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InvisiblePinkerton
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What Jesus went through...
    #26748961 - 06/16/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Seems pretty easy. He had direct contact with God and knew heaven awaited him.

I've certainly been through rougher stuff. Just sayin'.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26748977 - 06/16/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

How’s it going right now?


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26749084 - 06/16/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for asking. Things are not that good. :shrug:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26749129 - 06/16/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Sometimes the weather’s awful, isn’t it?  What will you make of it though?


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26750050 - 06/16/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hold on...rougher stuff than Crucifixion? That would be horribly painful...and the torture he underwent before that? I would be interested to hear about your "rougher stuff". Evan if I knew I would survive...I would still run away as fast as possible...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26750131 - 06/16/20 09:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hyperbole of course. Maybe you've never read anything historical about crucifixion or floggings with a Roman flagrum. :eek: Whatever you're going through, you're still alive to talk about it. Roman crucifixion was invariably fatal and floggings often were too.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26750423 - 06/17/20 01:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I thought he went into a cave with the Essenes..?


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26753172 - 06/18/20 01:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Hold on...rougher stuff than Crucifixion? That would be horribly painful...and the torture he underwent before that? I would be interested to hear about your "rougher stuff". Evan if I knew I would survive...I would still run away as fast as possible...




No doubt Crucifixion would be unbearably painful and horrendously awful but relatively speaking it was over pretty quickly. Compare this to people who live entire lives of torture, chronic illness, abuse, slavery, imprisonment, mental illness, etc. Furthermore, Jesus had the courage and resolve to undergo it willingly, so he must have been mentally strong, which is a blessing. All in all, it seems like he had a pretty interesting and exciting life. Again, compare this to people who have horrible lives with little to no redeeming features, people whom no one even cares about or remembers, people who made the wrong choices and suffered in vain. Jesus's deal seems pretty sweet in comparison. Take me for example. I would gladly choose crucifixtion over going through what I've been through again.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (06/18/20 01:41 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26753194 - 06/18/20 01:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You can 'believe' or create any kind of scenario you want. There are all kinds of fanciful tales about the so-called lost years of Jesus. The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ was my firs exposure to such literature but it was all fiction. In seminary and after I read the Jewish Pseudepigryphal and Christian Apocryphal writings. In the 1970s there were all kinds of bogus gospels in bookstores. Jesus was here to teach celebration, not asceticism. That said, the Essenes were a very rigid, restrictive ascetical lifestyle and would've been the opposite of Jesus. John the Baptist was an ascetic and his lifestyle was superseded by Jesus much like Siddhartha Gautama rejected strict asceticism for the Middle Way.

If anything, I'd 'like' to see Jesus as a member of the Therapeutae which admitted women as well as men and were about healing, but only because I'm a therapist myself. It is just as fanciful a notion since there is no historical, archeological evidence to support any historical facts about Jesus at all. I do not deny his historical existence nor can I affirm it, but that is not to say that I do not regard him as the paradigm for human development. (IF Buddha abstained from eating animals then I regard this morally superior to a meat-eating Jesus, but again there is no evidence either way).

The Gospels are Jewish midrash and midrash was never a scientific or journalistically accurate rendering of historical events. Midrash was story-telling with a spiritual message. If, for example, someone reads "Thous shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" in Exodus 23:19 as a divinely ordained prohibition against food combining instead of a moral allegory about empathy and  compassion than the reader is too concrete-minded, too stupid, and too lacking for any spirituality to be learned! This particular command turned into the moronic rabbinical order for observant Jews not to eat cheeseburgers! :mad2: AS IF it was about not eating dairy with meat by divine command! Just think of taking a baby goat, lamb, or any mammal from its mother! THAT alone is heinous to me but slaughtering it and boiling it in milk from the teats of its mother SHOULD elicit empathy, mercy, and compassion from any normal, decent human being.

People trying to conform themselves to rules of two millennia ago whether Jewish or Christian, instead of discerning the lesson from these stories are delusional and dangerous when they acquire political power and try to force the rest of us into some regressive, repressive, and oppressive theocracy whether the Christian Right in the USA, the Taliban, or Jewish Orthodoxy. Fuck 'em for Freedom's sake.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26753781 - 06/18/20 09:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Amen.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26753957 - 06/18/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Thanks for asking. Things are not that good. :shrug:





You should try being stalked online for real torture.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #26754024 - 06/18/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Fuck you, you're an evil man. A horrible piece of shit. You have me in ruins. But I cant help it, I like to think I fucking love you DEEEPLY behind it all.

Which is it then, Orgy?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26754116 - 06/18/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Stop projecting and get a mirror. The evilness you see is totally within you, not in some internet stranger you have glommed onto for reasons unknown.

Have you no agency or personal responsibility whatsoever?


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #26754146 - 06/18/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Jestering now.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26756004 - 06/19/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I was Jesus.. i decided to go into exile..

I went for ten years.. offering my spirituality into barter.com

I offered everything I had in rewarded to the knowledge of the highest attainment.. WHICH IS ALIGNMENT WITH THE HIGHEST AND MOST OF ALL THING..

The final atonment is:

1 recognizing what you are..

2:putting that thing inligne with atonment of the micro within the macro..

Specific perspective is either one of specific depth (the subjective self at its various depths..

Vs the perfect objective way, the life and the love.. so that even the least thing is in line!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #26758898 - 06/20/20 01:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Orgone...I'm still alive....


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton]
    #27366033 - 06/28/21 09:22 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Seems pretty easy. He had direct contact with God and knew heaven awaited him.

I've certainly been through rougher stuff. Just sayin'.




Not too sure I've been through worse after all. I'm not that hardcore... No need to test me.


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #27366892 - 06/28/21 10:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Most of us think that whatever pain we are suffering is surely the most awful thing that anyone who has ever lived has ever suffered.

There are multiple Roman historians and official Roman civil records which comment on Jesus of Nazareth, as well as Jewish historians such as Josephus and the Jewish sages. These particular historical commentators were not his followers in any way, shape, or form. One may not like Jesus, but he lived and made quite a stir and there is a lot of historical documentation to that effect.

I have never been whipped with a Roman scourge, but so far as being crucified... I stepped on a nail once. It was nowhere near being crucified but wow it really sucked. Lots of nerve endings in the hands and feet! I believe the process being nailed up (stripped naked) eventually resulted in great difficulty in breathing, as bones came out of joint and as the body was stretched, the condemned had to pull himself up to take in a breath. I take it that pulling yourself up with arms and feet meant pulling against nails to the point of exhaustion and suffocation. In the case of someone who had "blood and water" flowing from a puncture wound from a Roman soldier on the ground below, that meant they would have had to puncture the myocardial sac, which had filled up with fluid making it harder and harder for the heart to pump blood eventually leading to death.

While it really sucked as a way to die, I don't think the point is that "THIS IS THE WORST THING THAT COULD EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE." Otherwise they would have involved a 100-day torture fest including scorpions, razors, salt, disembowelment, castration by blunt trauma, on and on and on.

I think if Christ lived today he would piss off so many Christians and top brass government officials that they would give him the electric chair. The point wasn't some sort of magic in the type of execution he got. The point to Christianity is that God himself became a man, then turned himself over to the people he created to be offered up as a sacrifice, to take the punishment that they deserved, so that they can get off scott free. Its a message: "Hey you, drunk guy in the bar sitting next to me by the prostitute, I went to the electric chair for you, because I love you and you have intrinsic worth and meaning because I made you." But,... also to say, "Oh hey well-behaved and well-respected leaders of organized religion,... you guys are all a bunch of A-holes and you're going to burn in hell."

Anyone watching that series "The Chosen"? Its a fictional docu-drama, but I think they capture the historical context of Jesus of Nazareth very well. Highly recommended! It's bumped out Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit now as my #1 favorite series ever.


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"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27367132 - 06/29/21 06:45 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I'd also say that suffering is subjective to the experience of the suffering person. So its probably kinda inherent that each of us perceives our suffering as being worse than ever.

Are some people suffering more than crucifixion? Well, from their perspective, sure. The popularity of suicide seems to suggest that some suffering is worse than death.

But I don't question anyone's suffering.

This is not a rhetorical question-- Isn't that one of the foundational points of Buddhism? "Life is suffering."

My brothers and I used to play a game that de facto demonstrated that suffering is highly subjective. We would quantify, in terms of dollars, the degree of suffering involved with various activities. It usually ended with betting and doing very stupid things.

One time my father joined in the game. It was an icy cold day, with a painful winter wind that stung the skin like the sting of a whip. We were commenting about how it was so horrible, and someone asked, "How much would it take to stand outside in that wind, buck nekked, and have a bucket of water poured on you and then stand there for one minute?" My brothers agreed that they would do it for $100. My dad disagreed and said he would front the cash to prove it. A lot of laughter and screaming followed, and they both won their hundred bucks. :smile:


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: What Jesus went through... [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #27368394 - 06/29/21 11:30 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Is Jesus alone?

No he is with us regardless of if we are good or evil..

He will be with us and we will all be happy..

Noone is born alone.. except Adam who found his soul on Ayahusca. The vine of the soul did verily tell me that I am a master hand..

Pointing to the pixelation of the sands of time.

Each pixel is an atom..molecular structure of carbon the grey and white


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