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OfflineRock1084
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Woodlover Cardboard Spawn
    #26762063 - 06/21/20 01:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hi all,
I'm hoping to get some advice on where to go from here.
I currently have eight rolled up pieces of wet cardboard with p.subaeruginosa mycelium growing pretty strongly on them, though still not full colonised.


Cardboard Tek
~~For anyone reading who doesn't know about this, I'll quickly explain. You collect woodloving mycelium or mushroom tissue from the wild and you put it on a piece of damp corrugated cardboard, fold or roll it up so the tissue is in contact with as much of the cardboard as possible, and put cardboard in an open sandwich bag for a few weeks/months, keeping the cardboard misted but not wet until it fully colonises.~~

So as said, my cardboard is not fully colonised, but the growth of the mycelium appears to have slowed down. I've had them now for about 3 months.
I plan to use these to grow an outdoor container or bed somewhere.

To be clear, nothing is sterilised, I figured since it's a hardy outdoor woodloving species, and I plan to grow outdoors there's little need to sterilise, and so far so good.

Questions:
- What would cause the growth of mycelium to slow down? The only variable that has changed is temperature, I've been keeping them outside in the shed. When I first started them, it was mid-Autumn here (Melbourne, Australia) and average temps were 10-17c, now it's winter, and temps are between 2-14c.
- Does mycelium require fresh oxygen? I've currently got the sandwich bags open, should they be closed?
- Considering the cardboard is not fully colonised, would it be advisable to transfer to a jar of wooden dowels as an intermediary substrate, before transferring to a container or woodchips?


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Rock1084]
    #26762110 - 06/21/20 02:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I only used the method you are using once a few years ago (P cyanescense), so I will give you what I can.

Mycelium in general is very tolerant of stale Co2 concentrated air. But keeping it bagged (or semi-bagged) in plastic may have been too much? My experiment used your method but I layered the corrugated cardboard into a small plastic tub. After the cardboard was colonized I split the layers up (there were 4 or 5?) and put wood chips between each layer and then let that colonize in my basement during the winter. Early spring I dug a small bed , filled it with wood chips and spawn ,covered it with more cardboard, kept it wet ,and got some fruitbodies in the fall. Nothing to throw a party about but...

Anyway, messing around with the woodlovers has shown me that temperatures above 70 degrees F or 21C will stall mycelial growth. Maybe that is what is the prob? IDK. Hope you got something out of my rambles -it's late up here on this side of the equator.

Good luck mate, hope you figure it out so you can:rockon:


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OfflineRock1084
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26762154 - 06/21/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks bro.
Yeh the temp at the moment has dropped to well below 21C so I don't reckon it's that.
Did you wait until your cardboard was fully colonised before adding wood chips?

I should add, this is not my first time attempting a cardboard tek, I think I've been too egar in the past and put only semi colonised cardboard into a woodchip bed too soon. A learning moment. I'm keen to do a decent job this time round, which is why I'm curious about adding wooden towels as an intermediary substrate before the woodchip stage, but IDK I'm just trying stuff out.


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Rock1084]
    #26762170 - 06/21/20 03:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm... You are making me think. Like I mentioned above ^, I only did this once. BUT, I remember just growing what I had as in doubling then quadrupling . Let me see if I can find my notes on this. Thanks for keeping me up an hour later than I wanted too lol! I'm just joking friend. I keep notes on all this crap, where the hell...


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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Rock1084]
    #26762171 - 06/21/20 03:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rock1084 said:


Questions:
- What would cause the growth of mycelium to slow down? The only variable that has changed is temperature, I've been keeping them outside in the shed. When I first started them, it was mid-Autumn here (Melbourne, Australia) and average temps were 10-17c, now it's winter, and temps are between 2-14c.

Yes temps have a profound affect on growth rate. I've actually compared growth on agar at various temps. At 5c P.subaeruginosa mycelium will slow to a crawl. At 10c growth rate doubles and again at 25c. While 25c provides and optimal growth rate it's only really feasible in sterile conditions as a lot of competitor fungi/bacteria also thrive at higher temps. I suspect in nature spring and autumn are periods when mycelium grows best.


- Does mycelium require fresh oxygen? I've currently got the sandwich bags open, should they be closed?

Yes it does but an open bag provides plenty of FAE. I've colonized and seen subs fruit even in jars with lids


- Considering the cardboard is not fully colonised, would it be advisable to transfer to a jar of wooden dowels as an intermediary substrate, before transferring to a container or woodchips?

You can expand your mycelium to another container at any time. There's no need to transfer to an intermediary substrate. Just make sure to use unsterile and aged wood chips. I've used Brunnings pine mulch with great success. Just soak overnight,drain well. Make sure containers have enough drainage holes.







Edited by bobwastaken (06/21/20 03:31 AM)


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26762204 - 06/21/20 04:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Bobwas added some interesting stuff.
Back home, my notes say that I added wood pellets to the semi- colonized cardboard. In the US they sell hardwood pellets that feed into your wood swtove but I'm sure you already know this, -just trying to be clear for anybody else who may read this.
I remember boiling the pellets and then sandwiching  it between the semi-colonized cardboard. I then eventually worked in mesquite and hickory chips I had left over from summer grilling picnics. This whole thing took place in the space of a beer cooler. I started the cardboard grow in late October, and kept feeding the experiment all through the spring.  Which was 5 or so months.

I dumped all this 'spawn' into a shallow bed on the North side of my house in April and it fruited in the fall after some cold weather.

I know this does not directly answer your stalled cardboard question but maybe it will help fill in some of the missing pieces to the puzzle.
Good luck friend!


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OfflineBiscuits
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26762275 - 06/21/20 05:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Can confirm with bobwastaken. I've tried growing the subaeruginosa outside this winter, as well as inside at 25 C (both on brown mulch woodchips). The mycelium inside at the higher temperature was much, much faster growing.


Edited by Biscuits (06/21/20 05:13 AM)


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Biscuits]
    #26762334 - 06/21/20 06:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting. 25 c = 75 f. Seems high to me, but then again maybe totally relevant to  the species we are talking about. Thanks for the input -something for me to think about.


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OfflineRock1084
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26763503 - 06/21/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks guys.
I have moved my cardboard bags inside, we usually keep the heating around 20C during the day, so hopefully this helps it along. I'll see how it goes.
I may try to colonise some wood dowels just to get a really big mass of mycelium going before transferring it to a woodchip bed.
I've got a 'self watering' container from Bunnings that I'll fill with pine mulch or hardwood mulch, probably some time in Spring.

Quote:

You can expand your mycelium to another container at any time. There's no need to transfer to an intermediary substrate. Just make sure to use unsterile and aged wood chips. I've used Brunnings pine mulch with great success. Just soak overnight,drain well. Make sure containers have enough drainage holes.



Bobwastaken...can you confirm, woodchips should not be sterilised?

Also Bob, what is in those jars you've got there?


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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Rock1084]
    #26764780 - 06/21/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yes do not sterilize the woodchips. If you source woodchips from nature I recommend to pasteurize or ferment them since there will be insects and competitor mushroom mycelium present. The only time I sterilize chips is when building spawn in a sterile environment. The fruiting jar comprise of grains spawned to sterilized pine chips. Once fully colonized I removed the lid and cased with untreated pine needle mulch.


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OfflineRock1084
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: bobwastaken]
    #26769604 - 06/22/20 12:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bobwastaken said:
Yes do not sterilize the woodchips. If you source woodchips from nature I recommend to pasteurize or ferment them since there will be insects and competitor mushroom mycelium present. The only time I sterilize chips is when building spawn in a sterile environment. The fruiting jar comprise of grains spawned to sterilized pine chips. Once fully colonized I removed the lid and cased with untreated pine needle mulch.



Cool, that was my intuition about woodchips also, and my main motivation for going for an outdoor woodlover species as I just don't feel confident with my current resources to go down the sterile environment route.

I believe what we are talking about here is "secondary spawn", or spawn that is from nature and shouldn't require sterilisation.

What do you mean by pasteurization/fermentation? How does one do that?


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OfflineRock1084
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Re: Woodlover Cardboard Spawn [Re: Rock1084]
    #26836594 - 07/21/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Here's an update, and an few questions.

Since moving my cardboard spawn indoors, mycelium growth sped up, but has stalled once again.
Here's what i did:
- Kept cardboard in plastic bags with a small opening
- Misted daily (they seemed to dry out very quickly indoors, so it was very hard to keep the moisture level right, and I may have over watered them occasionally)
- I've also got some woodchips and some dowels fermenting outside. I'll keep them until I'm ready to expand my spawn.

Questions:
- There seems to be a layer of slime on some of the cardboard pieces, this doesn't seem to be killing off the mycelium, but it's also not exactly growing either. Is this a contamination? Should I get rid of it?
- I'm wondering if mycelium prefers fresh cardboard? Should I try to spawn to some new stuff to see if that kicks things off again?


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