.

I will anyway sterilising 12 hours when the temperature reaches 98-100°C, but I will be more calm with added little pressure / higher temperature. And I know 2-3 PSI is not gonna hurt the drum.




Again you are only adding 9 degrees farenheit doing 3 psi. Check the chart I posted. But if you want to add some psi go for it. I ran my drum at 3 psi for about a year until I found it did not help. My drum was never damaged. Well once it sucked the lid down when cooling when I did not use the interlock.

Put the probe in the top bag and watch it when it hits 200F add the time you are going to steam for and that is how long you steam for every time but you have the probe coming through the side of the drum as high as possible and still be able to put the lid on.

You do not put the probe in the bag every time.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26810033 - 07/07/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So 93-94°C? For how long, 12h?


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26810040 - 07/07/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I do mine for 11 hours plus my heat up time which is about 45 minutes. So the total time for me is about 12 hours. But to be safe you can run it for 12 hours once the top bag reaches 200F. When I was running a 1650 watt element my total time was 18 hours because it took 6 hours to heat up. The 1650 watt element was a money pit. Now when I miss the 1650 watt element. I just flush a few dollars down my toilet and that solves the problem.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26810053 - 07/07/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You're really treasure of knowledge, thank you for helping me and others.

I have 4500 W element. Now waiting for PID and I hope it's simple to use and install/program.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26810098 - 07/07/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

which PID did you buy?


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26810203 - 07/08/20 02:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Inkbird ITC-106VH. From the link on the top of this page.


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou] * 1
    #26810839 - 07/08/20 11:21 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, good choice it makes things easier for you to have the kit. did you get the 25 or 40 SSR? Both will work but I hope you got the 40DA it is more heavy-duty and it cost the same.

Are you going to use a low water cut off or a timer? Will you use an automatic water fill? Will you be using a fan to cool the SSR? These are questions you need to answer.

Here is a diagram I drew up for my tek to wire everything properly. I would suggest you wire it like this. Many people I have helped thought they knew better and they keep blowing up timers. So wire it like in this  and you will not have a problem...



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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26811868 - 07/08/20 11:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I ordered the bigger one. I will mount small cooling fan on heatsink, I saw that somewhere.

Automatic fill, yes. With steel float valve in the drum. What's "low water cut off"?

What is "outlet" on picture?


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Re: 55 gallons sterilizer. PID controller alternative. [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26811909 - 07/09/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The low water cut off will shut off the element if the water gets too low and stop you from burning up your element.

The outlet is where the cord for the element plugs in. You can also Wire it directly to the element. The way I have the low water shut off wired it uses low voltage.


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