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Offlinepootis
Escaped Lunatic

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers
    #26759735 - 06/20/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So person A that my friend's dog had provided some mushrooms (cubes) to apparently freaked out in a violent way and attacked person B and as a result person A was arrested. Person B called me today to ask what had been provided.

My friend's dog has provided mushrooms to many people before and nothing like this has ever happened. The major difference with these mushrooms though was that they were covered in spores from not having been picked in time - some of the caps were absolutely jet black from spores but otherwise normal cubensis mushrooms. I was informed that the person A has had addiction/drug issues in the past but I don't know specifics. I know that logically it had to have been from either another drug combination (person B mentioned something nonspecific about weed) or some kind of psychosis/mental illness, because I've never heard anything about spores themselves being hazardous unless they're inhaled.

The remainder of the batch with the spore-drenched caps will likely have to be destroyed now to be abundantly cautious.

Really concerning because as we know Psilocybes have a deserved reputation for fostering peace, good will and mind expansion. Not violence and psychosis. So I'm grasping for an explanation and I guess looking for some reassurance. Thanks for reading.


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Offlinejarjarbic
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Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 45
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
    #26759743 - 06/20/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet

its not the mushrooms fault
unless they are the chile strain

stay the fuck away from CHILE strain


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OfflineInfraredRick
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Registered: 10/03/18
Posts: 447
Loc: Midwest, USA
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
    #26759757 - 06/20/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Agreed, A was already challenged with a head full of snakes. All the self-loathing that comes with addiction, taking it out on somebody else.


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Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]


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Invisiblepablokabute
Hari ng Amag
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Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 5,173
Loc: rural ghetto
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26759771 - 06/20/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

These sort of things I read something about in here every now and then..

It could be one of many things but most probably the tripper's "set"..  and yes, psychedelics are known to trigger or uncover mental/psychological disorders..


--------------------

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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis] * 2
    #26759775 - 06/20/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pootis said:
The remainder of the batch with the spore-drenched caps will likely have to be destroyed now to be abundantly cautious.





Why? This isn't The Last of Us. Spores won't cause some sort of "aggression". In fact, spores won't do anything (unless a person is allergic).

Mushrooms can bring out traumas and repressed emotions. This can be a recipe for disaster if someone isn't prepared for that fact and/or they have violent tendencies. It can also trigger psychotic episodes, especially in those with severe mental illness or, as stated above, severe unresolved traumas. (And especially when mixed with other substances which you said was a possibility here). 

Quote:

pootis said:
Psilocybes have a deserved reputation for fostering peace, good will and mind expansion. Not violence and psychosis.





Well they can cause both, and everything in between. These are deeply powerful substances that unlock your mind (and while there is a lot of wonder in the mind, there is also a lot of darkness).

In summation:

Don't destroy perfectly good mushrooms that aren't at fault. If they were, both people who had consumed them would go into a zombie frenzy.

I've eaten plenty of spore covered mushroom with no issues.

Mushrooms are powerful substances that cause everything from transcendental bliss to violent despair.


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OfflineDnDRnD
Hobby cultivator


Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
    #26759786 - 06/20/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jarjarbic said:
maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet

its not the mushrooms fault
unless they are the chile strain

stay the fuck away from CHILE strain




It would be Chile variety, a single PF cake contains literally thousands if not tens of thousands of strains within it.

A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.


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OfflineMrToon
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Registered: 12/03/19
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26759793 - 06/20/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Seriously, don't destroy the shroomies. The dude flipped. It happens. Hopefully the guy will learn something from all that. Take care and be careful!


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Offlinepootis
Escaped Lunatic

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26759806 - 06/20/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jarjarbic said:
maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet

its not the mushrooms fault
unless they are the chile strain

stay the fuck away from CHILE strain




Never heard of this Chile strain... do tell


Quote:

Socrateshroom said:

Why? This isn't The Last of Us. Spores won't cause some sort of "aggression". In fact, spores won't do anything (unless a person is allergic).

Mushrooms can bring out traumas and repressed emotions. This can be a recipe for disaster if someone isn't prepared for that fact and/or they have violent tendencies. It can also trigger psychotic episodes, especially in those with severe mental illness or, as stated above, severe unresolved traumas. (And especially when mixed with other substances which you said was a possibility here). 





Yeah, I can see you're correct. I'm just really taken aback because this guy I had thought was pretty savvy with this stuff - but again I don't know him that well and he clearly has had a troubled past.

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
Don't destroy perfectly good mushrooms that aren't at fault. If they were, both people who had consumed them would go into a zombie frenzy.





Only person A had consumed them. He's actually the first to have gotten any of the REALLY spore covered ones which is why I had the concern in the first place. I even pointed it out to him the reason for the black on the caps and that they're only harmful if inhaled (breathing mushroom spores can fuck your lungs up)
In any case obviously the next thing to do will be for me to sample them...

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
I've eaten plenty of spore covered mushroom with no issues.





Thanks. That's exactly the reassurance I was looking for.

Unfortunately I think my friend's dog will have to pause growing for now as an insurance policy against the potential of Johnny Law coming a-knocking. I think it's unlikely but I don't have all the facts yet and need to put my mind at ease.


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Offlinejarjarbic
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 45
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26759807 - 06/20/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DnDRnD said:
A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.





na man if it comes from CHILE

have a bible ready


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OfflineDnDRnD
Hobby cultivator


Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic] * 2
    #26759849 - 06/20/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jarjarbic said:
Quote:

DnDRnD said:
A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.





na man if it comes from CHILE

have a bible ready




:rofl2: not how it works but okay :facepalm:


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OfflineTweeq
Tweeq of Nature
Male

Registered: 06/07/18
Posts: 2,047
Loc: Netherlands Flag
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26759890 - 06/20/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Wrong mindset, sounds like he wasnt ready or prepared at all. The guy flipped. Happens to ppl. Your friend's dog might consider putting more distance between himself and the end user tho for these things just happen. Some ppl just fail to inform themselves properly b4 trying psychedelics.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
Male


Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 6 days, 13 hours
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Tweeq]
    #26759917 - 06/20/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

He probably got scared of something, felt threatened and resorted to violence. I think this is what happened because I felt this violent tendency in myself in one trip on the comeup whilst being alone. I was fighting with myself kind of in my head. I was in my bed and raised my fists ready to defend. Psychotic behavior caused by something in the mind I soon realised. This is probably why people on meth and speed can get violent and aggressive.


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Offlinepootis
Escaped Lunatic

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 14
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: InnerWisdom] * 1
    #26760315 - 06/20/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tweeq said:
Wrong mindset, sounds like he wasnt ready or prepared at all. The guy flipped. Happens to ppl. Your friend's dog might consider putting more distance between himself and the end user tho for these things just happen. Some ppl just fail to inform themselves properly b4 trying psychedelics.




It's not like A was totally psychedelic naive, what I think happened is A eyeballed the dose and got more than bargained for. Add on the fact that A is a recovering addict was apparently using various substances in the weeks/months prior and lying to B about it.... recipe for disaster

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
He probably got scared of something, felt threatened and resorted to violence. I think this is what happened because I felt this violent tendency in myself in one trip on the comeup whilst being alone. I was fighting with myself kind of in my head. I was in my bed and raised my fists ready to defend. Psychotic behavior caused by something in the mind I soon realised. This is probably why people on meth and speed can get violent and aggressive.





I got some more details from person B. This makes more sense when I disclose that A and B are spouses. It apparently wasn't fists flying or anything like that but rather aggressive amorous behavior that fell short of sexual assault. Still disturbing to say the least but that makes a bit more sense. From the description I got A fell into something of a psychotic break and just wouldn't let go of B, B lost control of the situation and had to ring the boys in blue.....


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OfflineLosTresOjos
Humano
I'm a teapot
Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
    #26760660 - 06/20/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Why so much worry about this dogs past?

And why even involve dog in this situation? 

Jesus that sounds like unnecessary bad times.


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Offlinejarjarbic
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 45
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26762390 - 06/21/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

the mushrooms tell you if your spouse cheated on you

so maybe he learned the truth?


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,593
Loc: Utah
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
    #26764842 - 06/21/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.

There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.

That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.


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OfflineTweeq
Tweeq of Nature
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Registered: 06/07/18
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: nooneman]
    #26769592 - 06/21/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.

There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.

That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.




Any links, articles? Never heard of 1 pct getting violent and even killing ppl. Examples?


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,593
Loc: Utah
Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Tweeq]
    #26770511 - 06/22/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Asante has a good list, I recommend asking him, and if you search the news forum you can find a few.

The one that springs to mind immediately is: there was a group of people who were tripping together, and one guy suddenly started breaking things. When they attempted to stop him, he began trying to hit them. He was totally unresponsive and non-communicative. When they tried to restrain him, he broke a mirror and began cutting into his arms with the broken glass. After they tried to stop him from doing this, he then tried to attack and cut them with the broken glass from the mirror. He chased them, they locked themselves in an upstairs bedroom and called the police. He tried to break down the door to the room they were locked in. He fought with the police when they arrived. The group found the house had been covered in blood from the struggle when they were finally able to leave.

Then there's the amateur wrestler who killed and ate someone, you can read about that one in the news forum. There's also a case I remember about a guy killing his roommate with a baseball bat. You should also be able to find that on the news forum.

There have been a lot of stories about this kind of thing on here over the years. 1% was just my rough guess, there's no hard data and no one really knows how rare it is, except that it seems to be rare given that most people never encounter it despite many tripping hundreds of times. That's why we need more research on the subject. This topic gets brought up every once in a while. It is pretty rare though. A lot of the time it results in simple violence (not quite as extreme as the stories I've described here) like someone trying to hit people or break things and needing to be restrained or kicked out, etc.

Some other interesting stuff about this that I've noticed over the years: when it happens, the person involved usually doesn't, can't, or won't communicate. Afterwards, they often claim to have either blacked out, or that they were being attacked. Sometimes they say that they believed they were dead. It's unclear if any of these excuses is actually true. It seems to affect certain people in particular, it's often identified within the first couple of times of someone trying psychedelics. The people that have a problem with it often (though not always) display aggression or violence in some form every time they trip. Sometimes the other people involved talk about "warning signs" in earlier trips, like the person becoming aggressive or trying to hit them in an earlier trip before totally losing it in a future trip. However, in other cases the person displayed no warning signs beforehand and just lost it. But this tendency towards violence is almost always identified early, within the first few times a person trips.

But that's just all just anecdotal stuff I've noticed from the stories over the years. We really don't know much at all. Serious scientific research into the subject is needed.

One last story: there was a guy whose dad tortured, mutilated, and killed their family cat under the influence of LSD. Afterwards, he told his son that he was meant to be a serial killer, and that all his life he'd wanted to be a serial killer. That's LSD and not mushrooms, but it shows some of the variability of the whole thing. He was communicative and displayed purposeful aggression rather than incommunicative purposeless aggression. It was also his first trip, which does go along with the behavior being displayed/identified early.


Edited by nooneman (06/22/20 02:44 AM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Registered: 09/05/18
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: nooneman]
    #26773528 - 06/22/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting stuff. In the majority of these cases, the perpetrator is aged 19-21 at the time of the crime.

I find this very interesting. Perhaps it’s schizophrenia or other latent mental issues being triggered? I know evidence points to onset of such illnesses being in the early 20s.

I don’t think it’s the mushrooms themselves as an inherent trigger as violence and murder are more common after alcohol consumption. But I do think mushrooms and other psychedelics are uniquely positioned to trigger latent mental disorders due to their mind bending nature. However, even when such a thing happens, most instances are nonviolent and are just described as “bad trips”.


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OfflineTweeq
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Registered: 06/07/18
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26773568 - 06/22/20 05:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

@Nooneman: wauw, I didn't know about this. Pretty heavy stuff too. I'll dive in and do some searching. This is really quite interesting.


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