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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,396
Loc: Germany
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
#26750348 - 06/17/20 12:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DTH said: Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.
I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?
I used the search function: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162
Cooking coir may result in faster colonization perhaps, but most here won`t do this, cause when going bulk, it´s too much time and work, and it`s not necessary.
I never do any real casing, just a little top layer at spawning, to cover exposed grains. Lots of info in the search function besides 
The first thing to notice contams is syringe on agar, as mentioned few posts above.
Contams may hide at the top of your jar (or bags), without showing up yet. They just wait to go for bulk sometimes, and then it`s done  If it´s in the grains due to sterilization failures, you`ll see it soon. That is the hardest part, work as clean as possible while inoculating grains, and first start from agar. If you master that steps, it`s hard to fuck up with clean spawn
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Edited by Goatrider (06/17/20 12:20 AM)
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Roger Clemency
Smile


Registered: 03/23/20
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26750909 - 06/17/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sometimes you will catch contams in the jar but sometimes they’re just a bit of white mycelium mixed in with all the other white myc. Then it slowly grows while colonizing the bulk and right around pin time the nastiness shows itself.
Other contams completely destroy your spawn jar and it becomes a gelatinous mess or it explodes in bright colors. There’s a lot of different stuff out there.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26751922 - 06/17/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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hi dth.
in the north spore video they indicated once the mycelium had spread throughout the substrate and "bricked," pulling away from the tub side, it was time for casing. he does mention that he can see some pins but doesn't present that as a requirement for the casing step, at least not in my interpretation.
i am as confident as i can be that my bag was uncontaminated, so if my tub is bad it's either some shit i got in there while adding the casing or the casing itself. they do not suggest sterilizing it in the north spore video. from everything i've read if you get to that point the mycelium should be healthy enough that it will be resistant to junk. i had a friend doing this in parallel to me, and when he cracked open his grain bag there was green shit in there.
my spots are not spreading, so i am hopeful they are simply bruising.
good luck to you, man!
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T666NY
From Mars


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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26752098 - 06/17/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Trust me agar may seem intimidating at first but once you have some knowledge under your belt; It'll be fun! You'll learn tons about how mycelium grows.
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lefty24
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: T666NY]
#26752188 - 06/17/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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YOU CAN GROW FROM SPORES JUST FINE.
Seriously though, he's a beginner with no flowhood. Someone should tell him to learn agar again so he can feel even more lost.
OP the bags you bought were sterilized by another person. Thats room for error.
I recommend you make brown rice flour jars and try a pf tek out. It's fool proof and all you need is a pressure cooker. I RARELY ever get contams and I use no flowhood or glovebox.
Whatever you do, the most vital part is pressure cooking everything. For all you know the guy who sold it filled his PC too much or ran it short or water etc.. You really have no idea.
You need to do these steps your self or you'll never know why you contam (and really, contamination just is a mostly non issue if you use a pressure cooker and follow guidelines when spawning and working.
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pablokabute
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: lefty24]
#26752292 - 06/17/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lefty24 said: YOU CAN GROW FROM SPORES JUST FINE.
Seriously though, he's a beginner with no flowhood. Someone should tell him to learn agar again so he can feel even more lost.
OP the bags you bought were sterilized by another person. Thats room for error.
I recommend you make brown rice flour jars and try a pf tek out. It's fool proof and all you need is a pressure cooker. I RARELY ever get contams and I use no flowhood or glovebox.
Whatever you do, the most vital part is pressure cooking everything. For all you know the guy who sold it filled his PC too much or ran it short or water etc.. You really have no idea.
You need to do these steps your self or you'll never know why you contam (and really, contamination just is a mostly non issue if you use a pressure cooker and follow guidelines when spawning and working.
You DONT NEED A FLOWHOOD to work with agar.
You only need a big-ass tote to make a still-air-box to work with agar properly just fine.
If you keep shooting spores in lbs and lbs of grains then you will end up doing the same mistakes over and over again.
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Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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Apples in Mono
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Posts: 3,240
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26752293 - 06/17/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know if your spawn bag was contaminated or not, op, but I do know that, in general, spawn can be contaminated even if it appears to be clean upon spawning, especially if you don't have much, if any, experience. Confidence doesn't always correlate with truth. If you continue in this hobby, you'll learn that sometimes, even if your spawn seemed perfectly clean, the best explanation will still be that it was in fact contaminated
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pablokabute
Hari ng Amag



Registered: 11/22/11
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Loc: rural ghetto
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
#26752298 - 06/17/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You dont even need a pressure cooker to sterilize pf cakes(brf cakes)
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Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
Edited by pablokabute (06/17/20 10:09 PM)
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Eywa_devotee
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
#26752338 - 06/17/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Trich will make the myc look sickly and wet, then it gets covered with grandular white mycelium that turns green, one kind has dark emerald green spores, and the other has a avacado flesh green spore. Both tend to attack the grain spawn first then grow into the substrate. You can make a trich resistant strain by cloning mushrooms that grew well in a trich infected substrate. Use the base or stem core of ones that drop lots of spores as your clone source tissue. Good luck on your grow.😃
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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DTH
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26752768 - 06/17/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Goatrider said:
Quote:
DTH said: Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.
I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?
I used the search function: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162
Cooking coir may result in faster colonization perhaps, but most here won`t do this, cause when going bulk, it´s too much time and work, and it`s not necessary.
I never do any real casing, just a little top layer at spawning, to cover exposed grains. Lots of info in the search function besides 
The first thing to notice contams is syringe on agar, as mentioned few posts above.
Contams may hide at the top of your jar (or bags), without showing up yet. They just wait to go for bulk sometimes, and then it`s done  If it´s in the grains due to sterilization failures, you`ll see it soon. That is the hardest part, work as clean as possible while inoculating grains, and first start from agar. If you master that steps, it`s hard to fuck up with clean spawn 
Sorry for not searching beforehand, didnt know how strict the forum might be. OP and I are using the same tek so I figured it would be ok. Thought we could add some opinions to the discussion because there is so much info out there, even with the top cultivators differing in their opinions. Thanks for the info! I hope to build a glovebox and, now, get into agar as well.
Quote:
slender_fungus said: hi dth.
in the north spore video they indicated once the mycelium had spread throughout the substrate and "bricked," pulling away from the tub side, it was time for casing. he does mention that he can see some pins but doesn't present that as a requirement for the casing step, at least not in my interpretation.
i am as confident as i can be that my bag was uncontaminated, so if my tub is bad it's either some shit i got in there while adding the casing or the casing itself. they do not suggest sterilizing it in the north spore video. from everything i've read if you get to that point the mycelium should be healthy enough that it will be resistant to junk. i had a friend doing this in parallel to me, and when he cracked open his grain bag there was green shit in there.
my spots are not spreading, so i am hopeful they are simply bruising.
good luck to you, man!
Ooh! I hope it is just bruising. My grain spawn with Golden Teacher spores is looking good so far. 5 days in and I'm about 15% colonized. I plan to make my own spawn on the next one. I've read millet is great but most have recommended rye berries. Pressure Cooke and glove box are next on the shopping list! I'll be following your posts! Good luck to you as well.
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normalperson
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
#26753144 - 06/18/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Glove-boxs are no longer used in this hobby, you need a still-air box.
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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,396
Loc: Germany
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
#26753153 - 06/18/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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@DTH:
Nono, sorry if i sounded a bit harsh, i only wanted to accentuate the power of the search engine
I would tend to a SAB, not a glovebox. (edit:normalperson was faster ) You want to flame sterilize, and you don`t want to do that into the box, unless you are McGyver  So you have to move out off your attached gloves to flame outside, and force changes in air pressure and air flow inside. You want still air, just get a big big tub, melt two armholes with a size that is comfortable to you, and that`s it. No need in deep science, a SAB is only little physics and good workflow. You only have to get used to
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DTH
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26755010 - 06/18/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
normalperson said: Glove-boxs are no longer used in this hobby, you need a still-air box.
Quote:
Goatrider said: @DTH:
Nono, sorry if i sounded a bit harsh, i only wanted to accentuate the power of the search engine
I would tend to a SAB, not a glovebox. (edit:normalperson was faster ) You want to flame sterilize, and you don`t want to do that into the box, unless you are McGyver  So you have to move out off your attached gloves to flame outside, and force changes in air pressure and air flow inside. You want still air, just get a big big tub, melt two armholes with a size that is comfortable to you, and that`s it. No need in deep science, a SAB is only little physics and good workflow. You only have to get used to 
Thank you gentlemen. It seems much of the information I have retained is a bit out of date. I was already advised, in this forum, that layering of the sub and spawn is a past time as well. Still air box it is!
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slender_fungus
Stranger



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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: DTH]
#26755431 - 06/18/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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wellllll
thanks to all the new contributors to the thread, i appreciate all the input and experience and refuse to be the cause of yet aNOTHer agar-pressure cooker battle!
bad news is the green has been spreading and there are areas that now, even to my inexperienced eyes, are clearly a white mold and not mycelium. however there are also pins, so i intend to let them go and grow and see whether they look relatively clean r not. my plan all along was to encapsulate these, so the next bit of research is on whether my dehydrator gets up past temperatures that would likely kill all the crap - a quick google search indicated 140F will kill trichoderma, so...
i will then harvest my own spores in case these are, indeed, trich-resistant babies.
the entire cake will go on our compost pile with some wet straw and hopefully i'll have a third garden in the yard.
agar next time...
if anyone has comments on the above, including positive outcomes with tossing a grody cake on a compost pile, feel free to chime in!
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pablokabute
Hari ng Amag



Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 5,159
Loc: rural ghetto
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26755498 - 06/18/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Harvests from infected tubs are good for consumption so long as the fruits themselves has no visible mold markings..
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Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: pablokabute]
#26804369 - 07/04/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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tub went in the compost, covered with wet straw - weeks later and no fruit 
as hard as answering the question as to what went wrong so i can learn from it and do better next time is answering why the second tub took the fuck off. this bag i had to inject twice, and it took twice as long for the mycelium to spread, so way more chances for things to wrong.
but the cake is beautiful, the fruit is bountiful, and they put on an inch today alone - can't wait for my first harvest.
now on to learn more about harvesting and drying...
thanks again, all!
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