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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed] * 1
    #26748978 - 06/16/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It's not common, and if you're seeing it often, it's likely an indication of contamination: stress fruiting substrates will speed to maturity running away from bacteria and competitor molds, and dump spores asap  to ensure future survival...

You've tried other varieties, a strain is a single set of genetics derived from many, many, MANY isolating transfers... even a clone culture from a single fruit will still contain thousands of individual strains...


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26749066 - 06/16/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
It's not common, and if you're seeing it often, it's likely an indication of contamination: stress fruiting substrates will speed to maturity running away from bacteria and competitor molds, and dump spores asap  to ensure future survival...

You've tried other varieties, a strain is a single set of genetics derived from many, many, MANY isolating transfers... even a clone culture from a single fruit will still contain thousands of individual strains...



Okay...Did you not see the start of the thread? This was a cloned fruit put to grain then g2g'd and spawned, and now it's producing fruits, this isn't a case of fruits not sporing due to contamination, stress, mold, and neither are my other fruits in other substrates that put out normal spores. I get 5th flush fruits that have spores on caps that are just starting to open same as first flush.

Pardon my choice in words, I grow other varieties of plants and those get referred to as strains. That said, would this be a strain since it's a clone of a fruit? Or are fruits genetically diverse throughout as well, meaning we would never be able to isolate strains just from cloning fruits? Regardless, I guess I got lucky and ended up with a feature that I aimed for showing up in my fruits even with genetic diversity in the cloned fruiting body!


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed] * 1
    #26749329 - 06/16/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

With mushrooms you’d have to isolate down to one set of genetics to have a strain.

Clones have a bunch of strains in them but much less than you’d have if you started from spores.

Basically mushrooms are weird as shit.


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OfflineT666NY
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26749523 - 06/16/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What flush did this bad boy come from? Looks great! Good work!


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: T666NY]
    #26749617 - 06/16/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
With mushrooms you’d have to isolate down to one set of genetics to have a strain.

Clones have a bunch of strains in them but much less than you’d have if you started from spores.

Basically mushrooms are weird as shit.



Yea, I've read that to get a feature to be prominent in spores it needs to be cloned 7x from fruits. I plan to clone fruits from this batch regardless of the lack of apparent spores, try to isolate a mid sized fruit trait along with the sporelessness.
Quote:

T666NY said:
What flush did this bad boy come from? Looks great! Good work!



The original clone material was first flush, the fruits that I posted in the last day or so are from first flush as well.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed]
    #26749668 - 06/16/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Are you sure you’re not thinking of a variety/trait is considered stable after seven generations from spore?

It’s been a while since I read the rusty white thread I need to brush up on my mushroom genealogy.

I never thought about it but sporeless stuff must have a clock on it since you can’t start over with spores and just have to keep expanding to keep it going.


Edited by A.k.a (06/16/20 05:42 PM)


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26749679 - 06/16/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Are you sure you’re not thinking of a variety/trait is considered stable after seven generations from spore?

It’s been a while since I read the rusty white thread I need to brush up on my mushroom genealogy.



Hmm I really couldn't tell you haha, I think it makes more sense that it'd be 7 generations of clone, but it might be clone>ms>clone>ms selecting traits 7x? But could also just be ms>ms>ms>ms selecting a certain trait each time? I dunno I'm just a hobby mycologist, I'd also have to do some learnin' to confirm!


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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed]
    #26749687 - 06/16/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Spore>grow>clone>grow>spore is the method I think


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26749747 - 06/16/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, both make sense in my head but I think going to spore each time and selecting the traits would make more sense since you're letting a bit of drift occurre then selecting specific parts of the drift.

Sucks these won't be able to do that since they're not making spores...As far as I can tell at least! I might need to get access to a desktop microscope and check gills...


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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed]
    #26749760 - 06/16/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Look sporeless to me. Cool make some slants of that variety.


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26750005 - 06/16/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Look sporeless to me. Cool make some slants of that variety.



I gotta get test toobs, I've got agar sittin' in storage...


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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed] * 1
    #26750013 - 06/16/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey man you did microscope work earlier. Can you drop a cap on a slide and after 10-20 mins hit it with a dye to see if it is sporeless or clear spores?


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26751120 - 06/17/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I read the beginning yes: still not dealing with individual strains broseefus... I postulate that even a seemingly monostrain culture is subject to random genetic mutation and displaying/unpacking new sectors after several transfers of no sectoring at all... if you've never seen sectors, its bc you've got a LONG way to go... Its VERY difficult, I'd argue IMPOSSIBLE  to isolate a single strain without proper equipment and spore segregation ... wasnt trying to step on your toes or frazzled you, just giving you the proper terminology to use so everyone knows what your dealing with

Push them further just to be sure... you can clone clones and isolate in this fashion as well... requires stellar technique not to lose it, but always keep a cold stored master of the last known/desired performer

If it drops clear spores, it'd likely be full albino

It is possible for 2 biopsies from the same fruit to perform differently, ie giving me the impression that they're different genetics :shrug:


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Edited by Caps McGee (06/17/20 09:24 AM)


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26751356 - 06/17/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Hey man you did microscope work earlier. Can you drop a cap on a slide and after 10-20 mins hit it with a dye to see if it is sporeless or clear spores?



Unfortunately that wasn't a microscope it was just my 60-90x loupe that I use for scoping my weed trichomes :frown: I might have access to a lab table microscope,  just need to talk to some people and see if I can borrow one.


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed]
    #26754026 - 06/18/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)


These look crazy dry, caps lighten up a bit, gills and caps bruise blue as they dry. Givin' em a bioassay this weekend!


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OfflineB21
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed] * 1
    #26754591 - 06/18/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Dude is always somewhere hating.. This is a cool ass thread Justweed. Sporeless shrooms are cool asf. I like to let them overgrow because I think they look cool with the gills all out n shit. Your fruits look good my friend


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: B21] * 1
    #26754733 - 06/18/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If they're growing fungus, they are not dry enough: period...

I dont have room in my heart for hatred... I'm spreading knowledge and fighting misinformation brotato, if it rubs against your preconceptions, your sources are likely outdated... I apologize if I've come across insulting, all my posts are heart driven and come from a place of love sporeless shrooms ARE cool af: I merely suggest running proper tests to make sure it's just not a late dumper... it happens a lot with B+ specifically... but, take it how you shall... they have colored caps so if it doesnt produce them when given ample time to do so, then they're indeed sporeless, not albino as the title of the thread suggests... sporeless are cool, but they must be kept clean for obvious reasons; no way to propagate from spore print... I suggest a culture in cold storage, either a slant changed every 6 months, or a plate every 3 months...

Sorry if I'm too direct for your tastes, or if I'm a stickler for proper content and etiquette... thus is a place of scientific study, not of egocentricity, I could care less about being right, and rather only want to spread proper information... calling varieties strains is a common occurence, but it's still incorrect terminology: everytime... I dont correct to put some sort if feather in my hat, and it's of no consequence to me or my grows if anyone listens to a word I type... I  regularly read into the subject and have been doing so for a few years now: I run a successful gourmet farm fulltime, and I like helping others grow mushrooms to the best of their ability... that's why I'm here, not to hold hands and support misconception


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26754753 - 06/18/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Some of those in the dry handful look turnt up enough to have sporelated, but may have curled up with dehydration... you're doing the wifi thing or something? Or is that someone else entirely?


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26754916 - 06/18/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
If they're growing fungus, they are not dry enough: period...




Hm? I don't have anything growin' fungus except my tubs and I don't want those to be dry :P

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Some of those in the dry handful look turnt up enough to have sporelated, but may have curled up with dehydration... you're doing the wifi thing or something? Or is that someone else entirely?



These were plenty plenty matured, caps turned up, and some caps even split. I even left a baby on the sub for the last 2 days and it opened up completely, flipped up, no spores.

I need to work on agar stuff, I have not done much with agar and I don't have a good air box or a flowhood and I'm pretty lazy when it comes to crafting...


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Albino B+, the start of something interesting? [Re: Justweed]
    #26782417 - 06/25/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Just ordered a nice little table top microscope so I can check some gills! Also 2nd flush is coming in, about as regular as a normal B+ flush with me, we'll see if we get spores on those ones or if it's just a first flush trait...Fingers crossed right?


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