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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: PatrickKn] 1
#26738025 - 06/11/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes i agree with that
-------------------- 🐴 hpoo or die
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine] 1
#26740607 - 06/12/20 09:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Tantrika] 1
#26745905 - 06/15/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Isn't that the fucking truth!
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,876
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
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nooneman said: Defunding the police is a stupid idea. It doesn't change anything.
Defunding the police accomplishes nothing, it changes nothing, it will not make policing better nor will it reduce police misconduct or violence.
Agreed.
Really!?...
Ya'll are sounding a bit some narrow minded & boot-licorice not able to think outside the box.
I don't think it's a stupid idea at all...And I do believe it can make drastic changes.
We've taken some of the most pressing/serious social issues and handed them over to pigs to fix with guns, handcuffs, and prison....And you guys don't see anything wrong with that at all? We have "social workers" with guns and handcuffs and you guys can not think of anyway things can be done differently? Fuckin' eh' .
De-funding doesn't mean ending/dismantling police forces entirely. It's shifting around tax $/funds and using $ that would go entirely towards police departments for other programs/methods of dealing with situations where cops/use of force/punishment is not necessary.
There are many ways things can change by shifting tax $/funds away from the police force and into other programs & ways of dealing with certain situations/issues...There are so many situations where someone with a gun and handcuffs is not necessary to be there.
Most cops in this country just don't seem to have the training/education to deal with all the different situations they encounter.






Since Columbine it is said that around 10,000 cops have been placed on school campuses...guess how many school shootings they've stopped? Zero....Guess how many students have been arrested at school for petty offenses, and guess how many of those students are POC...The $ used to pay those officers to be on school campuses can be used in such a better way.
I haven't read the thread yet so I don't know if anyone else has brought up any of these points and I'm a bit scatter-brained at the moment...but I feel it's ridiculous to think that de-funding the police and using those funds for other programs/ways of dealing with various issues/situation will not make any difference.
I have been thinking about this topic for years now, long before the current events of today...I'm too scatter-brained at the moment to go into it all, but there are so many ways things can change and be done differently. I'll try to make my own thread on the topic to try to get all my thoughts and ideas out. Changes need to be made.
Meat heads with guns and handcuffs that tend to be drunk with power is not the only way to deal with all the situations that cops are required to deal with.
-OM
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Edited by openmind (06/15/20 04:43 PM)
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,569
Loc:
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Quote:
split_by_nine said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I'd rather they uhh.. just use the funds to actually help people instead of getting ready to fight them.
I agree. but most police officers are just average people. the money could be better used to pay professionals to organize community wellness programs, especially in impoverished communities where they need it the most.
Most police are not average people. Average people do not seek power over others in the way that being a police office gives someone. Sure, some become a cop with good intentions but the blue code of silence is a very real thing and if you are ratting out bad cops, you aren't going to do very well.
By it's very nature, the job attracts power hungry people and psychopaths, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
Edited by TheStallionMang (06/29/20 09:30 PM)
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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yeah i agree with you. by "average" i meant they dont possess any special skills.
-------------------- 🐴 hpoo or die
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,569
Loc:
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Good point, yes I agree and meant to say something about how it was also an attractive job to psychopaths because it isn't hard at all to become one
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ivy.patterns
Wandering Meat Sack



Registered: 01/26/18
Posts: 36
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period.
-------------------- Take it easy, dude, but take it!
Edited by ivy.patterns (06/15/20 09:48 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 59 minutes, 20 seconds
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Defund the police! is just a protest slogan. If you want, you can choose to interpret it as meaning 'Defund the police! and then do absolutely nothing else' or you can take the time necessary to address the substance behind the slogan.
Defund the police refers to the recognition that our society currently uses police to respond to a wide variety of social issues, coupled with the recognition that armed enforcers are often not the best response to many of these situations.
Defund the police means identifying areas where the methods of modern day policing are actively harmful, and transferring the relevant funds over to more effective methods.
When mentally ill people act in ways that seem erratic to others, we need counselors and advocates, not armed gunmen. When romantic partners and neighbours have conflicts, we need people with conflict resolution and de-escalation skills, not violent escalators enforcing a patriarchal agenda. When kids need traffic directed so they can cross the street, we need friendly elders and neighbours who know them, not people toting lethal weapons who have little experience working with children. When we lose things or find things, we need a community center to exchange them, not a precinct. When our cars break down by the side of the road, we need a community of Good Samaritans, not a mercenary looking to write us a ticket. The majority of what the police do is harmful and should be immediately eliminated to make us all safer; much of the rest could be done much better by skilled, unarmed volunteers of good will.
Defund the police does not mean eliminating the police without filling the void with something different.
The common counterpoint is that it’s naïve to talk about disarming and abolishing the police, citing the aggression and chaos we will supposedly unleash on each other without the violence of the thin blue line to keep us in check. But what’s truly naïve is to continue believing that an institution responsible for widespread violence with impunity is somehow keeping us safe. Collective self-defense will not be easy, but it’s our only hope. Seattle's CHOP became a much safer neighbourhood once the cops were pushed out.
While we’re at it, what about those politicians? If electing new officials can’t stop the police from killing us, what good are they? If we really want to secure our future against the arbitrary power of the authorities, we can’t go half way. As we organize in our neighbourhoods for self-defence and to share and distribute resources, let’s lay the groundwork for a new grassroots form of political organization that can exercise power directly without need for representatives. Inspired by the council system in the Kurdish territories of Rojava, the assemblies of the Greek anarchist movement, the student strikes in Montréal, and many other examples, we can build a new world from the bottom up, without politicians at the top to boss us around.
So what will it take for us to end police violence once and for all? Nothing short of revolution. But that revolution isn’t a distant utopia, or a single spasm in which we storm the Whitehouse. It’s an ongoing process of building relationships, sharing resources, defending ourselves, undoing the interlocking structures of white supremacy, and organizing to meet our needs together without police or politicians - and it’s already happening. It’s time for each and every one of us to choose a side and take a stand. The stakes are high - the life you save might be your own. But as the courageous protestors in Minneapolis and beyond have shown us, not even the power of the police is absolute. Together, we can overcome their violence and build a new world.
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MightyWhite

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 3,610
Last seen: 36 minutes, 3 seconds
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Auntie teefa Shiva
LOL
Hey, come protest in the road for me.
Edited by MightyWhite (06/16/20 06:43 AM)
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: defund the police. [Re: openmind] 1
#26748410 - 06/16/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do agree with what was stated. I also agree with "defunding" in a lot of ways too. If you or anyone else thinks for one second that that power/people/things that are in place right now involving the police force will be given up easily you are sadly mistaken. It will take decades to weed out the families that are ingrained in that lifestyle. It's pretty much like the mafia. It has permeated every facet of life in some way. It's a club and they WILL NOT give up that money supply, power, and status if they can help it.
They'll pass some laws and appease the general public (or put it in print and on the news that they did) and it will continue until the next big blow up over some person(s) death by another cop. The money is too good to dismantle what is in place. It will just morph into another form and keep going. The very rich that profit off of them will not let this happen either. It's a twisted game.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Defund the police! is just a protest slogan. If you want, you can choose to interpret it as meaning 'Defund the police! and then do absolutely nothing else' or you can take the time necessary to address the substance behind the slogan.
Defund the police refers to the recognition that our society currently uses police to respond to a wide variety of social issues, coupled with the recognition that armed enforcers are often not the best response to many of these situations.
Defund the police means identifying areas where the methods of modern day policing are actively harmful, and transferring the relevant funds over to more effective methods.
When mentally ill people act in ways that seem erratic to others, we need counselors and advocates, not armed gunmen. When romantic partners and neighbours have conflicts, we need people with conflict resolution and de-escalation skills, not violent escalators enforcing a patriarchal agenda. When kids need traffic directed so they can cross the street, we need friendly elders and neighbours who know them, not people toting lethal weapons who have little experience working with children. When we lose things or find things, we need a community center to exchange them, not a precinct. When our cars break down by the side of the road, we need a community of Good Samaritans, not a mercenary looking to write us a ticket. The majority of what the police do is harmful and should be immediately eliminated to make us all safer; much of the rest could be done much better by skilled, unarmed volunteers of good will.
Defund the police does not mean eliminating the police without filling the void with something different.
The common counterpoint is that it’s naïve to talk about disarming and abolishing the police, citing the aggression and chaos we will supposedly unleash on each other without the violence of the thin blue line to keep us in check. But what’s truly naïve is to continue believing that an institution responsible for widespread violence with impunity is somehow keeping us safe. Collective self-defense will not be easy, but it’s our only hope. Seattle's CHOP became a much safer neighbourhood once the cops were pushed out.
While we’re at it, what about those politicians? If electing new officials can’t stop the police from killing us, what good are they? If we really want to secure our future against the arbitrary power of the authorities, we can’t go half way. As we organize in our neighbourhoods for self-defence and to share and distribute resources, let’s lay the groundwork for a new grassroots form of political organization that can exercise power directly without need for representatives. Inspired by the council system in the Kurdish territories of Rojava, the assemblies of the Greek anarchist movement, the student strikes in Montréal, and many other examples, we can build a new world from the bottom up, without politicians at the top to boss us around.
So what will it take for us to end police violence once and for all? Nothing short of revolution. But that revolution isn’t a distant utopia, or a single spasm in which we storm the Whitehouse. It’s an ongoing process of building relationships, sharing resources, defending ourselves, undoing the interlocking structures of white supremacy, and organizing to meet our needs together without police or politicians - and it’s already happening. It’s time for each and every one of us to choose a side and take a stand. The stakes are high - the life you save might be your own. But as the courageous protestors in Minneapolis and beyond have shown us, not even the power of the police is absolute. Together, we can overcome their violence and build a new world.
Sounds fantastic! Too bad it's a dream that will be killed and squashed because the powers that be will NEVER let this happen in the USA.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Quote:
MightyWhite said: Auntie teefa Shiva
LOL
Hey, come protest in the road for me.
"I disagree and I'd run you over for it." Way to be the problem everyone else sees...
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 59 minutes, 20 seconds
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: Sounds fantastic! Too bad it's a dream that will be killed and squashed because the powers that be will NEVER let this happen in the USA.
I'm not suggesting we ask. Its power seems inescapable - so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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I'm with you, but we are where we are for now.  Seems like they have made it to where we/the general public can not overthrow/change things as they once could because they learned how to intercept and prevent it now.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 59 minutes, 20 seconds
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What modern adaptations do you feel prevent revolutionary change from happening? Ever consider that type of self-defeating thought to be one of them?
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: What modern adaptations do you feel prevent revolutionary change from happening? Ever consider that type of self-defeating thought to be one of them?
They don't prevent, but student loans tie down the most educated and aware from taking any sort of drastic/revolutionary action because they're financially handcuffed, health insurance based upon employment is another anchor. It seems like the shutdown and current economy is as much a factor in the action we're seeing now as the killing of Floyd himself.
I am more optimistic now than I was in the past though.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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I agree with feevers above statement. Yes, I can be very cynical and jaded, but I am 55yo. I have seen a bit more than some of you, but not as much as some.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 59 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: defund the police. [Re: feevers]
#26748823 - 06/16/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Definitely that makes it challenging, but even slaves have risen up in revolt; I don't think financial debt is an impossible shackle.
Still, it's true that people are more likely to fight for a better world when they aren't worried about losing their basic needs (like food, shelter, and medicine) in the interim, and that's why mutual aid is held up as such an important revolutionary concept by anarchists:
Quote:
Mutual aid is a practice of reciprocal care through which participants in a network make sure that everyone’s needs are met. It is neither a tit-for-tat exchange nor the sort of one-way assistance that a charity organization offers, but a free interchange of assistance and resources. Anarchists believe that communities can meet their needs through mutual aid rather than cutthroat competition for profit.
As the COVID-19 crisis unfolded, communities across the US recognized the need to organize to meet urgent needs collectively. Because anarchists took the initiative in these efforts from the beginning, they came to be known under the banner of mutual aid. Subsequently, even progressive politicians like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called on Americans to form mutual aid initiatives.
The term was originally popularized by the Russian anarchist Peter Kropotkin and spread through international anarchist networks. Kropotkin, a naturalist and biologist, argued in Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902) that it is reciprocity and cooperation, not bloodthirsty competition, that enables species from the smallest microorganisms to human societies to survive and thrive. This challenged the Social Darwinist dogma of “survival of the fittest” that business elites used to justify the exploitation and inequality that accompanied the expansion of global capitalism in the nineteenth century. Kropotkin made a scientific and philosophical case for reorganizing society according to the principles of mutual aid, which he described as “the close dependency of every one’s happiness upon the happiness of all” and “the sense of justice, or equity, which brings the individual to consider the rights of every other individual as equal to his own.” Since Kropotkin’s day, anarchists have consistently put this principle into practice via efforts like Food Not Bombs, Really Really Free Markets, community bail and bond funds, the Common Ground Collective’s work after Hurricane Katrina, Mutual Aid Disaster Relief, and other projects.
Today, COVID-19 relief volunteers and supporters of the Justice for George Floyd protests collaborate to offer free medical care, water, food, and supplies on the streets of Minneapolis, Washington, DC, and around the United States. These efforts draw on the anarchist principle to each according to need, from each according to ability.
It’s no surprise that COVID-19 relief and protest support efforts are intersecting. Due to the racialized disparities in wealth, health care access, and workplace vulnerability, people of color and Black people in particular have suffered disproportionately during the pandemic. Fighting for the principle that Black lives matter means confronting not only police violence but also all the other systems of oppression that have kept so many Black communities impoverished. These community initiatives reflect the anarchist idea that everyone’s health and freedom are interlinked and can best be preserved through solidarity.
Read more: This Is Anarchy - Eight Ways the Black Lives Matter and Justice for George Floyd Uprisings Reflect Anarchist Ideas in Action
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira
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Debt isn't an impossible shackle, but man, it's a really hard one to break.
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<-- Clicky Clicky
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