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InvisibleRahz
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Victimhood
    #26751634 - 06/17/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Is there such a thing as being a victim of one's own mind?

Does this abdicate one of responsibility?


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26751668 - 06/17/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

unless you take yourself hostage, who abdicates what first?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Victimhood [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26752054 - 06/17/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey now, I'm the one asking questions here!

Not that it isn't a fair question but I'm really just looking for opinions on the subject. I agree that the concept seems paradoxical.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26752301 - 06/17/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

maybe autoimmune diseases are that


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Victimhood [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26752365 - 06/17/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The self is complicated and numerous energies and vibes are vying for actuality.  The scope could be immediate or long term so certain muses within the personality have a tooth to pick with others who may have gotten the benefit of the doubt.

So then there is a come to Jesus moment where there is reconciliation and maybe redemption down the road.  Or maybe there isn’t where victimhood is inevitable.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz] * 2
    #26752385 - 06/17/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Is there such a thing as being a victim of one's own mind?



It strikes me that being a victim of other humans - especially when young - significantly increases the likelihood that one will be a victim of ones mind.

I don't believe that it is an inescapable state - people from every walk and circumstance have broken free of it - yet I do feel that it is a default state to be a victim to our vast consciousness and intelligence.

Perhaps it is a rite of passage to break free of it? Perhaps it is moreso a challenge, the more we live apart from mother earth?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26752386 - 06/17/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I mean do you ever look at a past version of yourself and thought "Damn I can't believe I dated/hung out with such a dysfunctional person?" or "damn I don't know how I took on such a political belief"? Its the same thing. The core principle is going to be that


At that period of time you believed XYZ political belief because at the time you thought XYZ was genuinely the correct belief. And then you lacked free will or even ability to have a different opinion. I was abducted by my own mind to believe that literal socialism was the correct way in 2014

I came to a new conclusion. I take a lot of socialist principles but no longer beleive it to be the right way. 10 years from now I will have a different view etc.


So yes. Responsibility and free will is relative. But ultimately I think that you still need to acknowledge it as a concept to have a productive life


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26752461 - 06/17/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Many schizophrenics are definitely victims of their own minds, and society is of the opinion that yes, it does absolve them of responsibility. The infamous "insanity defense" for heinous acts done out of psychosis. But even in schizophrenics, many of whom hear voices sometimes with very complex personalities, perhaps we need to distinguish "mind" from "self." There's still a "you" in there at odds with the voice-being. So it can be complex, I think.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Victimhood [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26752517 - 06/17/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Many schizophrenics are definitely victims of their own minds, and society is of the opinion that yes, it does absolve them of responsibility. The infamous "insanity defense" for heinous acts done out of psychosis. But even in schizophrenics, many of whom hear voices sometimes with very complex personalities, perhaps we need to distinguish "mind" from "self." There's still a "you" in there at odds with the voice-being. So it can be complex, I think.




Feel like there are a bunch of salesmen making their pitch internally where the “ego” for lack of a better word receives and digests, potentially, these takes.  Yet the ego is made of the same thing as the salesmen.  So we aren’t to actuality yet. 

And I would say various takes and pitches come loaded with a lot of momentum for one reason or another and help develop what comes to be the personality that gets actualized through the will.  But there isn’t only one voice and so there is a bickering back and forth in terms of how to go about things.  I think victimization is an acceptable word in this sense because some of the salesmen feel shorted and will let the ego know about it especially if things aren’t settled.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26752538 - 06/17/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder if the salesmen are like the trickster in shamanism


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26752550 - 06/17/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Brings to mind a few lines from The Recorded sayings of Zen Master Rinzai of Chin Province, Sutra.


“He’s always at home, yet forever on the way. 
The true man without rank went in and out the face.

The monks of the two halls gave equal shouts, but guest and host were obvious (!)
Illumination and action are simultaneous, fundamentally without front or back. 

A mirror confronting a form, an empty valley echoing a sound. 
Marvelously responding in any direction, he left not a trace behind.”


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/17/20 08:36 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Victimhood [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26752635 - 06/17/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you for the replies


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26753660 - 06/18/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Is there such a thing as being a victim of one's own mind?



It strikes me that being a victim of other humans - especially when young - significantly increases the likelihood that one will be a victim of ones mind.

I don't believe that it is an inescapable state - people from every walk and circumstance have broken free of it - yet I do feel that it is a default state to be a victim to our vast consciousness and intelligence.

Perhaps it is a rite of passage to break free of it? Perhaps it is moreso a challenge, the more we live apart from mother earth?




I think you're right. Tough love and pointing out victimhood is not always a good strategy, when dealing with a narcissist for instance. When the only possible resolution is to acquiesce when the reality is plain as day, what do you do?

Walking away is extremely difficult, at least when you've invested a lot of time and energy into someone. Even when it's the right decision, it can feel all wrong. It hurts to care when that care does no good. And perhaps the possibility of breaking free is there, but people do things on their own time. It's impossible to know if or when that will happen.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26753739 - 06/18/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

“We think of the key, each in his prison
thinking of the key, each confirms a prison.“

T.S Eliot, The Waste Land


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Victimhood [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26753827 - 06/18/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, I know. in such a prison there are even no walls. Nothing to prevent walking away but one's own thoughts.

But when you love someone, you love them. I've read that when it's right you know it. I've never had that experience. And having feelings of care, one generally doesn't walk away at the first sign of trouble. It's only when patterns develop and various avenues have failed that one begins to loose hope.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26753938 - 06/18/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Would I be right if I guessed there is a particular situation in your life which was the catalyst for you bringing up this subject Rahz?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26753997 - 06/18/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Is there such a thing as being a victim of one's own mind?

Does this abdicate one of responsibility?




The answer to the first question is yes, as we all know, already:
Fear is the simplest example, whether mistaking a stick for a snake,
or having an unreasonable phobia.

The answer to the 2nd question, as is often the case, would seem to depend on the context.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26753998 - 06/18/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:But when you love someone, you love them. I've read that when it's right you know it. ...



aside from being in lockdown with a roomie that complains, which does pertain more to prisoner antics, I would say the following with regard to mate choices:
Appearance - appeals - maybe strongly! - this will fade
Behavior - decent - can degrade during confinement and age
Compatibility - a few common interests - can increase or decrease over time
Devotion - this may be the most important in knowing it, since when you keep your promises and your partner keeps theirs, even if one or both get ugly with age, grouchy with confinement, bored with shared interests, the caring for each other remains, if for no other reason than a promise which is more lasting than the body, and therefore a spiritual bond.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26754063 - 06/18/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Would I be right if I guessed there is a particular situation in your life which was the catalyst for you bringing up this subject Rahz?




Yes. I have been supporting someone for the last 18 months and it ended badly yesterday. We got along well when there weren't issues, but also a very broken person with extreme narcissism. I have my own issues and feel like a failure for not figuring out how to make it work.

I did the best I could to be there for them, it just wasn't in me to be the person they needed me to be. I suspect their life will not be improving in the short term. All I had to do was let them be right, which I have done dozens of times. I just couldn't do it this time.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Victimhood [Re: Rahz]
    #26754132 - 06/18/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Is there such a thing as being a victim of one's own mind?

Does this abdicate one of responsibility?





Ask Pinkerton. He is a professional victim.


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