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Offlineslender_fungus
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Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time?
    #26747873 - 06/15/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

hi all-
i am so heartbroken, i found what i think is trich in my first monotub tonight and it seems that there's no way yo save it now based on my research. big fat fucking bummer.
i bought great quality spores, and injection port grain bags and "boom bags" of sterilized substrate from North Spore. I followed their monotub video tutorial to the letter, though i used a different brand of coco coir than they did.
every step took much longer because of the temperatures i was working with (the first grain bag took 10 weeks) and my cambodian was ready weeks before my b+. other than the extended time frame, everything went exactly as the video predicted until about one week after i added the casing - no contamination i could see at any stage.
last night i noticed a small, non-fuzzy bluish patch that i prayed was bruising, since the casing is more than half colonized with mycelium at this point. tonight i found two other areas that are slightly bluish, so i sprayed the areas with some h2o2 and i think there was slight fizzing as if it is trich, but honestly it's hard to tell on a spiky hydrophobic surface...
si whether i can save this tub or not, and i'm assuming not, how do i "troubleshoot" this? my b+ tub should be ready for casing in a week or so. i don't know if the coco coir was contaminated, or if it's from leaving the lid ajar for more o2 access.
i feel pretty defeated after 3 months of buildup and patience to have it crash days away from pins. any suggestions or ideas about what to do differently would be much appreciated.


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26747882 - 06/15/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Study agar. Dont shoot spores directly to your grains next time.

You want pure, clean culture grain spawns to spawn with.


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26747885 - 06/15/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It definitely wasn't caused by opening the lid of the fruiting chamber, and it's highly unlikely that the coir is the problem.

Can you upload photos and post them in the thread? Well-lit photos with the lid off


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus] * 1
    #26747888 - 06/15/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

slender_fungus said:
i bought great quality spores, and injection port grain bags and "boom bags" of sterilized substrate from North Spore.




See, that's 3months worth of your time.

Make some agar bro. No kidding. It will save you lots of time and heartaches..


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..


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OfflineLu-Kthu
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26747921 - 06/15/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Don't really know what tools/methods you have access to.  But at the bare minimum If you're going to shoot into grains sterilize in a PC and then shoot 1 ml or under into several different bags.  It'll optimize your chances, but like the others have said, agar is the best way to go.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Lu-Kthu]
    #26747980 - 06/15/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Even the highest quality spores may have a hidden contam. For colonization, the myc needs a headstart to fight against other fucks. If myc has colonized, it`s very strong. But every little contam will weaken this process, which you can see on agar. We (nearly) all start from agar to transfer healthy myc finally, it`s easy to do :wink:


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26748380 - 06/16/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for all the feedback, bummed as i was hoping to start microdosing again soon but looks like that is on hold.

here are the requested pictures, thanks for your interest and support.

https://imgur.com/a/fIMSq4g


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26748404 - 06/16/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Better embed your pictures here next time, most won`t click on foreign links.

So yes, that`s fucked my friend, but perhaps you`ll get some fruits out.
Trich will spread out fast, you`ll see it then...
Looks as your bulk isn`t mixed up very well, and you also want to flat it out more a little bit.
It`s hard to fuck up with coir, that`s definitely bad spawn.
Don`t give up, give yourself a break, and start up with agar next time.

You`ll make it! :wink:


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Edited by Goatrider (06/16/20 07:43 AM)


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26748508 - 06/16/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thanks, goatrider. i appreciate all the input.

will UV light kill the contamination? and if it fruits, how do i determine of they're safe?

and with this monotub i just mixed with substrate, it sounds like there's nothing different i need to do? contamination happens with the grain bag, or at least before the mycelium is well established?


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26748579 - 06/16/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Don`t know about that UV light thing, but light wouldn`t penetrate much past the surface. It will also penetrate your myc, so...

Your mix is right, just spawn with coir. I didn`t read you were casing.

Fruits are safe, unless they grow on a pile of trich, and look like shit.
They don`t soak up toxic. Have a look at it. If that colour moves on, then forget it.

Perhaps the grain sterilization failed, or the spores had contam. You would have seen it in the bag also, if you kept it lying for one more week.

So after all, the more i look at the picture, the more it looks like bruising. I can`t exactly see the moisture of the surface, it may be a bit dry, speaks for bruising. Can you see little water drops on the surface?


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26748696 - 06/16/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

i was able to see moisture saturation in the coir, obviously, and a bit of moisture on the mycelium. i want to believe it's bruising, but can't think of how i could have caused that as i am pretty gentle with the tub aside from taking it down off the top shelf to spritz each night.

per some discussions in other threads here i spritzed it with h2o2 and looked for fizzing to confirm contamination - but the blue area is low profile and the mycelium is so irregular i couldn't really tell whether it fizzed much...


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26748762 - 06/16/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Be careful with H2O2, it's useless on trich, and hurts mycelium. H2O2 is fine for cobweb. I believe UVC-light kills mold, but also myc...
I never had trich before the first flush, but once i get some, i'd pour salt on to slow it down a bit.

Usually trich colour is shiny white (brighter than myc) in the beginning, after sporulation it gets colour, then it's all over.
If there wouldn't be a liner, you may inspect the bottom of your tub, it's often green there first.

So in your case, if it's trich, it has sporulated and will expand in a few hours.


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Edited by Goatrider (06/16/20 11:58 AM)


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26748829 - 06/16/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think H2O2 attacks fungi... that's the whole reason it is even an option in mycology.


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Edited by AtmozFear (06/16/20 12:11 PM)


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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: AtmozFear]
    #26748893 - 06/16/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Of course it's a benefit in mycology, but in that case peroxide won't help


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26748897 - 06/16/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: AtmozFear]
    #26749150 - 06/16/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thanks again, goatider. i know there are as many opinions as assholes, but i turned to the h2o2 after seeing it discussed in a few threads - both as a treatment but more so as a diagnostic tool to distinguish bruising from trich as bruising would not result in bubbling / fizzing.

the patch showed up more than 48 hours ago now and doesn't seem to have spread, so if your statement is true about the timing perhaps i'm okay.

i put it direct sunlight for about 20 minutes making sure the temp didn't get much about 100F inside, and nuked the green area with a magnifying glass. i will follow up in a few days if anything noteworthy happens.

again, so grateful for everyone's feedback and support.


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26749247 - 06/16/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It's hard to tell what's going on with that tub but it's not looking healthy. That stuff doesnt look exactly like trich and peroxide will hurt your mycelium so it's probably freaking out from that as well.

There's a lot of crazy info out there, especially in older threads.

Like someone said above, spores straight to grain is always a gamble since you can't see whats in the syringe and the mushrooms they get spores from grow in open air.

Besides that when something is sterilized that doesn't always mean 100% of everything is dead. Maybe 99% (just a number) so the longer the whole operation takes, the worse your chances of success. It's kind of a race. Spores to grain jar is risky, spores to a grain bag with 3-4 qts of grain is much more risky because its going to take a lot longer and that tiny percentage (or maybe even larger percentage if something was messed up) of bad stuff has a lot more time to grow.

When you germinate spores on agar first you can see whats growing and transfer clean cube mycelium to your grains, and since the myc is already growing it will hit the ground running and have a much better chance of doing its thing.

Companies that sell this stuff like to make it seems like it's as easy as inject something in this hole and wait. Technically it can work and does sometimes, but this is a slow hobby so it sucks waiting 1,2,3 months just to find out it's not going to work.


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OfflineT666NY
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26749585 - 06/16/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

As Pablo said; study agar. It will colonize faster since you’re isolating genetics, rather than shooting a Multi-spore syringe into a grain bag. Many different outcomes that way.


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: T666NY]
    #26749950 - 06/16/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thanks, roger and t666ny. as someone pointed out in another thread somewhere, north spore's monotub tutorial is for oyster which is much faster and easier to grow.

i guess i start learning over again about agar tomorrow! i appreciate the guidance, all, and as i said will report back if anything interesting happens with either of my tubs.


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OfflineDTH
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26750044 - 06/16/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.

I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?


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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
    #26750348 - 06/17/20 12:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DTH said:
Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.

I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?




I used the search function:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162

Cooking coir may result in faster colonization perhaps, but most here won`t do this, cause when going bulk, it´s too much time and work, and it`s not necessary.

I never do any real casing, just a little top layer at spawning, to cover exposed grains. Lots of info in the search function besides :wink:

The first thing to notice contams is syringe on agar, as mentioned few posts above.

Contams may hide at the top of your jar (or bags), without showing up yet. They just wait to go for bulk sometimes, and then it`s done :wink:
If it´s in the grains due to sterilization failures, you`ll see it soon.
That is the hardest part, work as clean as possible while inoculating grains, and first start from agar.
If you master that steps, it`s hard to fuck up with clean spawn :wink:


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Edited by Goatrider (06/17/20 12:20 AM)


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26750909 - 06/17/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Sometimes you will catch contams in the jar but sometimes they’re just a bit of white mycelium mixed in with all the other white myc. Then it slowly grows while colonizing the bulk and right around pin time the nastiness shows itself.

Other contams completely destroy your spawn jar and it becomes a gelatinous mess or it explodes in bright colors. There’s a lot of different stuff out there.


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26751922 - 06/17/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

hi dth.

in the north spore video they indicated once the mycelium had spread throughout the substrate and "bricked," pulling away from the tub side, it was time for casing. he does mention that he can see some pins but doesn't present that as a requirement for the casing step, at least not in my interpretation.

i am as confident as i can be that my bag was uncontaminated, so if my tub is bad it's either some shit i got in there while adding the casing or the casing itself. they do not suggest sterilizing it in the north spore video. from everything i've read if you get to that point the mycelium should be healthy enough that it will be resistant to junk. i had a friend doing this in parallel to me, and when he cracked open his grain bag there was green shit in there.

my spots are not spreading, so i am hopeful they are simply bruising.

good luck to you, man!


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OfflineT666NY
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26752098 - 06/17/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Trust me agar may seem intimidating at first but once you have some knowledge under your belt; It'll be fun! You'll learn tons about how mycelium grows.


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Offlinelefty24
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: T666NY]
    #26752188 - 06/17/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

YOU CAN GROW FROM SPORES JUST FINE.

Seriously though, he's a beginner with no flowhood. Someone should tell him to learn agar again so he can feel even more lost.

OP the bags you bought were sterilized by another person. Thats room for error.

I recommend you make brown rice flour jars and try a pf tek out. It's fool proof and all you need is a pressure cooker. I RARELY ever get contams and I use no flowhood or glovebox.

Whatever you do, the most vital part is pressure cooking everything. For all you know the guy who sold it filled his PC too much or ran it short or water etc.. You really have no idea.

You need to do these steps your self or you'll never know why you contam (and really, contamination just is a mostly non issue if you use a pressure cooker and follow guidelines when spawning and working.


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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: lefty24]
    #26752292 - 06/17/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lefty24 said:
YOU CAN GROW FROM SPORES JUST FINE.

Seriously though, he's a beginner with no flowhood. Someone should tell him to learn agar again so he can feel even more lost.

OP the bags you bought were sterilized by another person. Thats room for error.

I recommend you make brown rice flour jars and try a pf tek out. It's fool proof and all you need is a pressure cooker. I RARELY ever get contams and I use no flowhood or glovebox.

Whatever you do, the most vital part is pressure cooking everything. For all you know the guy who sold it filled his PC too much or ran it short or water etc.. You really have no idea.

You need to do these steps your self or you'll never know why you contam (and really, contamination just is a mostly non issue if you use a pressure cooker and follow guidelines when spawning and working.





You DONT NEED A FLOWHOOD to work with agar.

You only need a big-ass tote to make a still-air-box to work with agar properly just fine.

If you keep shooting spores in lbs and lbs of grains then you will end up doing the same mistakes over and over again.


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26752293 - 06/17/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know if your spawn bag was contaminated or not, op, but I do know that, in general, spawn can be contaminated even if it appears to be clean upon spawning, especially if you don't have much, if any, experience. Confidence doesn't always correlate with truth. If you continue in this hobby, you'll learn that sometimes, even if your spawn seemed perfectly clean, the best explanation will still be that it was in fact contaminated


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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
    #26752298 - 06/17/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You dont even need a pressure cooker to sterilize pf cakes(brf cakes)


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..


Edited by pablokabute (06/17/20 10:09 PM)


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
    #26752338 - 06/17/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Trich will make the myc look sickly and wet, then it gets covered with grandular white mycelium that turns green, one kind has dark emerald green spores, and the other has a avacado flesh green spore. Both tend to attack the grain spawn first then grow into the substrate. You can make a trich resistant strain by cloning mushrooms that grew well in a trich infected substrate. Use the base or stem core of ones that drop lots of spores as your clone source tissue. Good luck on your grow.😃


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OfflineDTH
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26752768 - 06/17/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Goatrider said:
Quote:

DTH said:
Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.

I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?




I used the search function:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162

Cooking coir may result in faster colonization perhaps, but most here won`t do this, cause when going bulk, it´s too much time and work, and it`s not necessary.

I never do any real casing, just a little top layer at spawning, to cover exposed grains. Lots of info in the search function besides :wink:

The first thing to notice contams is syringe on agar, as mentioned few posts above.

Contams may hide at the top of your jar (or bags), without showing up yet. They just wait to go for bulk sometimes, and then it`s done :wink:
If it´s in the grains due to sterilization failures, you`ll see it soon.
That is the hardest part, work as clean as possible while inoculating grains, and first start from agar.
If you master that steps, it`s hard to fuck up with clean spawn :wink:




Sorry for not searching beforehand, didnt know how strict the forum might be. OP and I are using the same tek so I figured it would be ok. Thought we could add some opinions to the discussion because there is so much info out there, even with the top cultivators differing in their opinions. Thanks for the info! I hope to build a glovebox and, now, get into agar as well.
Quote:

slender_fungus said:
hi dth.

in the north spore video they indicated once the mycelium had spread throughout the substrate and "bricked," pulling away from the tub side, it was time for casing. he does mention that he can see some pins but doesn't present that as a requirement for the casing step, at least not in my interpretation.

i am as confident as i can be that my bag was uncontaminated, so if my tub is bad it's either some shit i got in there while adding the casing or the casing itself. they do not suggest sterilizing it in the north spore video. from everything i've read if you get to that point the mycelium should be healthy enough that it will be resistant to junk. i had a friend doing this in parallel to me, and when he cracked open his grain bag there was green shit in there.

my spots are not spreading, so i am hopeful they are simply bruising.

good luck to you, man!



Ooh! I hope it is just bruising. My grain spawn with Golden Teacher spores is looking good so far. 5 days in and I'm about 15% colonized. I plan to make my own spawn on the next one. I've read millet is great but most have recommended rye berries. Pressure Cooke and glove box are next on the shopping list! I'll be following your posts! Good luck to you as well.


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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
    #26753144 - 06/18/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Glove-boxs are no longer used in this hobby, you need a still-air box.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,396
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
    #26753153 - 06/18/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

@DTH:

Nono, sorry if i sounded a bit harsh, i only wanted to accentuate the power of the search engine  :cookiemonster:

I would tend to a SAB, not a glovebox. (edit:normalperson was faster:grin:)
You want to flame sterilize, and you don`t want to do that into the box, unless you are McGyver :wink:
So you have to move out off your attached gloves to flame outside, and force changes in air pressure and air flow inside.
You want still air, just get a big big tub, melt two armholes with a size that is comfortable to you, and that`s it.
No need in deep science, a SAB is only little physics and good workflow.
You only have to get used to  :cheers:


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OfflineDTH
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Registered: 06/16/20
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26755010 - 06/18/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

normalperson said:
Glove-boxs are no longer used in this hobby, you need a still-air box.



Quote:

Goatrider said:
@DTH:

Nono, sorry if i sounded a bit harsh, i only wanted to accentuate the power of the search engine  :cookiemonster:

I would tend to a SAB, not a glovebox. (edit:normalperson was faster:grin:)
You want to flame sterilize, and you don`t want to do that into the box, unless you are McGyver :wink:
So you have to move out off your attached gloves to flame outside, and force changes in air pressure and air flow inside.
You want still air, just get a big big tub, melt two armholes with a size that is comfortable to you, and that`s it.
No need in deep science, a SAB is only little physics and good workflow.
You only have to get used to  :cheers:



Thank you gentlemen. It seems much of the information I have retained is a bit out of date. I was already advised, in this forum, that layering of the sub and spawn is a past time as well. Still air box it is!


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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
    #26755431 - 06/18/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

wellllll

thanks to all the new contributors to the thread, i appreciate all the input and experience and refuse to be the cause of yet aNOTHer agar-pressure cooker battle!

bad news is the green has been spreading and there are areas that now, even to my inexperienced eyes, are clearly a white mold and not mycelium. however there are also pins, so i intend to let them go and grow and see whether they look relatively clean r not. my plan all along was to encapsulate these, so the next bit of research is on whether my dehydrator gets up past temperatures that would likely kill all the crap - a quick google search indicated 140F will kill trichoderma, so...

i will then harvest my own spores in case these are, indeed, trich-resistant babies.

the entire cake will go on our compost pile with some wet straw and hopefully i'll have a third garden in the yard.

agar next time...

if anyone has comments on the above, including positive outcomes with tossing a grody cake on a compost pile, feel free to chime in!


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 5,159
Loc: rural ghetto
Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
    #26755498 - 06/18/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Harvests from infected tubs are good for consumption so long as the fruits themselves has no visible mold markings..


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

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Offlineslender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
    #26804369 - 07/04/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

tub went in the compost, covered with wet straw - weeks later and no fruit :frown:

as hard as answering the question as to what went wrong so i can learn from it and do better next time is answering why the second tub took the fuck off. this bag i had to inject twice, and it took twice as long for the mycelium to spread, so way more chances for things to wrong.

but the cake is beautiful, the fruit is bountiful, and they put on an inch today alone - can't wait for my first harvest.

now on to learn more about harvesting and drying...

thanks again, all!


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