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Offlinexliluzihurtx
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How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues"
    #26762812 - 06/21/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Often when people talk about the right conditions to take mushrooms, they emphasize two things: mindset and setting. This makes sense in most cases of recreational mushroom use, however, when using mushrooms to help aid one's mental illness (such as depression, anxiety, self-loathing, etc) how does one approach tripping with the right "mindset"?

I have struggled with depression for the past four years, I struggle with self-loathing, regret, and grief (among other things) and have been in therapy for as long as I can remember. I have tried many different treatments and while i've done mushrooms a handful of times in the past recreationally, I have recently wanted to try using them to help alleviate myself of some of these problems. My fear, however, is that in exploring these many difficult things about myself, I will plunge into a bad trip filled with intrusive thoughts, self-loathing, and anxiety. Some say bad trips are more rewarding in the long run as they force you to face some things about yourself that may scare you or that you need to work on. This may be true, but I would still like to avoid a traumatic experience.

So my question is, where is the line between tripping to alleviate mental issues, and not tripping because it may worsen these issues or cause a bad trip? My main fear for when I trip next is that my "self-hating" intrusive thoughts will invade my head and cause me to spiral. At the same time, i'd like to face this problem of mine and maybe find some answers through the trip. So i'm not exactly sure how to approach it.

Sorry if i'm not conveying my thoughts well. I appreciate any insight.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx] * 1
    #26762850 - 06/21/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Actions have consequences.

Non-action has consequences,

Every choice you make is a risk/reward balance. You are constantly deciding whether a given choice is worth the risk. That may not seem obvious as it is done mostly subconsciously.

Now psychedelics aren’t the only way to work through your mental troubles. I personally believe that they have a bigger risk than say talk therapy, but I also think the reward can be much much higher (although that isn’t guaranteed). It’s hard to tell you, definitively, that your particular issues will cause you to spiral out of control on psychedelics. And it is equally as hard to tell you the opposite. There are just too many variables.

You need the weigh the risk and rewards and cone to that conclusion based on: Are you willing to face the consequences for the possibility of a huge leap in dealing with your issues?

Although I feel lower doses (of mushrooms at least) offer a unique space for introspection while still inhabiting the realm of the “I”.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx]
    #26762907 - 06/21/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
...
Although I feel lower doses (of mushrooms at least) offer a unique space for introspection while still inhabiting the realm of the “I”.



I agree with what you seem to be saying here, and tend to agree that low doses can be productive, however, I think the value is greatest when the person afflicted with mental discomfort resolves to look at mind with some detachment:

Observing self over time, and others over time, and learning about mind, memory, short term memory, mood, dreams, etc. this will give the context against which understanding can leverage some relief.

so, somehow look for the humor in things, and understand what you can about mind, and see it at work in your life, then lean into that understanding to make changes. psychedelics are not a one size fits all proposition.

the fact that the mind is a sticky thing can really become very funny.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx] * 1
    #26762909 - 06/21/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I wish i could give you an answer like it was as easy as the answer to 1 + 1 = 2, but it’s something I believe one must discover on their own through trial and error.  Regardless I’ll share with you how/why I use psychedelics.
To me, psychedelics are a stand in or replacement for Lucid Dreaming, and they induce a hallucinogenic state akin to a lucid dream when I take them - within which I can work out whatever I need to or whatever I desire - simply via imagining it.  I don’t think that’s a typical reaction for most people who take them, but it’s what happens for me about 1/3rd - 1/2 the time I take them.  Anything that evokes primal Non-Dual awareness is my remedy.  Lucid dreaming does it for me, but they occur very rarely now a days and they don’t last long enough for me to work through everything I need to in order to acquire true equanimity with life and myself, psychedelics, however - they afford me that same sense of mystical experience of non-dual awareness and they act long enough for me to work out everything I need to.  Hallucinations are pure like that, akin to magic in that the only limits are ones own imagination.  The more skillful the user, the greater the potential benefits one can derive from their hallucinations, wether by dreaming or when induced by psychedelic substances.  What goes on during this experience is only secretly known to myself - By that I mean it only makes sense to my Mind, in that it’s an inherently private & personal experience.
Though I imagine others who use psychedelics probably also have a notion of its incomparable potential in regards to both learning & healing. 

Lucid dreaming, wether by hallucinogenics or by dreaming while asleep at night has been the only thing that ever really “did the trick” -or- “cut the mustard” - in terms of alleviating or completely blowing depression & addiction  out of the water.  I grew up lucid dreaming regularly, but as I got older they occurred less and less frequently until it was no longer occurring often enough for it to be my magic trick, but to me psychedelics perform the same function, in that they enable me to induce that state while either awake or asleep - and the lucid dreaming or lucid hallucinating state has been and is  all I’ve ever needed to examine & correct “ a depression/broken skipping record player” that is at times what my brain’s default mode is inclined to slip into. 

Without psychs I’m seemingly indentured to serious depressive spells that can last for up to 6 months, utterly debilitating my life.  With them, the coast is clear - and I can think clearly afterwards, due to whatever occurred during the trip & not just because I tripped.  The past 3 years I’ve been  macrodosing 5 dried grams of APE somewhere between 2-5 times a year and that has been enough without adding an extra.
I could not be happier with this arrangement & the benefit it has brought into my life. I feel sturdier than ever.  Like I have primordial confidence & trust in myself and reality.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/21/20 12:15 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx] * 1
    #26764770 - 06/21/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You seem quite well informed. On the one hand, with active or lingering mental issues, any substance, let alone a psychedelic, can do tremendous harm from which it is quite difficult to recover. On the other hand, it seems to be true that shrooms -- used without incident -- can be very healing. One thing you might try is low doses -- with a low dose you can get a feel for what is going on, but the "freak out" potential is much lower.

All that said, I do not know you or your situation remotely, but I hope these words are a little helpful. :smile:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #26773704 - 06/22/20 07:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Re: xliluzihurtx

.      Like the bumper sticker says: "You don't have to believe everything you think"

.    The 'self loathing' etc. is all thought,
but you identify with it instead of observing the thoughts,
thus you generate more thoughts....endlessly ... resulting after awhile in really yucky feelings.

.    There is nothing wrong with us because, so called negative thoughts arise from time to time,
resisting such thoughts, implies that they have some sort of importance, and furthermore produces more such thoughts, with the result of feelings of hopelessness.

.      Meditation is (among other 'things') a tool to begin to make the distinctions between thought, identification, observation (or witnessing in a detached manner), and a broader background awareness. But it is not a quick process.
.    The hope that psychedelics will fix the issue, is of course the hope that the issue can be resolved quickly. But I think that without, understanding the distinctions mentioned above, there is indeed as great a chance of psychedelics, making the issue worse, rather than better as mentioned by some previous poster(s).

.    To get more of a handle on the distinctions,one could listen to Noah Elkrief at
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noah+elkrief

or listen to Ajahn Sumedho's talks:
https://dharmaseed.org/teacher/10/

or read some of his stuff:
ajahn sumedho, free pdf:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ajahn+sumedho%2C+free+pdf&t=hq&ia=web

Many have gone thru periods in life dealing with the same or similar issues. It can be overcome, but not necessarily in the time frame we wish to impose on ourselves.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: laughingdog]
    #26773793 - 06/22/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

agree with above except when saying meditation is a tool to make distinctions between some series of thought objects listed above.

from my point of view, meditation is a thought practice.
a gentle, detached, and honest thought form (attitude) that can be invoked to help develop calm and insight (which are also thought forms). The more it is practiced, the more natural it becomes.

for years I struggled with the literature that berates thinking as the opposite of meditation, or that highlights sensation as a non-thought form because it is directly from the body or the universe rather than from internal origins.

At this point I cannot see any separation in fundamental form in the mind or the brain, between sensation, memory, thought dialog, meditation practice, emotion, dreaming etc. all are native to the domain of mind and are equally thought forms that arise and pass away as a series of pulse trains of energy in the cerebral cortex.

the functional difference of meditation, from other thought forms, is that it is a gentle kind of thought that disentangles other thoughts which may rage unchecked unless addressed with intentional detached calm. Normally for me it follows the breathing.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26773830 - 06/22/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Meditation as a means for generating the inner awakening required for liberation operates to become finer and finer by means of the higher discriminatory thought processes (keen discernment) and mental environments burning themselves and the hindrances & barriers that they counter until a clean & clear reflection is thereby made possible (more accurate & precise than if not meditative).  The Jhanas are a perfect example of how more initial fabrication leads to less & less fabrication the finer and finer & more- until as near possible to absolute emptiness remains.  Think of it being similarly to how one balances both sides of an equation when attempting to simplify ..  This process Progressing through mundane & supra-mundane stages - the higher/finer one progresses the more “fabrication” drops away. 

This is the burning up of, or dropping away of body & mind. 

The attainment of any jhana comes about through a twofold process of development. On one side the states obstructive to it, called its factors of abandonment, have to be eliminated, &on the other - the states composing it, called its factors of possession, have to be acquired.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/22/20 09:45 AM)


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26774091 - 06/22/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

yes it's kinda like stepping into more wholesome shoes

you get it

more holy shoes more fine shoes, removing jams like glitch machines

like transcending disruption


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26774116 - 06/22/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

As Fernando would say, the practice of meditation is valuable.
It has personal value, whether you think it or not.
For me it is different in quality from ordinary thinking but not different in essence.
I do not make reference any longer to Buddhist treatises that use words which I cannot justify, or which allude to something mystical

eg. "This is the burning up of, or dropping away of body & mind."

such a statement rings false to me.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26774340 - 06/22/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A figure of outdated baggy speech no doubt.  Putting it another way would have been more appropriate for this area of the internet.  The rest holds.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx]
    #26774501 - 06/22/20 03:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I recommend trying a number of different dosage levels across a long period of time. However, I've personally gotten the most long term benefit out of high doses, but those have also been the most mentally difficult and challenging. I can easily see a high dose trip going south fast.

No one really knows for sure how to best use psychedelics to treat mental illness, so I agree with using trial and error. I'd also recommend spending time reflecting on each trip and putting at least 2 weeks between trips, if not a month or more for high doses.


Edited by nooneman (06/22/20 03:08 PM)


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: nooneman]
    #26775970 - 06/23/20 06:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

yes yes but it is meant as transcending as sweeping up the mind clearing

it is like smoking marijuana it boosts the mind into something more something more aware

like if your head is away from te key hole when you turn your head you are more

like boosting the mind getting there

it is l ike you say to the weeds you are nice yu are false

and as they are part of you when they are combined it melts away

like falling away


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx]
    #26777640 - 06/23/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I recommend the use of the best tripping manual ever written, namely BE HERE NOW. It will first engage your Sensate (visual) function, then your Thinking function, your Feeling function and your Intuitive function. The last will elicit a state of contemplation.

The first portion of the book should be read maybe a day or two before you trip because it is an anecdotal report worth reflecting upon. The core book (in brown or yellow) should be read after the peak begins to wane but definitely during the trip. The third portion of the book you have the rest of your life to absorb. You can find a used one reasonably priced on Amazon (or Amazonsmile, my preference). I have given away many and gone through several since 1973. The Perennial Philosophy of mysticism can guide you without being doctrinaire.  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0517543052/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=be+here+now&qid=1592962606&sr=8-1&dchild=1



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26777862 - 06/23/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

THat was a good book...but to my mind The Power of Now supplanted it. I do admit that Eckhart Tolle reminds me a bit of Hannibal Lector.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26778008 - 06/23/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

cannibalize  the false sense of self ...

          Now!


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26778423 - 06/24/20 05:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

one word:
"breathe"


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: How to achieve the right mindset when tripping to alleviate "mental issues" [Re: xliluzihurtx]
    #26778428 - 06/24/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You'll be in a safe setting with no distractions or people that would interupt you, no obligations the next day, food, water, amenities.

After the come up of 2 hours your begin to spin, after 3 to 4 hours you'll get those intrusive mahems.

If you've had above 5g, you'll likely "crash through" the worst of it.

You basically got to bite the stick and headbut through a brick wall.

Knowledge, and I mean knowledge, of the LD50 will be good overall, to support you incase of fears of toxicity because the right fungi is not toxic unless mega super impossibly abused.

With these as a basis going into it you technically shouldn't have a bad trip, just a rough one at times. A lot of people say it's akin to a plane taking off, with turbulence after take off, then mostly smooth sailing with a bit of turbulence in between, but well overall.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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