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pootis
Escaped Lunatic

Registered: 07/23/18
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Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers
#26759735 - 06/20/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So person A that my friend's dog had provided some mushrooms (cubes) to apparently freaked out in a violent way and attacked person B and as a result person A was arrested. Person B called me today to ask what had been provided.
My friend's dog has provided mushrooms to many people before and nothing like this has ever happened. The major difference with these mushrooms though was that they were covered in spores from not having been picked in time - some of the caps were absolutely jet black from spores but otherwise normal cubensis mushrooms. I was informed that the person A has had addiction/drug issues in the past but I don't know specifics. I know that logically it had to have been from either another drug combination (person B mentioned something nonspecific about weed) or some kind of psychosis/mental illness, because I've never heard anything about spores themselves being hazardous unless they're inhaled.
The remainder of the batch with the spore-drenched caps will likely have to be destroyed now to be abundantly cautious.
Really concerning because as we know Psilocybes have a deserved reputation for fostering peace, good will and mind expansion. Not violence and psychosis. So I'm grasping for an explanation and I guess looking for some reassurance. Thanks for reading.
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jarjarbic
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
#26759743 - 06/20/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet
its not the mushrooms fault unless they are the chile strain
stay the fuck away from CHILE strain
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InfraredRick
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
#26759757 - 06/20/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Agreed, A was already challenged with a head full of snakes. All the self-loathing that comes with addiction, taking it out on somebody else.
-------------------- Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]
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pablokabute
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: InfraredRick]
#26759771 - 06/20/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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These sort of things I read something about in here every now and then..
It could be one of many things but most probably the tripper's "set".. and yes, psychedelics are known to trigger or uncover mental/psychological disorders..
--------------------
Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis] 2
#26759775 - 06/20/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
pootis said: The remainder of the batch with the spore-drenched caps will likely have to be destroyed now to be abundantly cautious.
Why? This isn't The Last of Us. Spores won't cause some sort of "aggression". In fact, spores won't do anything (unless a person is allergic).
Mushrooms can bring out traumas and repressed emotions. This can be a recipe for disaster if someone isn't prepared for that fact and/or they have violent tendencies. It can also trigger psychotic episodes, especially in those with severe mental illness or, as stated above, severe unresolved traumas. (And especially when mixed with other substances which you said was a possibility here).
Quote:
pootis said: Psilocybes have a deserved reputation for fostering peace, good will and mind expansion. Not violence and psychosis.
Well they can cause both, and everything in between. These are deeply powerful substances that unlock your mind (and while there is a lot of wonder in the mind, there is also a lot of darkness).
In summation:
Don't destroy perfectly good mushrooms that aren't at fault. If they were, both people who had consumed them would go into a zombie frenzy.
I've eaten plenty of spore covered mushroom with no issues.
Mushrooms are powerful substances that cause everything from transcendental bliss to violent despair.
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DnDRnD
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
#26759786 - 06/20/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jarjarbic said: maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet
its not the mushrooms fault unless they are the chile strain
stay the fuck away from CHILE strain
It would be Chile variety, a single PF cake contains literally thousands if not tens of thousands of strains within it.
A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.
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MrToon


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26759793 - 06/20/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seriously, don't destroy the shroomies. The dude flipped. It happens. Hopefully the guy will learn something from all that. Take care and be careful!
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pootis
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26759806 - 06/20/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jarjarbic said: maybe hes got some skeletons in the closet
its not the mushrooms fault unless they are the chile strain
stay the fuck away from CHILE strain
Never heard of this Chile strain... do tell
Quote:
Socrateshroom said:
Why? This isn't The Last of Us. Spores won't cause some sort of "aggression". In fact, spores won't do anything (unless a person is allergic).
Mushrooms can bring out traumas and repressed emotions. This can be a recipe for disaster if someone isn't prepared for that fact and/or they have violent tendencies. It can also trigger psychotic episodes, especially in those with severe mental illness or, as stated above, severe unresolved traumas. (And especially when mixed with other substances which you said was a possibility here).
Yeah, I can see you're correct. I'm just really taken aback because this guy I had thought was pretty savvy with this stuff - but again I don't know him that well and he clearly has had a troubled past.
Quote:
Socrateshroom said: Don't destroy perfectly good mushrooms that aren't at fault. If they were, both people who had consumed them would go into a zombie frenzy.
Only person A had consumed them. He's actually the first to have gotten any of the REALLY spore covered ones which is why I had the concern in the first place. I even pointed it out to him the reason for the black on the caps and that they're only harmful if inhaled (breathing mushroom spores can fuck your lungs up) In any case obviously the next thing to do will be for me to sample them...
Quote:
Socrateshroom said: I've eaten plenty of spore covered mushroom with no issues.
Thanks. That's exactly the reassurance I was looking for.
Unfortunately I think my friend's dog will have to pause growing for now as an insurance policy against the potential of Johnny Law coming a-knocking. I think it's unlikely but I don't have all the facts yet and need to put my mind at ease.
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jarjarbic
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: DnDRnD]
#26759807 - 06/20/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DnDRnD said: A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.
na man if it comes from CHILE
have a bible ready
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DnDRnD
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic] 2
#26759849 - 06/20/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jarjarbic said:
Quote:
DnDRnD said: A cube is a cube and variety is no indication of strength or whether they're good or not. PE varieties are the exception because they tend to have a higher psilocybin content but that's it.
na man if it comes from CHILE
have a bible ready
not how it works but okay
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: DnDRnD]
#26759890 - 06/20/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wrong mindset, sounds like he wasnt ready or prepared at all. The guy flipped. Happens to ppl. Your friend's dog might consider putting more distance between himself and the end user tho for these things just happen. Some ppl just fail to inform themselves properly b4 trying psychedelics.
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InnerWisdom



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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Tweeq]
#26759917 - 06/20/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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He probably got scared of something, felt threatened and resorted to violence. I think this is what happened because I felt this violent tendency in myself in one trip on the comeup whilst being alone. I was fighting with myself kind of in my head. I was in my bed and raised my fists ready to defend. Psychotic behavior caused by something in the mind I soon realised. This is probably why people on meth and speed can get violent and aggressive.
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pootis
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: InnerWisdom] 1
#26760315 - 06/20/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tweeq said: Wrong mindset, sounds like he wasnt ready or prepared at all. The guy flipped. Happens to ppl. Your friend's dog might consider putting more distance between himself and the end user tho for these things just happen. Some ppl just fail to inform themselves properly b4 trying psychedelics.
It's not like A was totally psychedelic naive, what I think happened is A eyeballed the dose and got more than bargained for. Add on the fact that A is a recovering addict was apparently using various substances in the weeks/months prior and lying to B about it.... recipe for disaster
Quote:
InnerWisdom said: He probably got scared of something, felt threatened and resorted to violence. I think this is what happened because I felt this violent tendency in myself in one trip on the comeup whilst being alone. I was fighting with myself kind of in my head. I was in my bed and raised my fists ready to defend. Psychotic behavior caused by something in the mind I soon realised. This is probably why people on meth and speed can get violent and aggressive.
I got some more details from person B. This makes more sense when I disclose that A and B are spouses. It apparently wasn't fists flying or anything like that but rather aggressive amorous behavior that fell short of sexual assault. Still disturbing to say the least but that makes a bit more sense. From the description I got A fell into something of a psychotic break and just wouldn't let go of B, B lost control of the situation and had to ring the boys in blue.....
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
#26760660 - 06/20/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why so much worry about this dogs past?
And why even involve dog in this situation?
Jesus that sounds like unnecessary bad times.
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jarjarbic
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26762390 - 06/21/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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the mushrooms tell you if your spouse cheated on you
so maybe he learned the truth?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
#26764842 - 06/21/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.
There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.
That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.
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Tweeq
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: nooneman]
#26769592 - 06/21/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.
There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.
That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.
Any links, articles? Never heard of 1 pct getting violent and even killing ppl. Examples?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Tweeq]
#26770511 - 06/22/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Asante has a good list, I recommend asking him, and if you search the news forum you can find a few.
The one that springs to mind immediately is: there was a group of people who were tripping together, and one guy suddenly started breaking things. When they attempted to stop him, he began trying to hit them. He was totally unresponsive and non-communicative. When they tried to restrain him, he broke a mirror and began cutting into his arms with the broken glass. After they tried to stop him from doing this, he then tried to attack and cut them with the broken glass from the mirror. He chased them, they locked themselves in an upstairs bedroom and called the police. He tried to break down the door to the room they were locked in. He fought with the police when they arrived. The group found the house had been covered in blood from the struggle when they were finally able to leave.
Then there's the amateur wrestler who killed and ate someone, you can read about that one in the news forum. There's also a case I remember about a guy killing his roommate with a baseball bat. You should also be able to find that on the news forum.
There have been a lot of stories about this kind of thing on here over the years. 1% was just my rough guess, there's no hard data and no one really knows how rare it is, except that it seems to be rare given that most people never encounter it despite many tripping hundreds of times. That's why we need more research on the subject. This topic gets brought up every once in a while. It is pretty rare though. A lot of the time it results in simple violence (not quite as extreme as the stories I've described here) like someone trying to hit people or break things and needing to be restrained or kicked out, etc.
Some other interesting stuff about this that I've noticed over the years: when it happens, the person involved usually doesn't, can't, or won't communicate. Afterwards, they often claim to have either blacked out, or that they were being attacked. Sometimes they say that they believed they were dead. It's unclear if any of these excuses is actually true. It seems to affect certain people in particular, it's often identified within the first couple of times of someone trying psychedelics. The people that have a problem with it often (though not always) display aggression or violence in some form every time they trip. Sometimes the other people involved talk about "warning signs" in earlier trips, like the person becoming aggressive or trying to hit them in an earlier trip before totally losing it in a future trip. However, in other cases the person displayed no warning signs beforehand and just lost it. But this tendency towards violence is almost always identified early, within the first few times a person trips.
But that's just all just anecdotal stuff I've noticed from the stories over the years. We really don't know much at all. Serious scientific research into the subject is needed.
One last story: there was a guy whose dad tortured, mutilated, and killed their family cat under the influence of LSD. Afterwards, he told his son that he was meant to be a serial killer, and that all his life he'd wanted to be a serial killer. That's LSD and not mushrooms, but it shows some of the variability of the whole thing. He was communicative and displayed purposeful aggression rather than incommunicative purposeless aggression. It was also his first trip, which does go along with the behavior being displayed/identified early.
Edited by nooneman (06/22/20 02:44 AM)
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: nooneman]
#26773528 - 06/22/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting stuff. In the majority of these cases, the perpetrator is aged 19-21 at the time of the crime.
I find this very interesting. Perhaps it’s schizophrenia or other latent mental issues being triggered? I know evidence points to onset of such illnesses being in the early 20s.
I don’t think it’s the mushrooms themselves as an inherent trigger as violence and murder are more common after alcohol consumption. But I do think mushrooms and other psychedelics are uniquely positioned to trigger latent mental disorders due to their mind bending nature. However, even when such a thing happens, most instances are nonviolent and are just described as “bad trips”.
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Tweeq
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26773568 - 06/22/20 05:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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@Nooneman: wauw, I didn't know about this. Pretty heavy stuff too. I'll dive in and do some searching. This is really quite interesting.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Tweeq]
#26773728 - 06/22/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Had a friend who thought he had died and that he was being tested, like the old final judgement myths from the Egyptians & Christians. He thought I was St. Peter guarding the gates and would determine if he goes to heaven or descends to hell. He was having a psychotic experience - and could have gone and done anything and not realized the consequences as real. I could have told him to kill his father to prove his loyalty and I guarantee he would have done it. It was that bad. I was tripping too so I had to handle the situation with the utmost care - luckily my friend loosing his mind completely sobered me up for the most part.
Thank goodness I brought 2 emergency lorazepam pills in case some one had a seizure, they worked for this type of situation too. He only took them after much hesitancy due to believing it was part of the test and after many loops in the same thought pattern - Stuck In a death/hell loop, what could be worse? Later He’s recognized he shouldn't he doing psychedelics after having done psychedelics one more time after that that event. Something about being predisposed to something because of his family history. He’s alright today & well respected chemist working for the big bois.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26773811 - 06/22/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Glad your friend realized it before he did something regrettable. Psychedelics aren’t for everyone, but that isn’t inherent to them. All substances can cause certain individuals issues. For example coffee and alcohol (separately obviously) aren’t for me. Alcohol brings out the absolute worst in me and thus I abstain. And even though I have an on/off relationship with coffee, I maintain the “off” part most of the time because it just makes me jittery.
Plus, for those who are predisposed to psychosis and the like, extreme experiences, even while sober, can trigger episodes. So I would maintain that it isn’t mushrooms that cause these issues but the fact that they can cause extreme experiences which trigger such episodes. I’ve seen people get psychotic on alcohol because they drank too much and the intensity of the experience triggered an event.
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polaritymind
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26773919 - 06/22/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeaaaaah, the spores have nothing to do with this. Thats just tripping for you, everytime is different. Esp. if you only provide the substance and dont lead the ceremony, you cant really control what intentions people go into the experience with, and what people they are. It can be a self-protecting mechanism if your customers are all in a "hippie" circle, and can educate and integrate with each other, but very often with selling the temptation is there to expand to other circles, beginners, and then it is your responsibility as provider to educate them as well as possible and when you see that they arent listening and are approaching it with the wrong mindset also be able to say no. But still, you cant do much from afar like that. Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: polaritymind]
#26774082 - 06/22/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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No one has any responsibility to anyone else. When you buy a car does anybody remind the buyer of the potential death or injury? No they remind you of how safe it is.
The seller leading a ceremony? Fuck that.
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EvolvingVRNode

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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26774184 - 06/22/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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A seller leading a ceremony is a nice idea, but it's not gonna happen like that, especially if it's not friends they're selling to. Sellers should always give a serious warning/heads up, make sure they know what they're getting into and give solid advice on dose, they just can't babysit their buyers it's not realistic, someone big enough to be buying this stuff should be responsible enough to know the possibilities and be prepared, it's kinda on them. imo
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EvolvingVRNode

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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
#26774207 - 06/22/20 12:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jarjarbic said: the mushrooms tell you if your spouse cheated on you
so maybe he learned the truth?
So he borderline sexually assaulted her cos maybe the mushrooms told him his spouse cheated? Pretty sure getting suspicious about the person you're tripping with is more along the lines of schizophrenia, and voices implying the person is somewhat harming you. It's happened to people, it's documented. Can't prove or deny what mushrooms tell you but this is pretty much bullshit pal, but i suppose you're a shit poster ha, you got me
Edited by EvolvingVRNode (06/22/20 12:30 PM)
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Tweeq
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: EvolvingVRNode]
#26774509 - 06/22/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, imo the seller should keep as much distance between him/herself and any end users as possible. I mean, in general of course. The seller may have friends they like to trip together with 
But we know not everybody was made to handle psychedelics well so better to take precautions than be the scapegoat for ppl's bad trips and anxious experiences.
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InnerWisdom



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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: nooneman]
#26775098 - 06/22/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.
There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.
That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.
Kind of like violence and booze. Although I would think shrooms statistically would cause less violence. Some people just have violent tendencies and others are intentionally so, which does not seem like the case here.
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jarjarbic
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: EvolvingVRNode]
#26775226 - 06/22/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
EvolvingVRNode said:
Quote:
jarjarbic said: the mushrooms tell you if your spouse cheated on you
so maybe he learned the truth?
So he borderline sexually assaulted her cos maybe the mushrooms told him his spouse cheated?
what I mean is you learn to read people and you can see right through them in that state of consciousness.
So if they did cheat on you then you pick up on it right away. Because you are in the state of knowing, nothing is an assumption.
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psilocybinjunkie
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis] 1
#26775292 - 06/22/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
pootis said: So person A that my friend's dog had provided some mushrooms (cubes) to apparently freaked out in a violent way and attacked person B and as a result person A was arrested. Person B called me today to ask what had been provided.
So you sold shrooms to someone and they had a bad reaction and attacked someone else and now you're going to destroy your crop just in case they snitch you out.
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
#26775299 - 06/22/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hmm that sort of thinking can lead down serious delusions.
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wolf8312
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: InnerWisdom] 2
#26776669 - 06/23/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Violence is a rare but well known potential side effect. It probably happens to less than 1% of the population, but it does happen occasionally. There needs to be more research to find out what causes it, because the vast majority of people can trip hundreds of times and never ever become violent, but others who are in that rare minority can become extremely violent even their first time.
There have been instances of people displaying both purposeless and purposeful violence towards themselves and others. Some people smash everything nearby with no clear reasoning or goal, others physically harm themselves including cutting themselves, and some rare people attack others, including occasionally with weapons. Some rare few have even killed under the influence.
That's all very rare, but it's a known risk. That's why it's always good to start new people out low and to watch their reaction like a hawk. It's almost certainly genetic IMO.
Kind of like violence and booze. Although I would think shrooms statistically would cause less violence. Some people just have violent tendencies and others are intentionally so, which does not seem like the case here.
IMOE although outwardly it may seem as if the person is someone with violent tendencies, a psychotic usually attacks others, not out of innate malevolence but because he believes he is in mortal danger.
Saying that though, I remember hiding in a cupboard and attacking people, as after all, my murderer knew where I was hiding!
In Darwinian terms believing one's spouse to be cheating has produced homicidal reactions even in males who were not tripping or psychotic. A consequence of antiquated or outdated survival algorithms causing the exact opposite result (survival) for which they were originally designed when we were living in the wild.
If tripping it could easily start with a person believing he can read his wife's mind, produce an increasingly paranoid situation that then escalates into full-blown delusions and ensuing mayhem.
Those kinds of paranoid persecutory fears (my wife is cheating on me) are the kind of weaknesses and humiliations the demons love to hone in on, and gain control over their victims, so such issues should really be addressed before deciding to use psychedelics, as they can truly be dangerous.
Anything from terminal illness (your own or a relatives) sexual failures, a cheating spouse, or closet homosexuality could theoretically when tripping lead to psychosis if the user is unable to accept, and deal with these issues when they manifest. I would guess therefore that young people are more likely to be at risk...
Different people will react to such things differently, but these issues all tend to share one commonality in that they are, at the time perceived -rightly or wrongly- as a Darwinian threat to the humans very survival. It isn't so much a predisposition for psychosis, but an inability to prevent it, by just letting go of the ego/identity/reputation. Once one begins to seriously refuse where a trip is trying to take him, or what it is showing him about himself, the immense build up of pressure can rapidly lead to hallucinations of a persecutory nature and from there, delusions and full-blown insanity.
I think people need to be careful about their mental state going in, and never assume it won't happen to you, or the person you are giving psychedelics to, as even a person without any of the issues listed above may still get into serious trouble if he uses stupid doses and becomes delusional.
Once a person becomes certain he is about to die for example, almost anything can happen, for the same reasons as above...
I had an experience once on HBWR in which I took so fucking many that it wasn't so much I was insane in a paranoid/persecutory sense, but that for a while I almost completely dissociated, and wasn't aware what was happening, coming to eventually thrashing around and entangled in a mosquito net! Looking back that was probably my final wake up call, might have got myself into serious trouble, and it irks me looking back that I could have been so utterly irresponsible...
Psychedelics seriously do have the potential to be a whole other kind of dangerous compared to say alcohol if they are abused, not respected, or taken when a person is not in the right frame of mind. I do agree some are more predisposed to psychosis than others (some should probably never use them) but on the other hand this predisposition isn’t always necessarily innately physiological or psychological, but sometimes just circumstantial.
It’s easier for us to dismiss these occurrences as being the result of mental instability or a predisposition than to entertain the idea that it might happen to us, in much the same way people assume that the killer on the news must have been an evil psychopath, as opposed to someone like the person sitting across from them at the breakfast table!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (06/23/20 05:44 PM)
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Mugnath


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: wolf8312]
#26776795 - 06/23/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Back in High school I went to a house party. I met two guys and girl there who had done mushrooms together (I never had tried them up to this point or really knew much about them). One guy was cousins with the girl. The other guy was screwing around at some point in the night and had hit the girl with a flashlight. She was pissed obviously, and kept egging on her cousin over the next hour to kick the first guys ass.
The teen who had hit her with the flashlight was out doing something by his car in the street, a friend and I were standing in the driveway smoking cigarettes and chatting. The cousin comes walking by us out of the garage. By the time we knew what was happening, it was too late.
The cousin had found a baseball bat and proceeded to beat on this poor kids head, following the teenager down the street smacking him repeatedly with this bat until a few of us ran out and got between them. He took off running and was eventually grabbed by the police. He wasn't a violent person, and you would never have thought it possible. Mushrooms can enhance more than just positive emotions.
Edited by Mugnath (06/23/20 01:45 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Mugnath] 1
#26776847 - 06/23/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mugnath said: Back in High school I went to a house party. I met two guys and girl there who had done mushrooms together (I never had tried them up to this point or really knew much about them). One guy was cousins with the girl. The other guy was screwing around at some point in the night and had hit the girl with a flashlight. She was pissed obviously, and kept egging on her cousin over the next hour to kick the first guys ass.
The teen who had hit her with the flashlight was out doing something by his car in the street, a friend and I were standing in the driveway smoking cigarettes and chatting. The cousin comes walking by us out of the garage. By the time we knew what was happening, it was too late.
The cousin had found a baseball bat and proceeded to beat on this poor kids head, following the teenager down the street smacking repeatedly him with this bat until a few of us ran out and got between them. He took off running and was eventually grabbed by the police. He wasn't a violent person, and you would never have thought it possible. Mushrooms can enhance more than just positive emotions.
Sounds like another ego fueled Darwinian spaz out to be honest!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: pootis]
#26777089 - 06/23/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The mushrooms were a catalyst for an underlying mental condition(s) present in that persons psyche. Not the cause.
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polaritymind
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: wolf8312]
#26777092 - 06/23/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said:
Quote:
Mugnath said: Back in High school I went to a house party. I met two guys and girl there who had done mushrooms together (I never had tried them up to this point or really knew much about them). One guy was cousins with the girl. The other guy was screwing around at some point in the night and had hit the girl with a flashlight. She was pissed obviously, and kept egging on her cousin over the next hour to kick the first guys ass.
The teen who had hit her with the flashlight was out doing something by his car in the street, a friend and I were standing in the driveway smoking cigarettes and chatting. The cousin comes walking by us out of the garage. By the time we knew what was happening, it was too late.
The cousin had found a baseball bat and proceeded to beat on this poor kids head, following the teenager down the street smacking repeatedly him with this bat until a few of us ran out and got between them. He took off running and was eventually grabbed by the police. He wasn't a violent person, and you would never have thought it possible. Mushrooms can enhance more than just positive emotions.
Sounds like another ego fueled Darwinian spaz out to be honest!
WEll if the girlfriend kept telling him, in his diluded state he probably thought he was doing something romantic and chivalrous and that he had to do it for her, man. This over-romanticised thinking, the attachment of too much meaning to certain concepts and desires (like in this case and often in such storys revenge) is certainly due to psychedelics. I recently read this very interesting paper on http://www.psychedelic-library.org/ called "Psychedelic elefant" (http://www.psychedelic-library.org/Psychedelic_Elephant.pdf and in it the author states that the main effect of psychedelics is that it increases the salience, which is similar to meaningfulness, from only some things, to everything observed and generally increases the sense.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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jarjarbic
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Mugnath]
#26777180 - 06/23/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mugnath said:
The cousin had found a baseball bat and proceeded to beat on this poor kids head, .
did he die?
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Mugnath


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: jarjarbic]
#26777272 - 06/23/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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They air lifted him out of the field right behind the Catholic church across the street and he survived with some permanent brain damage (as far as I know, I didn't keep in contact with these folk).
The girl was cousins with the guy who beat the other guy with a bat, and she was quite lesbian (short hair, mens clothes, etc.)
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wolf8312
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Mugnath]
#26778245 - 06/24/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mugnath said: They air lifted him out of the field right behind the Catholic church across the street and he survived with some permanent brain damage (as far as I know, I didn't keep in contact with these folk).
The girl was cousins with the guy who beat the other guy with a bat, and she was quite lesbian (short hair, mens clothes, etc.)
Out of interest what do you personally believe caused him to get violent?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Grey Fox

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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: wolf8312]
#26778608 - 06/24/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Violent people do violent things. Some people have done violent things before, and dont talk about it. And I dont mean self-defense. So you never really know. Hard to blame the mushrooms for that.
-------------------- IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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Mugnath


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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: wolf8312]
#26778721 - 06/24/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said:
Quote:
Mugnath said: They air lifted him out of the field right behind the Catholic church across the street and he survived with some permanent brain damage (as far as I know, I didn't keep in contact with these folk).
The girl was cousins with the guy who beat the other guy with a bat, and she was quite lesbian (short hair, mens clothes, etc.)
Out of interest what do you personally believe caused him to get violent?
To be a bit more detailed (I didn't give out all the info because its just been so long and my memory is not as sharp as it was) she wasn't the only bad apple in the bunch who was telling him to go out and beat this guy, she was just the most vocal (probably 4 or 5 people who were antagonizing the guy). Peer pressure to not look like a bitch? Fight or flight response? Just repetitive thinking about an unjust situation that fomented anger? Broken home? I couldn't really give an answer without his input. I know these two guys were childhood best friends though, and that violence wasn't a common characteristic for them. Both were violent though on mushrooms that day, one hit that girl pretty hard in the back of the head with a flashlight, and the other one hit his best friend in the back of the head with a bat 4 or 5 times in retribution.
Consider Mesoamerican cultures. The Mayan were depicted with mushrooms in their scenes of human sacrifice, I believe the same is true for the Zapotec.
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Northerner
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Mugnath] 1
#26779681 - 06/24/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've felt threatened before on mushrooms and become violent, which is very unlike me. I hadn't been in a fight since high school about 20 years before. But if the stars align in just the wrong way people can and do lose their shit. Once I got away from the person and situation everything was fine and I chilled out. But in the moment the animal brain really took over. There wasn't any real consequences from that nice for me, but it was a clear reminder about set and setting. Had I been sober I would had diffused the situation easily without all the drama.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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wolf8312
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Northerner]
#26780429 - 06/24/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: I've felt threatened before on mushrooms and become violent, which is very unlike me. I hadn't been in a fight since high school about 20 years before. But if the stars align in just the wrong way people can and do lose their shit. Once I got away from the person and situation everything was fine and I chilled out. But in the moment the animal brain really took over. There wasn't any real consequences from that nice for me, but it was a clear reminder about set and setting. Had I been sober I would had diffused the situation easily without all the drama.
Had a similar thing. I was with my drunk friend once but where he was drunk and I was tripping.
Ordinarily if I was drunk too, we would sometimes play fight (it was actually just fighting really though no shots to the head).
Anyway when he started up, despite my being adamant I didn't want to fight (it seemed ridiculous in that state of mind which was truly peaceful and non-violent on my part) he persisted which led to a very ugly scene in which we fought for real and both became very upset with me needing to remind him I was tripping. It wasn't his fault he just didn't realize the dynamic had shifted...
As you say it's a very unwise idea to corner a person who is on a psychedelic (luckily I wasn't tripping that much by that point) as it can cause animal reactions. I can only imagine what my reaction may have been had he been a stranger or someone I didn't know and trust though. Or what his reaction would have been to my slamming his head into a wall, and how I would have reacted to any escalation on his part (and so on and so on) after that. A fight to the fricking death!
I learned after that to stay the hell away from drunks when tripping!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Thayendanegea
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: wolf8312]
#26781339 - 06/25/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I learned after that to stay the hell away from drunks when tripping
Word to the wise...very good advice.
-------------------- Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better. Albert Einstein
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TheHappyChemical
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Re: Bad trip that ended in violence - looking for answers [Re: Thayendanegea]
#26786312 - 06/27/20 03:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Reminds me of Fear and Loathing. What in the hell are these goddamn animals!?
-------------------- "The only constant in life is change."- Heraclitus
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