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topdog82
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How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation?
#26744603 - 06/14/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have been meditating since 2013. I turned to it because I felt I had no other choices and was pretty severely depressed on and off at that phase
The level of benefit I got back from two sitting meditations of 25 minutes per day was huge. Nowdays I find that 6 minutes of mantra chanting and 10 minutes of meditation allows me to get the best bang for my buck. I have a tight schedule and I manage to make the 10 minutes the best 10 minutes. The benefits are beyond words for me. I don't even really know where to begin. And the change occured in the course of maybe 1 month
Why is it that all of my friends don't find such monumental benefits so quickly when they enter the practice? I think that my best guess is that I have OCD and ADHD. It was not diagnosed by my parents brought me to child psychiatrist due to panic attacks and bad organization and they said I met the criteria for those disorders. Obviously normal intelligence but those two disorders were very apparent my whole life. I also had severe depression at the time of starting meditation. I imagine the low point I was at made meditation have a profound resetting and rewiring affect? And lastly I think that some people are more prone to smoking’s physiological effects for example, I think that similarly some people are more physiologically prone to meditation's brain rewiring effects?
Edited by topdog82 (06/14/20 07:21 PM)
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Forrester
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: topdog82] 1
#26745526 - 06/15/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you have to be ready for it.
I wanted to be able to meditate and get the benefits from it my whole life, but never seemed to be able to. I'd try, and just end up getting frustrated that I had so many thoughts and couldn't control my mind at all. "Oh just observe your thoughts" and all that eastern nonsense just pissed me off 
It was only less than a year ago that I tried again and found it completely different this time. I guess I have a different outlook completely than I did at other times in my life, but it's hard to explain exactly what the difference is...
Time, I guess.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: Forrester]
#26745532 - 06/15/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anapanasati & The Jhanas. The following link is the Buddha’s canonical instruction on the aforementioned formal meditation.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN118.html
Tried & True- Unsurpassable.
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topdog82
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26746465 - 06/15/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I get forrester's post. Makes sense. I don't get what blind ass is saying
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The Blind Ass
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: topdog82]
#26746515 - 06/15/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I find a lot of people don’t find benefit because they either don’t know what they are doing, or don’t have clear instructions , or they don’t do it daily. Hence why I linked the tek to the foundational meditation practice as taught by Gotama Buddha - anapanasati . Just like how if you follow the BRF tek to the exact letter - you will get fungi. The same goes with this. You will taste the fruit of meditative practice if you follow the Anapanasati tek to the letter.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (06/15/20 01:08 PM)
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topdog82
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26746558 - 06/15/20 01:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ahhhhh. That makes a lot of sense
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Yellow Pants



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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: topdog82]
#26749141 - 06/16/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with Ass and Forester in that dedication a good chunk of theory goes a long ways. Ime a person may just not be ready to get into it or completely sold that it’s something they want to be about which then explains their lack of focus. Meditation finds you
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26750261 - 06/16/20 10:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yellow pants!
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26750262 - 06/16/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love meditation.. I'm in a state of constant meditation through out the day.. going in and out of the depths of my focus..going to the navel.. or the nostrils..
The very thought of meditation IS meditation!
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Yellow Pants



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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26751473 - 06/17/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wouldn’t the thought of meditation be a passing thought if you were in meditation, unless you were contemplating the meaning of meditation in which case you would be in meditation?
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chajgan
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: Forrester]
#26752615 - 06/17/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you meditate and give yourself a reason for that meditation it is not meditation. It's again in the domain of psychological thought where again you will have a position on meditation and you might fall in the trap and believe different techniques or approaches may help. Meditation is the awareness you create through compassion, love, the will to listen, and to be totally present in the now and using your instincts and senses to learn, critically assess, even chill and feel the moment. To let your brain go for a long walk while your whole being is the new master controller where there is no doubt and division in any sense. I hope this will be of help, meditational techniques are guided thus cannot be the same principle for everybody. It is something that comes when you least expect, either danger or sickness or problems or in love, and it's wonderful but again when you feel it is nothing special because it's there and always will be only in the now.
Look at the teachings of Allan watts and J. Krishnamurti and Ekchart Tolle
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: topdog82]
#26753159 - 06/18/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The very first time I tried meditating was 1967 when I was 14. I quickly gave it up. It wasn't until I was in college and taking Yoga as a 1 credit PE course did I begin to take it seriously. After many years of Yoga meditation, then Christian contemplation, a long hiatus and then some Aro Buddhist meditation I finally came to the conclusion that being Present, being Here & Now, was more important than sitting meditation. In fact, 3 -point sitting meditation (butt + 2 knees) is like riding a tricycle (no wonder the Buddhist magazine by the same name). One doesn't have to keep 'balance' when one is sitting alone at home or self-flagellating doing some 10 day, ten hour-a-day seshin at a zendo. Remaining Present and self-possessed while on-the-go is like riding a bicycle where 'balance' is field-tested in practice. This is what being Here & Now is like. As Bill Murray playing Larry Darrell says in the film The Razor's Edge, "It's easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain."
Taking meditation onto the streets of a big American city, just fielding meditative equipoise in the face of road-rage for example is a better test than how long one can sit still for without falling asleep. But that's just me. I recently purchased a very nice set of Sun & Moon meditation Cosmic Cushion and Zabuton https://www.sagemeditation.com/brands/Sun-%26-Moon-Originals.html but my cat uses it more than I do and I usually end up pulling books from the shelf behind it and reading instead. I'll be entering the Cosmic Void forever but right now is when I can experience multiplicity and form. Separateness is not a bad thing as a human experience as long as there's love with which to transcend it.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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topdog82
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26753517 - 06/18/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I value where you come from. This is why I started with 25 minutes twice per day but moved down to 10 minutes once per day. I think beyond 10 minutes is just a waste for me
As the original post said though, I think that sitting meditation helped rewire my brain in a way that being present wouldn't do. I have to believe that suspending your brain in an alpha brain wave state improves blood flow or rewires your prefrontal cortex. I had diagnosed ADHD and OCD and they both fully recovered within a few months of meditation. I could stop meditation (and did for a year) as an experiment and my prefrontal cortex remains fully functional in a way that it did not before
There is some sort of unique physiological benefit to it that is permanent. And for that I am thankful
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: topdog82]
#26755081 - 06/18/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am glad to hear of long-lasting results. I failed to add that I was in TM™ and in teacher-training for TM™ but dropped out as I was also being influenced by Christian defectors from TM™ who demonstrated ways we were being deceived. I cannot discern what type of permanent change in my psyche might be do to sitting meditation, or to which type of meditation. Most of my history is of a concentrative form so that would be Samatha in Vajrayana parlance. Vipassana is something I do when I am silent and alone which is most of the time, having thoughts and observing them, trying to expand the empty space between thoughts, but then being aware of sensory input. I prefer to keep my eyes slightly open when I do actually sit as it helps with sleepiness.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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saintdextro
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26755525 - 06/18/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Meditation became great once I started to enjoy it, for awhile I would read Buddhist and yogi books for about an hour then meditate for about an hour back and forth all day for almost a year strait, the study and practice was quite successful, I needed both, I've been slacking on my meditation recently but an hour in the morning and again at night is proper for good results, the longer the meditation the more joy comes, it isn't until about 30min. Into it that it becomes really enjoyable, so yea, meditate until you find the joy spot, than you prefer it to other activities, it may take days, weeks, months before you can call it "peaceful bliss", but studying yogic prana and scriptures and Ajahn Brahm has a nice book called Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond. Listen to Ajahn Brahms dhamma talks and sutta studies at bswa dhammaloka website, you might want to practice along with his gentle voice.
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26755583 - 06/18/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey Markos.. know any great mantras?
I like "God" repeated..
Or the long lasting Ommmmm..
And even "Ram"!
Edited by BrendanFlock (06/18/20 08:37 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26756079 - 06/19/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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OM MANI PADME HŪM [The Infinite is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart]
LORD IESOUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME *
*
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26756262 - 06/19/20 03:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are prayers just extensions of mantras?
Or is there an archetypal symbology?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26757842 - 06/19/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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1 Thessalonians 5:17 simply says "Pray without ceasing" and this adjuration is the basis for repetitive prayer in Christianity like the Iesous Prayer I cited. Conversely, in Matthew 6:7 Iesous ostensibly says, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Wikipedia has this analysis about the latter:
"Analysis The term translated as "vain repetitions" is battalogein. This word is unknown outside this verse appearing in none of the contemporary literature. It might be linked to the Greek term for babbling, or it might also be derived from the Hebrew batel, vain. It is often assumed to be a related to the word polugein, and thus a reference to a large quantity of words.
This verse moves away from condemning the hypocrites to condemning the Gentiles. Matthew never makes clear who these Gentiles are, though pagan prayers to Baal and other gods are mentioned in the Old Testament. In Luke's version of this verse, found at Luke 11:2, it is not the Gentiles who are condemned but "the rest of men."
France notes that in this era Gentile prayer was portrayed as repeated incantations that had to be perfectly recited, but where the spirit and understanding of the prayer was secondary. Fowler states that the Jews believed the pagans needed to incessantly repeat their prayers, because their false gods would not answer them. The followers of the true God had no need to repeat their prayers as God would hear them the first time. Schweizer presents an alternate view. He does not feel battalogeo is a reference to repetition, but to nonsense. He argues that the Jews of that era felt that the pagans had forgotten the true name of God, and that their prayers were thus filled with long lists of meaningless words in an attempt to ensure the true name of God would at some point be mentioned.
This verse is not generally seen as a condemnation of repetitive prayer. Jesus himself repeats prayers, such as at Matthew 26:44, and in two verses he gives a prayer to be repeated. Rather this verse is read as a condemnation of rote prayer without understanding of why one is praying. Protestants such as Martin Luther have used this verse to attack Catholic prayer practices such as the use of rosaries."
The Divine Names in Judaism and Christianity are considered sacred which is why the Four letter Name or Tetragrammaton was forbidden to be spoken except by the High Priests on certain occasions. Usually the word Adonai is used, which means LORD. Jewish meditations use the visualization of Divine Names of black fire on a field of white fire, they are not intoned repetitively as are Hindu and Buddhist mantra or Islamic Sufi Dzikir. In Hinduism there is an impersonal aspect of God, Nirguna Brahman which is recognized in certain sects. Mantras are intended to create a union with this impersonal aspect. Even in the Bhagavad- Gita which is pantheistic, pantheism is still a form of theism and Krishna is the "Supreme Personality of the Godhead." However, the Gita still recognizes the impersonalist yogi who does not practice devotional Bhakti Yoga but perhaps Jnana Yoga. They are said to be 'indirectly Krishna-conscious' and they, for example similar to the instructions I posted by Nicephorus the Solitary, turn within themselves in typical concentrative, introverted fashion. Unlike the singing, dancing, tambourine-playing extraverted Bhakti Krishnas, the impersonalist "contemplates the plenary expansion of Vishnu in the Lotus of the Heart."
Repetitive prayer is a form of Contemplative Prayer which is one of several types of prayer. The most commonly thought of prayer is Petitionary Prayer. There is also Prayer of Thanksgiving and Intercessory Prayer for others. Mantras are said to cause changes at a deep psychospiritual level in Hinduism because as with Judaism and some of Christianity's employment of the Name Iesous, spiritual energy is sought through pronunciation. In TM™ the mantras were said to be "meaningless sounds" but that proved to be a lie promulgated on the West. In my later research I came across A Garland of Letters by Sir John Woodruff and these so-called meaningless sounds were in fact the names of spiritual entities. Repetition of their names was supposed to tune one into the "Creative Intelligence," an impersonal reference to God. In Eastern Orthodox Christianity where we find the Iesous Prayer or Prayer of the Heart there is a whole theology of "Uncreated Energy" that one does not find in Western Christianity, In Roman Catholicism (nor in their Byzantine Rite) or in any of Protestantism.
Since God, when considered from a Jungian perspective is equivalent to the Central Archetype of the Collective Unconscious, namely the Self, Divine Names as a particularly numinous specie of words possessing archetypal significance. Symbols are living psychic realities for Jung and so yes there is archetypal symbolic significance. Witness some of the bizarre histrionic behaviors among fervent evangelical Christians being 'slain in the spirit.' They swoon, they shake (like the 'Shaking Quakers'), they produce glossolalia speech, they sometimes fall to the floor and convulse. Now these behaviors are psychological and not indicative of a metaphysical process by the Holy Spirit (another Divine Name, in English however). However, there is a quality of the Numinous* attributed to the Name Iesous (even when mispronounced as Jeee-zus).
* "Numinous (/ˈnjuːmɪnəs/) is a concept derived from the Latin numen meaning "arousing spiritual or religious emotion; mysterious or awe-inspiring".[1] The term was popularized by the German theologian Rudolf Otto in his influential 1917 German book Das Heilige, which appeared in English as The Idea of the Holy in 1923. Otto's concept of the numinous influenced thinkers including Carl Jung, Mircea Eliade, and C. S. Lewis." - Wiki
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/19/20 04:28 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26758983 - 06/20/20 02:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So what is the prime root of meditation..?
The first initiation of meditation going on..
Always floating..
The very thought of meditating..
Meditation in action..
Yin and Yang..
What makes the thought of meditation..?
Im about an M6..or even an M8.9
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26758984 - 06/20/20 02:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you need to be an M15 to have immortality.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26760313 - 06/20/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have zero idea of what you are referring to but it is certainly idiosyncratic, these 'M' numbers. There is no such thing as immortality. That suggests a temporally limited datum is turned into an eternally separate thing. Temporality is temporary. Eternal is Eternal and admits of no parts, no things, no existents. Time and Eternity are radically different ontologically.
Eternal Life in a New Testament context is the Life of Eternity that one enters into but there is no statement of individuality continuing in Eternity. Moreover, Eternity is NOT endless duration. Duration means time, time is created as a dimension of the created universe. Eternity is timeless. It is also incomprehensible by a mind that is characterized by temporal experience through senses, feelings, thoughts and intuitions.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BrendanFlock
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26761921 - 06/21/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can i have a sense of things to come?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26762596 - 06/21/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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To an extent, ie: I know that eating will lead to me to expelling the material that the body doesn’t/can’t use. I can know that after X amount of hours awake I will begin to feel tired & sleepy etc etc.
Seems to me like a question better asked & answers to yourself. In that, the answer need not be sought outside yourself. Or do you mean something else by it altogether?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26765575 - 06/21/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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My single Experience was of an Omnidirectional Perspective of Infinite Transparency (perhaps that's why Buddhists call it the Clear Light) that was simultaneously Pure Identity (the sense of 'I' or "I AM" but no discursive thought) and It was also "Unbearable Compassion." I can only imagine a portion of the expanse now as Omniscience has to be experienced but it cannot be imagined or remembered visually. It was Beautiful and Ultimately Fulfilling. A Timeless Moment. When the Experience ended the Infinite Expanse retracted in an instant to an Infinitesimal Point of "Unbearable Compassion" around which was constellated my Heart and then by body. I understood the meaning of the Great Mantra OM MANI PADME HUM as The Infinite is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. I understood Lama Govinda's explanation of the complementarity of the Experiences of OM and HUM where in OM the finite mind dissolves into the Infinite and in HUM the Infinite comes to indwell the tabernacle of the Heart. I remembered Bernini's sculpture of St. Teresa in ecstasy as an arrow of Agapé pierces her Heart. But in the first stage there was no personal ego, no Mark[os], no thoughts, no sensations, no memories, just Infinite Clear Light Compassionate Being. I cannot know if this was Asamprajnata Samadhi or Nirvikalpa Samadhi or Sat Chit Ananda or Nirvana or The Beatific Vision. But my immediate impression was that It was what we are in Reality when the illusion of separate identity vanishes in mystical or actual death. It is God returning to God Who remembers that [S]He was never Mark[os] but was playing peek-a-boo with Him-Herself through my individual identity. That Experience was December 1974. I can only hope that It was akin to what a decent human being enters into.
"Never shall yearnings torture, nor sins Stain him, nor ache of earthly joys and woes Invade his safe eternal peace, nor deaths And Lives recur. He goes Unto Nirvana! He is one with life Yet lives not. He is blest, ceasing to be. Om, Mani Padme, Om! the Dewdrop slips Int the shining sea." - from The Light of Asia by Sir Edwin Arnold
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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The Blind Ass
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Re: How come others don't seem to get as much from meditation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#26773866 - 06/22/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Meditation as a means for generating the inner awakening required for liberation becomes finer and finer by means of the higher discriminatory thought processes and mental environments burning themselves and the hindrances & barriers that they counter until a clean & clear reflection is thereby made possible. The Jhanas are a perfect example of how more initial fabrication leads to less & less fabrication the finer and finer & more- until as near possible to absolute emptiness remains - by a means of balancing both sides of the equation.. Progressing through mundane & supra-mundane stages - the higher/finer one progresses the more fabrication drops away. This is the burning up of, or dropping away of body & mind.
The attainment of any jhana comes about through a twofold process of development. On one side the states obstructive to it, called its factors of abandonment, have to be eliminated, &on the other - the states composing it, called its factors of possession, have to be acquired.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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