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OfflineBozoOnBus
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Tripping with bipolar?
    #26759552 - 06/20/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm 47 and considering taking my first trip. My life has felt really flat and stale for about 15 years. I've been in therapy. I've done three years of meditation. I still don't have a good sense of who I am or what the point of anything really is. I think doing some psychedlics might help with that.

The one big thing holding me back from a trip is my bipolar disorder. I know that psychedelics act on serotonin receptors and every time I'm on a SSRI, I get manic/mixed episodes.

Here are some reasons I think I might be ok:

  • When I was unmedicated, I was mostly depressed with rare barely-detectable hypomanias. I don't have a natural tendency for mania.
  • The last time my p-doc put me on an anti-depressant, I spiraled into a mania after about two weeks; but it wasn't psychosis or delusions of grandeur. I was just doing jumping jacks at 4 in the morning to burn off the energy. I knew exactly what was happening and didn't like it one bit. Maybe a manic episode from tripping would be similar (uncomfortable but ok).
  • The three closest experiences I've had to psychosis have all been due to depression, not mania.
  • In order to get off my last SSRI-induced mania, my doc put on Lithium, which I'm still on.


Thoughts/experiences/risk assessments?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: BozoOnBus]
    #26759644 - 06/20/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

well, I think you can be ok but you have to accept that all hypochondria is just a distraction from the more interesting things that are constantly going on.

parents afflict their kids with worries, but you need not feed that direction, just know it has been part of what got you here. be your own parent, a safe setting, and honest mindset is your best bet.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26759691 - 06/20/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So there is quite the difference between SSRIs and psychs although they act on some of the same receptors. First off, SSRIs are taken continuously, mushrooms for instance last 6hrs, so if things go south afterwards, the mushrooms are already out of your system pretty much and you just need to deal with the consequences. Now typically people experience an elated mood for 1-3 days after tripping and it can continue less noticeably to 1-2 weeks. From my experience how mushrooms feel like upwards of 1.5g dry: I don't know if you can get mania triggered by that euphoria and during or after, but there are many of the same positive effects of hypomania.
Go figure. Start with 1g dried or 1.5 max. IF you have meds to counteract the mania states then you shouldn't even have anything to worry about. :sunny:


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OfflineInfraredRick
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26759740 - 06/20/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have chronic major depression and have been on various psychotropic meds for 30 years. It usually takes a long time, years in many cases, to land on effective meds. Because I'm on a SSRI I have to take 2x dose of rooms to reach where I want to be, compared to folks not on a SSRI. (These days I eat only Penis Envy because it's so much more potent than other cubes.)

Mushrooms have not been and won't ever be a solution to my mental illness. They are useful as a tool to reground my mind, reminding me of what's really important in this existance. I'm fortunate to be retired with no financial worries and I live in a rural, lake house. No longer have to run the rat race like most folks. So, I have a low stress deal going and not at risk of emotionally tanking in a way that risks/damages important personal or professional aspects of my life.

My point is, be careful. Don't expect psychedelics to resolve your mental health challenges. Especially if you are genetically predisposed to mental illness. A big dose of mushrooms could help you or flip opposite resulting in psychosis including suicidal ideation. A very bad trip can result in PTSD. This is doubly true if you already live a stressful life due to your family or your job or if you just watch the news these days. Start slow and light, see how it goes. Don't give up on trying different psychotropic meds until you land on what works well, with minimal side effects.

Hang in there, you are not alone in your struggles, you are loved even by people you've never met.


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Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26759880 - 06/20/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Be aware as well that lithium can interact with psychedelics and potentiate them. Start small, if you're going to go down this path.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineBozoOnBus
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26759886 - 06/20/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not looking for a cure for bipolar. I know I'll always have it. When it's managed, it's really not a big deal at all.

What's bugging me is that I feel like a shallow thing going through the motions of being a person by doing the things society expects me to do, but I have no idea what I want or who I am. That's what I'm hoping to learn about in a trip. Do you think it would be helpful in that way?


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: BozoOnBus]
    #26759895 - 06/20/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yes. Just don't expect to get any direct answers and let the experience unfold.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: BozoOnBus]
    #26759937 - 06/20/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BozoOnBus said:
...
What's bugging me is that I feel like a shallow thing going through the motions of being a person by doing the things society expects me to do, but I have no idea what I want or who I am.
...



what you describe is not different from what we all may feel from time to time.
sometimes more acutely than others.
For me what helps is understanding society in terms of
self
family
local history
social migrations
and anthropology.

no animal or human is completely separate from it's environment - finding the way things are connected, will make you feel more connected, and if your mushroom or lsd experience includes appreciation of how things fit together in nature you will be working directly with this whole acute pointless moodiness.


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OfflineInfraredRick
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26759940 - 06/20/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Another yes. Trips always offer lessons and sometimes the lessons feel harsh. Maybe you'll learn you need to make major changes in your life. New home, dif job, back to school, new friends, new behaviors, etc. New goals worthy of discipline and hard work. Mushrooms can surely be the vehicle to an epiphany.


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Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]


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OfflineCosmicpolitan
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26762279 - 06/21/20 05:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A friend of mine with bipolar I took LSD which seemed to be a cause her a month long manic episode leading to hospitalisation. I imagine similar things can happen with psilocybin. I have heard the afterglow effect being described as a hypomanic state (James Kent describes it as such) and I think this is actually a fair description of it. I would be careful with dosage and start small if you decide to use them.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: BozoOnBus]
    #26762308 - 06/21/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I shouldn’t really speak on behalf of other people, but I do know that PrimalSoup has bipolar, yet has taken over a thousand trips.


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“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Tripping with bipolar? [Re: BozoOnBus]
    #26762411 - 06/21/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Speaking of the devil :laugh2:

OP, I second the advice about caution - you need to discover what tripping does for your mental state gradually.

But personally, though I've never sought treatment, I have described my symptoms to various doctors and got confirmation of type 2 BD.  So discovering years ago that mushrooms would reset my extremely regular cycle to the mania phase was an overwhelming relief, as the depressive phase was always quite obvious and intractable.  So for that I would trip about every two weeks as the full cycle lasts about a month and you can set your clock by it.

I also found, by accident really, that a couple of omega-3 fish oil supplements a day even me out.  I started taking them after a vet recommended it for our elderly cat, and the list of things they could address for him sounded like a worthwhile addition for me. So maybe try that too.

But there are quite a few people here who self-medicate for depression (very few self-medicate for mania :wink: ) and whatever it is it does it works.  I also noticed a lessening of severity of the cycle over time with continued use of mushrooms, going from feeling suicidal at times to being able to handle the lows without them.  But the mechanism for that is probably harder to study.


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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