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slender_fungus
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Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time?
#26747873 - 06/15/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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hi all- i am so heartbroken, i found what i think is trich in my first monotub tonight and it seems that there's no way yo save it now based on my research. big fat fucking bummer. i bought great quality spores, and injection port grain bags and "boom bags" of sterilized substrate from North Spore. I followed their monotub video tutorial to the letter, though i used a different brand of coco coir than they did. every step took much longer because of the temperatures i was working with (the first grain bag took 10 weeks) and my cambodian was ready weeks before my b+. other than the extended time frame, everything went exactly as the video predicted until about one week after i added the casing - no contamination i could see at any stage. last night i noticed a small, non-fuzzy bluish patch that i prayed was bruising, since the casing is more than half colonized with mycelium at this point. tonight i found two other areas that are slightly bluish, so i sprayed the areas with some h2o2 and i think there was slight fizzing as if it is trich, but honestly it's hard to tell on a spiky hydrophobic surface... si whether i can save this tub or not, and i'm assuming not, how do i "troubleshoot" this? my b+ tub should be ready for casing in a week or so. i don't know if the coco coir was contaminated, or if it's from leaving the lid ajar for more o2 access. i feel pretty defeated after 3 months of buildup and patience to have it crash days away from pins. any suggestions or ideas about what to do differently would be much appreciated.
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pablokabute
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26747882 - 06/15/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Study agar. Dont shoot spores directly to your grains next time.
You want pure, clean culture grain spawns to spawn with.
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Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26747885 - 06/15/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It definitely wasn't caused by opening the lid of the fruiting chamber, and it's highly unlikely that the coir is the problem.
Can you upload photos and post them in the thread? Well-lit photos with the lid off
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pablokabute
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus] 1
#26747888 - 06/15/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
slender_fungus said: i bought great quality spores, and injection port grain bags and "boom bags" of sterilized substrate from North Spore.
See, that's 3months worth of your time.
Make some agar bro. No kidding. It will save you lots of time and heartaches..
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Fermented Mushrooms!! --- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1 'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”' "I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST." --Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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Lu-Kthu
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26747921 - 06/15/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't really know what tools/methods you have access to. But at the bare minimum If you're going to shoot into grains sterilize in a PC and then shoot 1 ml or under into several different bags. It'll optimize your chances, but like the others have said, agar is the best way to go.
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Goatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Lu-Kthu]
#26747980 - 06/15/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Even the highest quality spores may have a hidden contam. For colonization, the myc needs a headstart to fight against other fucks. If myc has colonized, it`s very strong. But every little contam will weaken this process, which you can see on agar. We (nearly) all start from agar to transfer healthy myc finally, it`s easy to do
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26748380 - 06/16/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks for all the feedback, bummed as i was hoping to start microdosing again soon but looks like that is on hold.
here are the requested pictures, thanks for your interest and support.
https://imgur.com/a/fIMSq4g
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Goatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26748404 - 06/16/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Better embed your pictures here next time, most won`t click on foreign links.
So yes, that`s fucked my friend, but perhaps you`ll get some fruits out. Trich will spread out fast, you`ll see it then... Looks as your bulk isn`t mixed up very well, and you also want to flat it out more a little bit. It`s hard to fuck up with coir, that`s definitely bad spawn. Don`t give up, give yourself a break, and start up with agar next time.
You`ll make it!
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Edited by Goatrider (06/16/20 07:43 AM)
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26748508 - 06/16/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks, goatrider. i appreciate all the input.
will UV light kill the contamination? and if it fruits, how do i determine of they're safe?
and with this monotub i just mixed with substrate, it sounds like there's nothing different i need to do? contamination happens with the grain bag, or at least before the mycelium is well established?
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Goatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26748579 - 06/16/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don`t know about that UV light thing, but light wouldn`t penetrate much past the surface. It will also penetrate your myc, so...
Your mix is right, just spawn with coir. I didn`t read you were casing.
Fruits are safe, unless they grow on a pile of trich, and look like shit. They don`t soak up toxic. Have a look at it. If that colour moves on, then forget it.
Perhaps the grain sterilization failed, or the spores had contam. You would have seen it in the bag also, if you kept it lying for one more week.
So after all, the more i look at the picture, the more it looks like bruising. I can`t exactly see the moisture of the surface, it may be a bit dry, speaks for bruising. Can you see little water drops on the surface?
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26748696 - 06/16/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i was able to see moisture saturation in the coir, obviously, and a bit of moisture on the mycelium. i want to believe it's bruising, but can't think of how i could have caused that as i am pretty gentle with the tub aside from taking it down off the top shelf to spritz each night.
per some discussions in other threads here i spritzed it with h2o2 and looked for fizzing to confirm contamination - but the blue area is low profile and the mycelium is so irregular i couldn't really tell whether it fizzed much...
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Goatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26748762 - 06/16/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Be careful with H2O2, it's useless on trich, and hurts mycelium. H2O2 is fine for cobweb. I believe UVC-light kills mold, but also myc... I never had trich before the first flush, but once i get some, i'd pour salt on to slow it down a bit.
Usually trich colour is shiny white (brighter than myc) in the beginning, after sporulation it gets colour, then it's all over. If there wouldn't be a liner, you may inspect the bottom of your tub, it's often green there first.
So in your case, if it's trich, it has sporulated and will expand in a few hours.
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Edited by Goatrider (06/16/20 11:58 AM)
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AtmozFear
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26748829 - 06/16/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't think H2O2 attacks fungi... that's the whole reason it is even an option in mycology.
Edited by AtmozFear (06/16/20 12:11 PM)
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Goatrider
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: AtmozFear]
#26748893 - 06/16/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Of course it's a benefit in mycology, but in that case peroxide won't help
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AtmozFear
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Goatrider]
#26748897 - 06/16/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: AtmozFear]
#26749150 - 06/16/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks again, goatider. i know there are as many opinions as assholes, but i turned to the h2o2 after seeing it discussed in a few threads - both as a treatment but more so as a diagnostic tool to distinguish bruising from trich as bruising would not result in bubbling / fizzing.
the patch showed up more than 48 hours ago now and doesn't seem to have spread, so if your statement is true about the timing perhaps i'm okay.
i put it direct sunlight for about 20 minutes making sure the temp didn't get much about 100F inside, and nuked the green area with a magnifying glass. i will follow up in a few days if anything noteworthy happens.
again, so grateful for everyone's feedback and support.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26749247 - 06/16/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's hard to tell what's going on with that tub but it's not looking healthy. That stuff doesnt look exactly like trich and peroxide will hurt your mycelium so it's probably freaking out from that as well.
There's a lot of crazy info out there, especially in older threads.
Like someone said above, spores straight to grain is always a gamble since you can't see whats in the syringe and the mushrooms they get spores from grow in open air.
Besides that when something is sterilized that doesn't always mean 100% of everything is dead. Maybe 99% (just a number) so the longer the whole operation takes, the worse your chances of success. It's kind of a race. Spores to grain jar is risky, spores to a grain bag with 3-4 qts of grain is much more risky because its going to take a lot longer and that tiny percentage (or maybe even larger percentage if something was messed up) of bad stuff has a lot more time to grow.
When you germinate spores on agar first you can see whats growing and transfer clean cube mycelium to your grains, and since the myc is already growing it will hit the ground running and have a much better chance of doing its thing.
Companies that sell this stuff like to make it seems like it's as easy as inject something in this hole and wait. Technically it can work and does sometimes, but this is a slow hobby so it sucks waiting 1,2,3 months just to find out it's not going to work.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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T666NY
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26749585 - 06/16/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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As Pablo said; study agar. It will colonize faster since you’re isolating genetics, rather than shooting a Multi-spore syringe into a grain bag. Many different outcomes that way.
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slender_fungus
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: T666NY]
#26749950 - 06/16/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks, roger and t666ny. as someone pointed out in another thread somewhere, north spore's monotub tutorial is for oyster which is much faster and easier to grow.
i guess i start learning over again about agar tomorrow! i appreciate the guidance, all, and as i said will report back if anything interesting happens with either of my tubs.
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DTH
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Re: Monotub fail - how do i course correct next time? [Re: slender_fungus]
#26750044 - 06/16/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also going for the NorthSpore monotub tek. Is it necessary to pressure cook the casing material (coir)? I also thought that you add the casing material after pins show.
I inoculated 4 days ago and have noticed the first growth of myc. Is it not very likely that (if the spore syringe/grain were "bad") you would have the ability to notice contam well before spawning?
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