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smarterwater
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Casing layer? ( Progress pics )
#26752031 - 06/17/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello All!
First timer here and I'm having some trouble coming up with a direct answer for casing layers and need some input. I wanted to list out my substrate and status and get some external opinions. I have included a screenshot of my dashboard with rH + Temp levels for more detailed info.
Current Status: Day 6 of B+ colonization with substrate in a 55qt tub.
My Substrate Bucket Mix: Vermiculite (Fine Grade) Brick of Coco Coir Spent coffee grounds Gypsum Growbag grains added in after full colonization
My Questions: - Does this look okay so far? See attached or HQ image from imgur
- Do I require a casing layer based on my substrate? I'm out of CocoCoir and I'm worried about using 100% fine verm for this.
- Can I skip doing a casing layer? Will this wreck my yield?
- I've been doing 12/12 LED lighting during colonization as I read somewhere that its better. Was that choice a mistake?

Edited by smarterwater (06/17/20 04:34 PM)
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CagedApe
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here (pics) [Re: smarterwater]
#26752046 - 06/17/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Looks cool, I'm a first time grower too. Good luck!
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mushpunx
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26752058 - 06/17/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Upload the photo to shroomery so we don't have to click an unknown link.
Cubensis does not require a casing layer. It can benefit from it,the variety Penis Envy seems to like it, but honestly so long as you keep surface conditions nice there is no need for a casing, especially on a bulk substrate.
If I were you I would switch to a florescent (tube or CFL, doesn't matter). 6500k range.
Do not use a fan on your tub, and there is no need to monitor humidity or temp. The fan will be counterproductive. Substrates need FAE, which can only be provided by holes.. or like a lot of us do now, we just set the lid upside down on the tub.
Most of us don't let our tubs colonize before putting them in "fruiting conditions". They seem to benefit from receiving FAE right from the time we spawn the tubs.
Lastly, how did you prepare your substrate, did you pasteurize it? Coir + verm subs can be prepared with simple heat treatment, boiling water in a 5 gallon bucket. But when you add coffee grounds, the substrate needs to be pasteurized properly. This means it needs to be heated to between 140 + 160°F for 1 hour.
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smarterwater
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: mushpunx]
#26752073 - 06/17/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the response! EDIT - I got them uploaded now properly! 
I'm using b+ spores from an injected grow bag. I mixed this bag with the substrate in layers. Top layer is swirled around a little as suggested in the popular monotub youtube tutorial.
Thanks for the lighting tip, I'm using LED strips wrapped around the clear tub... but I'll see what I can do.
I'm using a microcontroller to only run the fan 1 minute every 8 hours with poly stuffed holes for FAE. Is this acceptable or should I avoid it all together? The fan isn't running during colonization phase and the hole for it is taped up to trap the c02.
Substrate was prepped using a guide I found here which is I believe exactly how you stated. Gypsum + coffee was only added after I let it sit in the sealed bucket for 1 hour, mixed then sealed to soak overnight. I hope that is correct.
Edited by smarterwater (06/17/20 04:28 PM)
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smarterwater
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: mushpunx]
#26752200 - 06/17/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: Upload the photo to shroomery so we don't have to click an unknown link.
Cubensis does not require a casing layer. It can benefit from it,the variety Penis Envy seems to like it, but honestly so long as you keep surface conditions nice there is no need for a casing, especially on a bulk substrate.
If I were you I would switch to a florescent (tube or CFL, doesn't matter). 6500k range.
Do not use a fan on your tub, and there is no need to monitor humidity or temp. The fan will be counterproductive. Substrates need FAE, which can only be provided by holes.. or like a lot of us do now, we just set the lid upside down on the tub.
Most of us don't let our tubs colonize before putting them in "fruiting conditions". They seem to benefit from receiving FAE right from the time we spawn the tubs.
Lastly, how did you prepare your substrate, did you pasteurize it? Coir + verm subs can be prepared with simple heat treatment, boiling water in a 5 gallon bucket. But when you add coffee grounds, the substrate needs to be pasteurized properly. This means it needs to be heated to between 140 + 160°F for 1 hour.
After I'm ready to fruit, how do you suggest I do it without the casing layer? I uploaded the pics of the monotub.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26752360 - 06/17/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You should read a pasteurization tek. The way you prepped that was not the way ; ) It may still work out fine but around now is the time issues pop up if they're going to. User FrankHorrigan has a good TEK, also i've had success using the MudaBucket method.
And you should read a whole bunch of good stuff in general - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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smarterwater
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26752590 - 06/17/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: You should read a pasteurization tek. The way you prepped that was not the way ; ) It may still work out fine but around now is the time issues pop up if they're going to. User FrankHorrigan has a good TEK, also i've had success using the MudaBucket method.
And you should read a whole bunch of good stuff in general - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
I poured boiling water on 1 whole brick of coco coir and 2qt verm. Sealed it up for an hour then hand mixed with sanitized gloves. I used a french press about .3 -.4 qt of ground coffee (also boiled water). I squeezed the ground coffee to get all the liquid out and dump it into the bucket after it soaked for in the boiling water for the initial hour. I also added a little bit of Gypsum per a users suggestion on this forum, about 1/2qt of gypsum. I did this all in a freshly clean bathroom but the monotub is in my office for colonizing and fruiting so I'm stressing about contams.
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mushpunx
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26752747 - 06/17/20 08:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah that's not proper pasteurization. Coir (and coir/verm) does not need proper pasteurization. It only needs heat treatment to make it easier for the much to digest, this is why we use boiling water.
Other substrates, or coir/verm with additives like coffee, typically need to be properly pasteurized. If you sterilized these substrates, (or partially sterilize, like with boiling water), they become vulnerable to competing contaminants. Pasteurization kills harmful bacteria while leaving beneficial bacteria alive so it can help protect against other contams and give your mushroom myc a sporting chance. Harmful bacteria die below 140F, while beneficial bacteria can survive up to 160F or so for an hour. This is why we properly pasteurize coffee. I think it's best to just use coir and skip the additives, too much work. Gypsum is fine.
When you spawn your tubs, you are spawning in open air. They have been exposed to tons of contams that get mixed in when you mix up your tubs. Clean spawn is resistant to contams in open air. If a tub contaminates during or before the first flush, it is almost *always* from contaminates spawn (unless the substrate was prepared improperly, in those cases this can cause contamination too.).
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smarterwater
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: mushpunx]
#26752781 - 06/17/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh wow thank you for that explanation guy, I believe I understand now! I purchased a sterilized grow bag with whole grain oats, rye grain, vermiculite to start. After it had colonized the bag, I layered it into my tub with the homemade substrate.
Am I doomed already or is it more like 50/50? I'm thinking about ordering another substrate bag and starting colonization over now before its to late.
*smashes head on desk*
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mushpunx
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: mushpunx]
#26752798 - 06/17/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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"I'm using a microcontroller to only run the fan 1 minute every 8 hours with poly stuffed holes for FAE. Is this acceptable or should I avoid it all together? The fan isn't running during colonization phase and the hole for it is taped up to trap the c02."
Take the fan right out. We don't even fan manually. FAE is provided by the holes, and restricted by the polyfill, which allows us to adjust the amount of FAE by how right or loose we make it. The fan would just serve to dry things out.
"After I'm ready to fruit, how do you suggest I do it without the casing layer? I uploaded the pics of the monotub."
The same as you would as if you were using a casing layer. Like I said before, you don't have to wait for your substrate to be fully colonized before introducing fruiting conditions, you can do that right after spawning, it's proved beneficial. Actually, since you have the polyfill in already, your substrate already is in "fruiting conditions", it's getting FAE. Btw next time you spawn your tubs, mix together totally instead of layering.
You have too many holes. In a traditional monotub you have 4 (1.5-2" or so) holes at substrate level and 2 at the top. Anyways you need to dial in your substrate. The bottom holes get packed very tight and top very loose to start. What you are looking for is a constant very light layer of water droplets across the surface of the substrate, that starts to dry up directly in front of the bottom poly. This shows you are giving the max FAE allowable without letting the surface droplets start to dry out. If you see puddles or it gets too wet, you need to loosen the bottom poly. If it gets too dry, tighten the poly and mist the substrate well. The holes provide the FAE and the poly restricts it so we can adjust it.
It's a balancing act. A well designed and dialed in tub needs very little misting or maintenance at all. Lots of us have stopped using holes in our tubs at all, we flip the lid on top of the tub upside doen - it's the same idea. The cracks provide plenty of FAE and we can use the lid to restrict and adjust the FAE, same concept as the poly.
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mushpunx
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26752815 - 06/17/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
smarterwater said: Oh wow thank you for that explanation guy, I believe I understand now! I purchased a sterilized grow bag with whole grain oats, rye grain, vermiculite to start. After it had colonized the bag, I layered it into my tub with the homemade substrate.
Am I doomed already or is it more like 50/50? I'm thinking about ordering another substrate bag and starting colonization over now before its to late.
*smashes head on desk*
No you aren't necessarily doomed, it looks fine so far, it might do well!
Next time though, you should work with agar. It's actually very easy and provided us a tool to isolate and store clean mycelium, and clone good fruits!
Spore prints are made from mushrooms grown in open air exposed to contams, so they are never 100% sterile, and by extension neither are spore syringes. BRF is pretty forgiving and they are usually clean enough for that but when it comes to grain, there is always a chance it will introduce mold or bacteria. Green mold starts out white and hides in spawn, it often won't show up until the first flush, because when you fruit the substrate you are in essence fruiting the mold too, and the green is the spores you see. By using a clean culture on agar you are gaurentee clean inoculant.
Just something to think about for next grow
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smarterwater
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26752833 - 06/17/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank you so much! I'll be digging into more research and do it better next time.
As per your recommendation I've tried to take some very quick photos in a proper light. Would you mind using your expertise to give it a glace-over? I'll be happy if I at least get 1 fruit out of it as I've never tried mushrooms before and I've very much looking forward to it. 
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mushpunx
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Re: Casing layer or na? First timer here [Re: smarterwater]
#26753147 - 06/18/20 12:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It doesn't look contaminated right now
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