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OfflineLearyfanS
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Al Queada/Iraq connection
    #2677420 - 05/14/04 12:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was listening to the "O'Reilly Factor" yesterday. That one guy who always substitutes for O'Reilly was hosting.

He was talking about the Berg beheading, and made the statement that the idea that there is no Al Quaeda/Iraq connection is "ridiculous".

Wtf?





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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2677455 - 05/14/04 12:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ah fuck knows leary..I think the deal is if they keep telling themselves it long enough they think it makes it true.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2677526 - 05/14/04 12:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Saddam Hussain is evil; Osama Bin Laden is evil; obviously their in cahoots. The fact that there're al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists in Iraq now is even more proof.

What more proof do you need?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2677676 - 05/14/04 01:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The Iraq-Al Queda connection is simple: We depose Saddam and create a power vacuum, so Al Queda comes in and takes over.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2677965 - 05/14/04 02:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well, the guy that is currently running amuck in Iraq, Zarqawi, has been in Iraq for a long time. He was living at the courtesy of Sadam Hussein for a while. If he is Al Qaeda, how can you say they had nothing to do with Iraq?
However, I think the focus on 'name brand' terrorists also seems to exhonorate the Iraqi regime. They paid the families of suicide bombers and harbored and trained several known terrorist like Abul Abbas.
Maybe Saddam and Bin Laden aren't best buds, but it seems pretty impluasible to say there is no connection at all. Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with Sadam Hussein in 1998.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2677979 - 05/14/04 02:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with Sadam Hussein in 1998.



Source?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2677991 - 05/14/04 02:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was referring to that document that the Telegraph discovered last April. The Toronto Star also reported on it http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Content...ol=968793972154


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2678056 - 05/14/04 03:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with Sadam Hussein in 1998.



Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with a CIA official in an American hospital in Dubai in July of 2001. Read about it here.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2678067 - 05/14/04 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with Sadam Hussein in 1998.




Bin Laden met with CIA in July 2001

^^^^Does that mean that Bin Laden and the CIA are in cahoots?






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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
    #2678097 - 05/14/04 03:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Let us also not forget that Bin Laden met with a CIA official in an American hospital in Dubai in July of 2001. Read about it here.




That doesn't make any sense at all. I also would not trust the French press to report about 'secret' American policy obviously they have more than a few biases.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2678104 - 05/14/04 03:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You guys will believe anything no matter how absurd. A 2 and a half year old article in some loony scandal sheet, making blockbuster claims, that wasn't picked up by any reputable newspaper or other news service. It must be true.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2678106 - 05/14/04 03:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So just because something is biased that means it's false?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2678201 - 05/14/04 03:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You guys will believe anything no matter how absurd.




If you believe that there is a 9/11/Saddam connection then you have no business making that statement.







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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2678306 - 05/14/04 04:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Define connection


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2678346 - 05/14/04 04:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Define connection




Was Saddam Hussein partly responsible for 9/11.






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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2678353 - 05/14/04 04:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Not that I know of


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2678634 - 05/14/04 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

Was Saddam Hussein partly responsible for 9/11.





I don't think anyone on this board believes that, and the Bush Administration certainly has made no claim that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2678679 - 05/14/04 05:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

A Saddam/Al Qaeda connection? Maybe.

Saddam/9-11 connection? Doubtfull

Saddam/terrorism connection? Fact


It's not as if Al Qaeda needed the resources of Iraq to pull off the job. Maybe Saddam bought the box cutters. :smirk:


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2678722 - 05/14/04 05:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think anyone on this board believes that, and the Bush Administration certainly has made no claim that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.



Unlike several here who claim Bush knew.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2678753 - 05/14/04 05:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

I don't think anyone on this board believes that, and the Bush Administration certainly has made no claim that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.



Unlike several here who claim Bush knew.



Of course he knew. It's just a matter of what he knew, when, and what he did to stop it.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2678768 - 05/14/04 05:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure Bush knew - within minutes of it happening. Just like me.


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: phi1618]
    #2678778 - 05/14/04 05:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
    #2679071 - 05/14/04 06:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Of course he knew. It's just a matter of what he knew, when, and what he did to stop it.




This is a little off topic, but I find it ironic you get mad that Bush sees one or two vague memos that Al Qaeda is going to attack the US soon and doesn't do anything, but when the director of the CIA tells him Iraq is a real threat and that the WMD intelligence is a "slam dunk", you say he is misleading and overeacting. Imagine if Tenet had told Bush 9/11 was a "slam dunk".
There was FAR more evidence that Iraq was a threat and Sadam had WMD, than that Al Qaeda was going to attack the WTC. Still you accuse Bush of overeacting and misleading the country with regards to Iraq, and being complacent with the 9/11 information. Not very consistent.


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2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2679097 - 05/14/04 06:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
There was FAR more evidence that Iraq was a threat and Sadam had WMD...



Please, direct us to the evidence that at the time of Bush's run up to war that Iraq had WMDs and was a threat to the U.S. I'd REALLY like to see it. Every time I ask for this evidence, no war monger is able to produce it.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
    #2679111 - 05/14/04 06:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Read Bob Woodward's book.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2679113 - 05/14/04 06:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No, I'm asking you. You made a claim, back it up.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
    #2679170 - 05/14/04 06:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

*lifts up a stone*

Nope...no evidence under here... :smirk:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
    #2679178 - 05/14/04 06:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/iraqintell/home.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

I should not have to demonstrate something that was common knowledge to everyone but conspiaracy theorists. This is like when my freind demands I prove we didn't fake the moon landing.
If you want the facts read up. Maybe you think all the intel was total bullshit, but it was a hell of alot more than a couple of vague memos. Again, George Tenet, when asked by Bush "Are we sure Iraq has WMDs?" answered the intelligence was "a slam dunk". I don't have access to all the CIAs top secret documents, but I think it is fair to assume if you are the president and the director of the CIA tells you it so you believe it.


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3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2679240 - 05/14/04 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

what you fail to recognize is that between the time
that the information was deemed to be a `slam dunk`
and when it was presented to the rest of the united
states as justification for invading iraq, it had been
debunked.

but they still roled with it.

slam dunks miss sometimes, I guess...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
    #2679386 - 05/14/04 07:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Do you have proof of that?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2680131 - 05/14/04 11:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you have proof that Iraq was a threat to the US, then you shouldn?t be here. You should be on the phone to the White House, because they could really use you.

Dude at this point, believing that Iraq was a real threat to the US is more far fetched than believing that Bush knew about 9/11.




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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2680213 - 05/14/04 11:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Try reading it again and you will see that is not what he is saying.

He's saying that Bush had more reason to believe that Iraq was a threat to the US, than he had to believe that Al Qaeda was going to hijack some planes and crash them into the WTC.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2680240 - 05/14/04 11:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I guess.





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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2680268 - 05/14/04 11:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)



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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2682532 - 05/15/04 03:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

one thing is clear: the Bush administration has succesfully linked Iraq with al qaida.


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2683989 - 05/15/04 11:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

actually, I'm just saying that D_S's claim that bush
was only acting on tenet's 'slam dunk' shpiel isn't
a get out of jail free card for the claim.

chronologically, there is a lot that came between
tenet's claim and when he got up and sold it to
us in the SOTU address.

I haven't seen anything presented by anyone that
definitively says that al queda and saddam had
dealings, though it's painfully obvious that there
are pro-al queda elements operating in iraq now.

whether that's due to the 'power vaccuum' that
someone else referred to or whether they've
been there all along, now that's debatable.


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
    #2684009 - 05/15/04 11:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Do you believe he had enough reliable actionable information to stop 9/11?


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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2684372 - 05/16/04 12:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

while a lot of the conspiracy theory information
that is out there is intriguing, if you toss all
that information aside and account only for the
official version of things then...

bush? no.

but I believe that all the necessary information,
indicators and warnings existed within the broader
federal law enforcement and intelligence communities,
it just wasn't percolated up and disseminated in a
way that would have allowed people to crack this
thing before it was executed.

and even when people did try to escalate things, they
hit roadblocks, dead ends and disinterest.

though, despite fear of being called a stupid, gullible
libbie, I must admit there are a lot of curiousities that
really make you wonder if the some of the conspiracy
theories floating around out there might have some
validity to them.

bush/saudi connections, existing war plans, cia meetings,
political agendas, bombs in the wtc, non-responsive faa/norad,
israeli operatives, shorted stocks, vacant wtc offices, flight
manifests and all those wonderful things...


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,246
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
    #2685683 - 05/16/04 06:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bush? no.



:thumbup:


Quote:

though, despite fear of being called a stupid, gullible
libbie, I must admit there are a lot of curiousities that
really make you wonder if the some of the conspiracy
theories floating around out there might have some
validity to them.



It's not believing there are conspiracies that makes people stupid gullible libbies, for of course conspiracies exist. It's when despite the lack of evidence, or even no evidence at all, added to believing just about everything that comes their way... that the stupid, gullible line is crossed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 32,918
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
    #2685891 - 05/16/04 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The whole "slam dunk" thing pisses me off. Using that kind of termenology doesn?t set right with me. This isn?t basketball. Using that language is very telling of the administration?s motives.

They thought it would be a "slam dunk" politically, certainly not from a humanitarian point of view.






--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish



Edited by Learyfan (05/16/04 10:38 AM)


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
    #2686157 - 05/16/04 01:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

there's bigger things to take issue with
than the semantics of an excited intel
official.


--------------------
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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,793
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
    #2686740 - 05/16/04 04:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

but I believe that all the necessary information,
indicators and warnings existed within the broader
federal law enforcement and intelligence communities,
it just wasn't percolated up and disseminated in a
way that would have allowed people to crack this
thing before it was executed.


Watch this, if you haven't already!
The Man Who Knew


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: trendal]
    #2688693 - 05/16/04 10:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

will do


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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