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OfflineSabnock
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling]
    #26757995 - 06/19/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
Shrooms are poisonous.
They don't "bring one home," rather they poison you into a feeling of illusory elation.
Has enlightenment become that cheap, where one can eat a few caps and experience authentic higher states of consciousness and being?




How's that any different than taking Ayahuasca like you want to do though? Mushrooms aren't poisonous, they contain a variation of DMT (4-HO-DMT) aka Psilocin, they don't bring you into an illusory state, they're as capable as DMT is for illumination/awakening and bringing the unconscious to the conscious mind, and as capable of producing higher states. They do have a difference in terms of effects, but i've had Psilohuasca using mushrooms with Rue as well as 4-ACO-DMT (which turns into Psilocin) with Rue and it's pretty much identical to Aya with oral DMT, just that DMT has a bit of a clearer/cleaner/sharper feel to it and activates a bit more receptor sites than Psilocin does, but i've gotten the same stuff from Psilohuasca that i have from Ayahuasca, the Light shines through and one can become illuminated. The whole mushrooms are poisonous thing is just propaganda/misinformation/myth from the 60's to scare people away from them. I think i remember you saying that mushrooms seemed dark or evil to you, anytime i've taken them it's actually been a lot more tolerable/manageable and lighter/gentler compared to oral DMT, oral DMT is a beast and can be quite terrifying on occasion.

Overall though, i do prefer Aya with oral DMT over Psilohuasca because i do feel like DMT is more genuine because it's a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the body, and Psilocin isn't, but that doesn't mean Psilocin isn't capable of the same things. Now, mushrooms on their own, different than Psilohuasca, so in terms of mushrooms i do prefer the Psilohuasca, but even mushrooms or even 4-ACO on their own, still just fine and more manageable ime for me personally than oral DMT. With Psilocin you have more wiggle room, it's gentler, softer, more relaxed, DMT is more sharp, serious, disciplining, can easily scare someone away if not approached properly, mushrooms seem to be more forgiving in that sense.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26758856 - 06/20/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Haha had to laugh though; most field guides do describe psychoactive mushrooms as “poisonous”. Always makes me laugh, one of the safest psychoactive drugs known to man :awesome:


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“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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OfflineHappinessfeeling
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26759650 - 06/20/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

you're just poisoning yourself to get high, but fine be an idiot and ridicule what I said.


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I am Jah Jesus Christ Snoop Doggy Dogg Burning Ganja Bush Lord Shiva King Death Row Kambodia Allah Mahavishnu Masta Killa King Wu-Tang Lord Gautauma Buddha Om Krishna.
My name is Nishith Vijay a.k.a. HappinessFeeling.


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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling]
    #26759756 - 06/20/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
Shrooms are poisonous.
They don't "bring one home," rather they poison you into a feeling of illusory elation.
Has enlightenment become that cheap, where one can eat a few caps and experience authentic higher states of consciousness and being?




Ever heard of chemognosis? Fact: The mushroom is a poison, also fact: it can be an invaluable tool of introspection, and illumination as it pertains to Shamanistic practices.
To paraphrase a wiser man than myself, "the mushroom is a tool, and like a hammer it can be used to build a house, or crack a skull, or simply be juggled for entertainment. The users intent and ability, determine it's efficacy and it's value to those ends."
If enlightenment is a deep hole, you can spend a decade digging by hand, or you can learn to use an excavator and dig to the same depth in a few hours. You still need to spend the time learning to use the excavator, or you'll end up making no progress, or even hurting yourself, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing, or that it cheapens the experience. JM2C.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling]
    #26759762 - 06/20/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
you're just poisoning yourself to get high, but fine be an idiot and ridicule what I said.




If mushrooms were poisonous, they would not have been found to be physiologically safer than Cannabis, and Psilocybin wouldn't be being fast tracked by the FDA to becoming a legal and effective psychotherapy treatment projected to be legal for clinical use within the next couple years or so.


The only way mushrooms would be poisoned is if they were contaminated with some sort of fungi or bacteria that gave you something like food poisoning.

As i mentioned in my message last night, Psychedelics in general can sometimes feel like you've been poisoned, there's numerous people who've said they've felt poisoned after consuming Ayahuasca for example. Mescaline-containing Cacti can also feel like that and make you vomit. It just comes with the territory, those thoughts are just the ego freaking out because it's a dramatic shift in consciousness especially during the come up so it tries to struggle and fight and resist during the come up and the ego thinks something is wrong, but nothing is wrong but one's own dark/negative-leaning thoughts.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26759764 - 06/20/20 12:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

As far as like other animals go, it's a kind of poison or deterrent, meant to deter consumption by those animals, however in terms of toxicity or harm, mushrooms are completely physiologically safe and healthy.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling] * 1
    #26760147 - 06/20/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
you're just poisoning yourself to get high, but fine be an idiot and ridicule what I said.





OK:  :hyperlol:  :sammy:  :jonespalm:  :joneswtf:  :wat:  :whattefuck2:  :cujo:  :stevolmao:  :poundsalt:  :racethread:  :smuglook:  :awwhellno:  :lamastare:  :whowouldsaysuchathing:  :nojustno:  :fuckyouandalsoyou:  :callingbullshit:  :herpderp:  :allsodisappointed:


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Offlinemrpharmacist
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26762405 - 06/21/20 07:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Great OP and thread.

As for the comment about mushrooms being a poison, it's a moot point. Nearly every drug (alcohol!!) and plant medicine could be labelled a poison.

The real question is, what did or do the mushrooms do for each individual? 

For myself, a 3-4g dose of mushrooms shook me out of a 15 years crack/heroin/opiate habit.  I was given clear instructions to "go to the jungle to heal myself".  What followed were a series of trips to Peru drinking Ayahuasca and San Pedro, which healed an auto-immune disease and  I came out the other side a clean and content human being.  If that's not enlightenment, I don't know what is!

I attribute this radical shift to the mushrooms which were the catalyst for this positive transformation. 

Now I like to use mushrooms (and cactus) to reconnect me with nature and provide a reset. They also work to ease some of the anxiety that's crept in during these past few months.

100% medicine for me.

Mr P :smile:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: mrpharmacist] * 1
    #26763156 - 06/21/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mrpharmacist said:
As for the comment about mushrooms being a poison, it's a moot point.




No it's not, unless nothing means anything that is.  :laugh2:

The consumption level that kills mammals (well rats in tests) is about half their body weight.  By that measure distilled water is a poison. 

Good story though.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26763457 - 06/21/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

When the majority of people hear the word “poison”, they think of something that can cause harm, or can kill. Some mushrooms indeed can kill. And some apparently cause pretty horrific deaths.

But for F.Sake! psilocybin mushrooms CANNOT kill you. So how the F. are they a poison?

Anyway,,back to the OP;,what do mushrooms do to benefit you?

Carry on


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineHappinessfeeling
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26768090 - 06/21/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

shrooms intoxicate you and the psychedelic high that you get from ingesting them is the poison circulating through your entire system, and coming down is the poison exiting your body.


--------------------
I am Jah Jesus Christ Snoop Doggy Dogg Burning Ganja Bush Lord Shiva King Death Row Kambodia Allah Mahavishnu Masta Killa King Wu-Tang Lord Gautauma Buddha Om Krishna.
My name is Nishith Vijay a.k.a. HappinessFeeling.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling] * 1
    #26768238 - 06/21/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That probably really makes your trips difficult. :utterconfusion:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26768240 - 06/21/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Oh damn I was gonna post about what mushrooms do to benefit me:laugh2:

They are absolutely the key to vast productivity in writing fiction, something I've struggled with in the past.  I once quit them for a long time in the middle of a novel I was finishing, just to prove to myself that I could write without them as well.

But it's so much easier to use them, I get to see the story as if it were a movie, and I dictate it while tripping, then transcribe it later for editing. 

By far the most useful drug I've ever used when it comes to sustained creativity (I haven't tried LSD but I've heard that about it as well).  :cookiemonster:


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Offlinemrpharmacist
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26783319 - 06/25/20 09:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting to hear how mushrooms have driven your creativity, particularly in the realm of writing!  I was about a third of the way through writing my novel, but it's been moved to the back burner since I become a dad. 

Don't have as much free time since the little guy came into my life.  That said, I did manage to write and publish my first children's book in the last 2 years.  This book was directly inspired by San Pedro cactus, so I would agree there is strong a link between these plant medicines (poisons!? haha!) and creativity.  Never thought I'd write a rhyming kids book! :smile:

I'm currently feeling the call to pick up the novel manuscript again and re-start.  Perhaps the mushrooms will be the catalyst to drive this!?

I just need to grow some now, and then I can get started.  My spores arrived today, so inoculating my PF tek jars this weekend.  First attempt....  :-)

Mr P :smile:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: mrpharmacist]
    #26783364 - 06/25/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The difference IME is one between being able to slowly build a story, and becoming truly prolific.  I always wondered how some people could just go in there and churn it out at a high level - but now I know a method to get there.

Rhyming kids book - very cool. :cookiemonster:


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling]
    #26807319 - 07/06/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've been out of town for a bit and am just returning to this thread - there's been a lot of interesting discussion, but this comment sticks out to me, in particular:

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
you're just poisoning yourself to get high, but fine be an idiot and ridicule what I said.




First of all, I'll just say that calling someone an idiot just for disagreeing with you doesn't make your argument any more plausible. Since this is the Internet, I can't say I'm terribly surprised to see that sort of thing, but it's worth pointing out that it does nothing to support your argument. I started this thread to have a healthy discussion. I'm fine with people getting into arguments - arguments are useful tools for discovery and changing our understanding of the world. However, when you start throwing out insults at people you're only harming that discussion. So, let's be respectful moving forward, okay?

As for the question of whether or not mushrooms are poisonous, I don't think it's entirely straightforward. This isn't the first time I've heard the argument that psilocybin is poisonous. It comes up every once-in-a-while when I talk with other psychonauts or mycologists, which suggests to me that it's not a black-and-white issue, and that there's room for debate.

In my own opinion, I think it depends on what your definition of poison is. To that end, it could be that your disagreement with some of the other commenters just comes down to a matter of semantics. For example, if your definition of a poison is something that causes nausea and makes one feel sick, then sure, mushrooms are poisonous. However, I don't think that's the best definition of a poison.

I think a better definition of a poison is a substance which has a low LD50 (the LD50 of a substance is the dosage, measured usually in grams / kilogram of body weight at which 50 percent of subjects will die).

For example, cyanide is clearly a poison under the "LD50" definition - it only takes 3 milligrams per kilograms of body weight for 50 percent of subjects to die. Compare that to water, which would take a whopping 80,000 milligrams per kilogram of body weight for 50 percent of subjects to die.

From tests on mice, psilocybin (one of the active compounds in mushrooms) was estimated to have an LD50 of 280 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. A "strong" (subjective, I know) mushroom dosage is about 3.5 dried grams of P. Cubensis, which contains about 22 milligrams of psilocybin - far from the lethal dosage (at least, in mice - the LD50 for human beings may be much higher than that). So, based on the "LD50" definition, I'd hardly call a common mushroom trip a poisoning.

You can also read more about some of the somatic effects mushrooms have on humans from this 2002 study. Judging from those results, it looks like the most common somatic effects are accelerated heart rates, nausea, and increased reflexes (the effects on blood pressure seem inconclusive to me). I don't think that's enough to call psilocybin a poison, personally, as caffeine produces similar somatic effects, yet we generally don't consider caffeine to be a poison.

If I could make one last point about whether or not psilocybin is a poison, I'd end with this: any substance will make you feel sick (or even kill you) at a high enough dosage. Nutmeg tastes great in gingerbread cookies, but if you eat a couple tablespoons of the stuff you'll have a horrible night. Aspirin can save the life of someone having a heart attack, but downing 40 tablets of the stuff will kill ya. Different dosage == different effects, whether you're talking about psilocybin or water.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Happinessfeeling]
    #26807346 - 07/06/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Happinessfeeling said:
shrooms intoxicate you and the psychedelic high that you get from ingesting them is the poison circulating through your entire system, and coming down is the poison exiting your body.




Please provide evidence as this is completely contrary to all of the evidence available of how the actives in mushrooms work.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26807391 - 07/06/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
From tests on mice, psilocybin (one of the active compounds in mushrooms) was estimated to have an LD50 of 280 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. A "strong" (subjective, I know) mushroom dosage is about 3.5 dried grams of P. Cubensis, which contains about 22 milligrams of psilocybin - far from the lethal dosage (at least, in mice - the LD50 for human beings may be much higher than that). So, based on the "LD50" definition, I'd hardly call a common mushroom trip a poisoning.




You're not calculating this correctly.  The 50% lethal dose extrapolated to humans, at about 60 kg body weight, is obviously far higher than for rats, at about 500 g body weight. The LD50 is 280 mg x 60 kg = 17 g, 1.7 kg if dried and 1% psilocybin, or 485 times a 3.5 g dried dose. The difficulty of actually consuming this lethal dose is extreme - and it's only fatal half of the time anyway. :laugh2:

Wikipedia:
Quote:

Psilocybin can kill in extremely high doses. The LD50 of psilocybin is 280 mg/kg for rats, this is about 1.5 times that of caffeine. In normal psychedelic mushrooms, psilocybin makes up about 1% of their weight. Therefore, nearly 1.7 kilograms of dried mushrooms, or 17 kilograms of fresh mushrooms, would be required for a 60 kg person to reach the 280 mg/kg LD50 rate of rats.




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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26807453 - 07/06/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
You're not calculating this correctly.  The 50% lethal dose extrapolated to humans, at about 60 kg body weight, is obviously far higher than for rats, at about 500 g body weight. The LD50 is 280 mg x 60 kg = 17 g, 1.7 kg if dried and 1% psilocybin, or 485 times a 3.5 g dried dose. The difficulty of actually consuming this lethal dose is extreme - and it's only fatal half of the time anyway. :laugh2:




Ah yes, you're absolutely right. Thanks for correcting me on that. I was calculating as though the person consuming the mushrooms only weighed 1 kg, which is absurd. Indeed, the lethal dosage of mushrooms for humans is rather high.


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Re: What do mushrooms do to benefit you? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26807597 - 07/06/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
You're not calculating this correctly.  The 50% lethal dose extrapolated to humans, at about 60 kg body weight, is obviously far higher than for rats, at about 500 g body weight. The LD50 is 280 mg x 60 kg = 17 g, 1.7 kg if dried and 1% psilocybin, or 485 times a 3.5 g dried dose. The difficulty of actually consuming this lethal dose is extreme - and it's only fatal half of the time anyway. :laugh2:




Ah yes, you're absolutely right. Thanks for correcting me on that. I was calculating as though the person consuming the mushrooms only weighed 1 kg, which is absurd. Indeed, the lethal dosage of mushrooms for humans is rather high.




I'm probably not the first person to think this, but can you imagine the trip eating over a kilo of mushrooms? I'm not a huge guy but I can eat, and eating a kilo of anything will make you nauseaus, but holy crap if one of the veteran growers with trashcans full of dried fruits decided to make an extraction... You'd be 6 dimensions over to the left and 3 up before you hit the peak, you might die, but I think you'd meet God way before you actually did.

Disclaimer for the stupid: do not test the LD50 of any substance, ever. You'll probably fucking die.


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