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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
#2678768 - 05/14/04 03:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm sure Bush knew - within minutes of it happening. Just like me.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: phi1618]
#2678778 - 05/14/04 03:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: silversoul7]
#2679071 - 05/14/04 04:31 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said: Of course he knew. It's just a matter of what he knew, when, and what he did to stop it.
This is a little off topic, but I find it ironic you get mad that Bush sees one or two vague memos that Al Qaeda is going to attack the US soon and doesn't do anything, but when the director of the CIA tells him Iraq is a real threat and that the WMD intelligence is a "slam dunk", you say he is misleading and overeacting. Imagine if Tenet had told Bush 9/11 was a "slam dunk". There was FAR more evidence that Iraq was a threat and Sadam had WMD, than that Al Qaeda was going to attack the WTC. Still you accuse Bush of overeacting and misleading the country with regards to Iraq, and being complacent with the 9/11 information. Not very consistent.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Evolving
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2679097 - 05/14/04 04:35 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said: There was FAR more evidence that Iraq was a threat and Sadam had WMD...
Please, direct us to the evidence that at the time of Bush's run up to war that Iraq had WMDs and was a threat to the U.S. I'd REALLY like to see it. Every time I ask for this evidence, no war monger is able to produce it.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Divided_Sky
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
#2679111 - 05/14/04 04:40 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Read Bob Woodward's book.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2679113 - 05/14/04 04:40 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, I'm asking you. You made a claim, back it up.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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trendal
J♠
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Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
#2679170 - 05/14/04 04:52 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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*lifts up a stone*
Nope...no evidence under here...
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Evolving]
#2679178 - 05/14/04 04:54 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/iraqintell/home.htm http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/
I should not have to demonstrate something that was common knowledge to everyone but conspiaracy theorists. This is like when my freind demands I prove we didn't fake the moon landing. If you want the facts read up. Maybe you think all the intel was total bullshit, but it was a hell of alot more than a couple of vague memos. Again, George Tenet, when asked by Bush "Are we sure Iraq has WMDs?" answered the intelligence was "a slam dunk". I don't have access to all the CIAs top secret documents, but I think it is fair to assume if you are the president and the director of the CIA tells you it so you believe it.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2679240 - 05/14/04 05:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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what you fail to recognize is that between the time that the information was deemed to be a `slam dunk` and when it was presented to the rest of the united states as justification for invading iraq, it had been debunked.
but they still roled with it.
slam dunks miss sometimes, I guess...
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
#2679386 - 05/14/04 05:56 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you have proof of that?
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Divided_Sky]
#2680131 - 05/14/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you have proof that Iraq was a threat to the US, then you shouldn?t be here. You should be on the phone to the White House, because they could really use you.
Dude at this point, believing that Iraq was a real threat to the US is more far fetched than believing that Bush knew about 9/11.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
#2680213 - 05/14/04 09:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Try reading it again and you will see that is not what he is saying.
He's saying that Bush had more reason to believe that Iraq was a threat to the US, than he had to believe that Al Qaeda was going to hijack some planes and crash them into the WTC.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2680240 - 05/14/04 09:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
#2680268 - 05/14/04 09:46 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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infidelGOD
illusion
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Loc: there
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Learyfan]
#2682532 - 05/15/04 01:40 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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one thing is clear: the Bush administration has succesfully linked Iraq with al qaida.
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afoaf
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2683989 - 05/15/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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actually, I'm just saying that D_S's claim that bush was only acting on tenet's 'slam dunk' shpiel isn't a get out of jail free card for the claim.
chronologically, there is a lot that came between tenet's claim and when he got up and sold it to us in the SOTU address.
I haven't seen anything presented by anyone that definitively says that al queda and saddam had dealings, though it's painfully obvious that there are pro-al queda elements operating in iraq now.
whether that's due to the 'power vaccuum' that someone else referred to or whether they've been there all along, now that's debatable.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
#2684009 - 05/15/04 09:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you believe he had enough reliable actionable information to stop 9/11?
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2684372 - 05/15/04 10:31 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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while a lot of the conspiracy theory information that is out there is intriguing, if you toss all that information aside and account only for the official version of things then...
bush? no.
but I believe that all the necessary information, indicators and warnings existed within the broader federal law enforcement and intelligence communities, it just wasn't percolated up and disseminated in a way that would have allowed people to crack this thing before it was executed.
and even when people did try to escalate things, they hit roadblocks, dead ends and disinterest.
though, despite fear of being called a stupid, gullible libbie, I must admit there are a lot of curiousities that really make you wonder if the some of the conspiracy theories floating around out there might have some validity to them.
bush/saudi connections, existing war plans, cia meetings, political agendas, bombs in the wtc, non-responsive faa/norad, israeli operatives, shorted stocks, vacant wtc offices, flight manifests and all those wonderful things...
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
#2685683 - 05/16/04 04:54 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bush? no.
Quote:
though, despite fear of being called a stupid, gullible libbie, I must admit there are a lot of curiousities that really make you wonder if the some of the conspiracy theories floating around out there might have some validity to them.
It's not believing there are conspiracies that makes people stupid gullible libbies, for of course conspiracies exist. It's when despite the lack of evidence, or even no evidence at all, added to believing just about everything that comes their way... that the stupid, gullible line is crossed.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Al Queada/Iraq connection [Re: afoaf]
#2685891 - 05/16/04 08:36 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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The whole "slam dunk" thing pisses me off. Using that kind of termenology doesn?t set right with me. This isn?t basketball. Using that language is very telling of the administration?s motives. They thought it would be a "slam dunk" politically, certainly not from a humanitarian point of view.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
Edited by Learyfan (05/16/04 08:38 AM)
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