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Offlineathos56
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Hi all, new cultivator here!
    #26754830 - 06/18/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hello everybody, I'm an experienced autodidact and my new project is Mushrooms!  I have to say that this forum has a wealth of information, which I have spent a lot of time reading.  Thanks for sharing all of your experience.  I have 3 strains going in PF Tek jars, only one of them have fully colonized and the other two look like they have stalled about half way through the process. I've marked them with sharpy and have seen minimal change after 3 days, roughly 4 weeks after inoculation.  I have gathered the materials to do BRF agar in jelly jars, mainly for the purpose of perpetuating my grows.  I also have materials to make a bulk substrate Coir/Gypsum/Vermiculite. I also have some bags and whole rye. Finally I have much of the stuff I think I need, bins, pressure cooker, STAB, etc... My plan is to use my one group of fully colonized jars to inoculate my bulk substrate for my first attempt at fruiting.  I understand that "jars stall for a reason" and the common wisdom is to toss them.  But I hate waste and this project is not 100% necessary so if I take risks and fail the cost in time and money are basically meaningless since I'll still be learning something and everything is for strictly personal use. So for my stalled jars I was hoping to do two things salvage what colonized and see if I can get something out of them, and maybe try and sample a piece of tissue to make an agar plates to inoculate bags of grain.  Well there you have it, I'll likely post pictures if I get a chance, but I thought I'd get my first post out of the way and get feedback on the rationality of my plan. Thanks for your time.


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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26759064 - 06/20/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Buy real agar and some LMD before you start taking "tissue samples ". And don't take samples from possible contaminated, stalled jars when you have healthy jars available. Also,  gypsum is not needed anywhere in the cultivation of cubes. On a positive note,  I've dumped stalled jars in flower pots, covered them with old potting soil and gotten flushes.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: normalperson]
    #26759982 - 06/20/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the info.  I have Telephone brand agar, I was thinking of using BRF as the nutrients.  I saw gypsum mentioned in most of the threads I read, so it's in there now, couldn't take it out if I tried :smile:.  My plan with the samples is to try and fruit what can and take samples from the fruits.  If I get a high contamination rate I'll just try and do better the next time and so on and so on. If you only knew how many loaves of sourdough I tossed learning how to make bread, or how many plants I tossed learning to grow weed, or how much magic smoke I let out learning how to make vacuum tube amps... Good thing I got my kids right the first time (JK, JK, I would have kept them anyway)

Anyhow, I made my coir substrate, put it in a 25qt bin lined up to 4 inches with black plastic.  I put some 2 inch holes touching the 4" level and some at the top and used micro-pore tape to cover them.  I filled in and crumbled 5 of my colonized jars and mixed well.  They were indeed fully colonized and smelled strongly of fresh mushrooms and nothing else.  They smelled really good.  So now its a waiting game.

For my stalled jars I'm thinking of doing more of a traditional fruiting of PF Tek jars.  I read a couple of post about how people washed off the uncolonized sections of the cake and fruited what was left.  I know it'll likely end badly but I'm not doing anything else during quarantine.  All I need are a couple clean fruits to try and do some cloning.  Again I'll take picks of any positive results.


Edited by athos56 (06/20/20 02:19 PM)


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26760017 - 06/20/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Brf can be used but is a bit limited in its application IMO. Might as well just get the telephone agar and do no pour. As for stalling for your cakes etc, pics would help diagnose what’s going on. In this hobby clear pics are worth 1000 words. Show as much of what’s going on as possible.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26760142 - 06/20/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Pictures!








My fully colonized jars, my crumbled cakes were solid white all the way through and took quite a bit of force to rip in half.

And some of my supplies, the loops for streak plates is hard to see, fine vermiculite not pictured.



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26760166 - 06/20/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

How did you sterilize those? They look a bit bacterial.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26760199 - 06/20/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

90 mins at 15psi.  There is a layer of foil under the lid so that the canning jar edge sticks to the foil ensuring that there are only 4 small inoculation holes between the cake and the outside world.  They only stalled when in a moment of stoniness I taped all the holes shut.  I later replaced the tape with micro-pore.  I think I might have starved them for air.  The other possibility is that I didn't use enough BRF in my initial jars.  My cakes that colonized well I added a lot more BRF.  When I crack them open I'll do the smell test and examine one closely.  I should also say that as the cake contracted the top vermiculite later started to fall down the sides and that There is condensation around the sides but it is clear and runs like water, ie not gooey, and they all still smell great. 


Edited by athos56 (06/20/20 04:14 PM)


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26760238 - 06/20/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure i understand how tin foil under the lid helps? Those lids are meant to seal in the PC and they do it real well. And solid tape was no good you're right.. i've seen other people using micropore tape and somtiems its working fine and other times they're asking about why cakes stalled so that might be affecting things idk. The dry vermiculite layer works as a filter if you just inoculate and then let the jars sit.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26760268 - 06/20/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Never ever choke off a colonizing substrate completely. That’s just begging for issues.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26760299 - 06/20/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks guys, lessons are being learned.  IDK about the foil, the thought was that a contaminate would have to make it through 2 little holes rather than one because there another layer under the lid, may help or may not.

I'm trying grain next, so if I can pull that off, this might be the only time I ever do PF Tek.

I read you can use the water from soaking grain in your agar, so I may try that too.

Thanks for all the comments! It helps to get feedback.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26762050 - 06/21/20 01:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ha! I was rinsing some rye tonight and a what do I find floating at the top? A pot seed.  Probably from some sort of industrial hemp strain.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26762126 - 06/21/20 02:44 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Try to minimize your interactions with colonizing cakes. Shifting the verm barrier at the top can allow contams to make their way down to your substrate.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Mugnath]
    #26762831 - 06/21/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I'm guilty of wanting to look at every jar 2 times a day.  I'll chill out on that once I've seen it a few times. 

So I soaked some rye overnight and I'm currently reading up on either letting it keep soaking all day, skipping the simmer and going straight to the PC, or doing a couple batches into 170+ water for 10 min.  I don't want to make mush.
Basically this
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12895332/fpart/1/vc/1

Or a no boil tek I was watching on the Tube, Mushroom-Adventures...


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26768234 - 06/21/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, well...  One of my bags burst in the PC and the other opened up a bit.  I grabbed the bag that opened up to close it off, got it into my STAB, folded it over and zip tied it closed above the filter patch.  The bag that burst only lost a handful of grains and I'm going to try and PC it again to see what happens.  I had placed a plate over the bags so idk what was up.  I'm hoping I can try and inoculate the bag that opened up.  How long would it take to see if it was contaminated? The good news is that the consistency of the grains was great.


Edited by athos56 (06/21/20 10:48 PM)


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26768237 - 06/21/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

RoderRabbit had the answer. 

"If it cools too fast, the PC loses pressure before the inside of the bag cools down enough to lose pressure, thus the pressure differential between inside and outside the bag inflates it to the bursting point. I've worked out a system to prevent that from happening, and it involves putting a tyvek sleeve in the bag, extending from the substrate up and to the outside of the bag." 

I pulled the weight and let all the steam out...


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26768247 - 06/21/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:nono:


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26779350 - 06/24/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Update, I got all my cakes birthed and processed.  I did a couple of things to look at a few processes.  One strain I crumbled in some Coir substrate and put a small layer coir over the top (mycelium is now popping up all over it.) It was my best shot just judging by the way the jars looked.

Now as to the jars that looked liked they stalled.  One strain I dunked and rolled and placed in a chamber to see if they'll fruit.  When I broke open a sacrificial lamb it had mycelium all through it, it just seemed like patches didn't colonize.  Nothing seemed odd about those patches and it had the same consistency of the BRF/Vermiculite blend that went in.  We'll see what happens

The last strain I crumbled into Coir like the first kind but I left off the coir top layer.  One thing that may have influenced thing is that the vermiculite I got was really fine, Ive noticed that most of the stuff I see in pictures here are way more coarse, maybe the cakes got too packed.  IDK, I'm out of vermiculite so I'll try coarser stuff next time.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26779407 - 06/24/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yes that could definitely cause an issue and explains why the cakes look like they might be battling something. This is why it’s best to follow a tek as exactly as possible. Seemingly insignificant changes or substitutions can cause major issues later on.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26779475 - 06/24/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the feedback, it's always great to find a good community.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26787453 - 06/27/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Some update pictures, they're not the best pictures. Two tubs with coir cap and growth popping up everywhere, and one without a coir cap all fuzzy and stuff.  It all looks good, to my untrained eye. I have some cakes in a humidity chamber but they are boring so far.



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26793388 - 06/29/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Going to do some Agar plates tonight, I got a couple of options.  One is a bead container I've seen posted here and the other is a lot like the little Glad cups.  There are generic and have a twist top.  They are called  Turn and Seal Mini sold by Safeway. I'm using Bod's BRF recipe with Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek, due to what I have on hand. 



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26793737 - 06/30/20 05:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

athos56 said:
Going to do some Agar plates tonight, I got a couple of options.  One is a bead container I've seen posted here and the other is a lot like the little Glad cups.  There are generic and have a twist top.  They are called  Turn and Seal Mini sold by Safeway. I'm using Bod's BRF recipe with Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek, due to what I have on hand. 






I think you should mix up a 1 cup batch of agar and do 8 of each. Good luck and post pics of what you decide!


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: jay.ach]
    #26794406 - 06/30/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Updates!  The Agar went well even though I was really baked.  I got some condensation because I probably poured to hot but all in all not a disaster.  Also, my first tubs are starting to pin. Here is a question for the gurus.  Now that I'm seeing some pins should I remove a bit of the top layer of micro-pore tape over my air holes to increase the FAE?  I have a full layer going horizontal across the hole and a partial layer going vertical, I figured I'd add/remove the vertical layer to regulate FAE. 



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26794411 - 06/30/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:trollhide:


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26799082 - 07/02/20 11:21 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Almost 2 full days from when I saw my first pin.



Edited by athos56 (07/02/20 11:23 AM)


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26799333 - 07/02/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Also done today was gathering some tissue to see if my agar setup will work out.  I took a pin from one of my tubs, and some mycelium from the others that are likely not going anywhere.  I don't care too much about the second tubs, I started them to see if I could salvage something out of them, if not they are going into my chosen piece of ground.  I flame sterilized all the tools I worked with. I'll post pictures of whatever happens.


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26803371 - 07/04/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So how is it looking?


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26803482 - 07/04/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Conditions look okay. Based on the look of the fruits I’m going to say your sub was a little over field capacity.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26803496 - 07/04/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I did the squeeze test and wasn't exactly sure how much water and how hard a squeeze.  It started out, squeeze like I'm trying to kill it for sleeping with my wife to get a drop of liquid.  That seemed a bit dry, so I added a bit more water. Anyhow, I'm stoked because mushrooms grew!  Question based on what you see, can I get a couple more flushes out of this?


Edited by athos56 (07/04/20 12:24 PM)


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26803515 - 07/04/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If it doesn’t contam out the next flushes will likely be better. It should be the goal to make the first flush the best but the second is often forgiving.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26803517 - 07/04/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Your first test was a success, you should absolutely squeeze it like it tried to sleep with your wife and you should not get more than a drop or three of water.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: SoupyGeorge]
    #26803802 - 07/04/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the tips!  It looks like the these tubs are going to be my only successes so far, the other tub and cakes are not doing anything.  I'm going to put them in the ground later today I think.  Nothing seems to be happening very fast on my agar yet, I'll update that with pictures if anything happens.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26806976 - 07/06/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Welp, here is what it's all about.  #0 capsules, IDK exactly what they weigh my scale isn't that great, something I learned yesterday.  I took one today with my coffee and I feel better than I have in weeks.  I'm re-hydrating my tubs to go for a second flush today!  Thanks for all the great info and feedback.



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26809405 - 07/07/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Update on my attempts to use agar plates.  To date I have, tried to clone tissue samples and streaked a few plates with spores from a print.  One of the clones was a whole pin on a plate like I've seen in a couple of posts by the forum gurus.  I think it's turned out well, no visible contamination and I believe there are a couple sectors to isolate.  Anywhoo, here are the pictures.



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26809424 - 07/07/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly I wouldn’t bother “isolating” a clone. Just take whatever looks healthy and run with it.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26809661 - 07/07/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You're probably right.  I was planning on grabbing a section of the denser wedge and then maybe one other spot. Grow them out and then go agar wedge -> grain jar -> tub.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26821535 - 07/13/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hello all!  I've been trying to keep busy to keep from going insane during quarantine.  I've been battling Fungus Gnats in one of my tubs, boooo, but I got some stuff on the way to help combat that problem.  I also got parts for a Martha ordered, I'll be posting pictures once I got it set up and dialed in, can't be much harder than my old Hydroponics tent.  Had my first trip in years, 2g Lemon Tek in some tea, it was fun but I was nauseous for a couple hours. Finally, I've been having fun growing stuff on agar, here are some pictures. It's a mix of tissue and spores from my first grow.



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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26821597 - 07/13/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why a Martha? You growing some exotics? Doing some edibles? Martha’s suck for cubes IMO.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26821631 - 07/13/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm picking up some Reishi and Lion's Mane and a bunch of other stuff.  I emptied out my 6x8 grow room so I'm trying everything. When I get into something I tend to go all in, photographic darkroom, 2U server, MJ grow room, green house, spray booth, etc...  Whatever will grow in it I'll try.  I would have got a car lift but I didn't want to renovate the garage.  All diy so it never ends up costing much.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26821670 - 07/13/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Well if you want to grow cubes proficiently it’s going to be harder in a Martha.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26821719 - 07/13/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Gotya, I got a lot of space so I'll keep those outside in the tubs.


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Re: Hi all, new cultivator here! [Re: athos56]
    #26838386 - 07/22/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hi all, thought I'd post some pictures for your viewing pleasure.  The yellow cast picture is a plate where I saved one of the strains I screwed up the first time I attempted cultivating shrooms. The jars are my first attempts at agar to grain transfer, they appear to be colonizing nicely.  In the ziplockish containers are my first transfers from my spore streak plates, they also appear to be doing well.  Finally, the last to are transfers from plates I made from tissue samples I took from the largest mushroom from my first flush.  I'm pretty pleased with how everything is going.  I'll likely abandon actives and go straight culinary and non-active medicinal mushrooms from now on.  The actives seem to trigger my migraines and I was nauseous and photo-phobic for days after. Anyhow, here are the pictures.



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