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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26742869 - 06/13/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not a Christian but I've read the Bible and I know but no where in the Bible does it say thou shall follow the laws of the United States of America no matter how stupid. You can be an Evangelical Christian and eat mushrooms....I come from an Evangelical Christian background and other than the fact that they said it was bad because it's illegal I can't think of any reason and never saw one written. As far as the therapeutic benefits...as an evangelical maybe you'll appreciate this colloquialism - brother you're preaching to the choir.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26742955 - 06/13/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I think he knows that he’s preaching to the choir for the most part - and is using this forum as a place to train and flesh out his experiences and ideas in a coherent fashion.  In a way Sort of rebuking what is the ignorantly based conventional belief that psychedelic fungi are inherently bad because they are illegal or contain psychoactive substances - the usual and “timid and normal view” taken by large swaths by Christians in general.  Which is a highly ignorant and presumptuous one at that, largely due to it being taboo for many and thus going largely unexamined.

He’s Kind of boxing his shadow or a previous iteration of the psyche’s reincarnation (< being another time in his life when he held aforementioned beliefs about fungi).  Mind you, I am projecting quite a bit here.  But, I’ll imagine there is some degree of truth to what I’m saying - no matter how small.  These things are nearly impossible to know beyond a shadow of a doubt due to the limits of online discussion.
Anyways, moving on...

I went through a similar thing when I was growing up in my teens.  I think people can go through it at any age once they can more or less think for themselves to some degree.  Dangerously beginning to question the contrivances of ones own conjecture & beliefs & hidden assumptions underlying every and each thought that’s thunk, and every word that’s spoken, and every action that’s taken in ones life.

I did that until coming to the core and all there was there was unknowing, and knowing that I could finally say: this much was true, I really knew nothing, was the beginning of a new sense of morality, discernment, and wisdom in my life.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26743013 - 06/13/20 11:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I know.

I don't think religion is important...its dedication to the cause. Diversity is the key to to growth.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26743022 - 06/13/20 11:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don’t think it’s unimportant.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26743087 - 06/14/20 12:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

On an individual level it is, but it's not anyone's business to judge what religion belongs where. To me personally all recognized religions are the same thing...just religion.

Quote:

Well, you say that it's gospel but I know that it's only church


- Tom Waits


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26949216 - 09/22/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

My Conclusion
Analysis of Psilocybin and Christianity


Academic Conclusions. There are a lot of great studies indicating that psilocybin is not addictive, has an extremely low potential for abuse, is helpful in a wide array of therapeutic applications, can be beneficial even in low (non-trippy) doses, and has no known adverse side effects in typical doses. Other academics indicate that the risk of a “bad trip” can be mitigated by proper set and setting, and that the only individuals who will experience any lasting negative effects are those who are already prone to schizophrenia. For academic reading, and proper citations, I recommend that anyone interested should search on www.scholar.google.com. This issue does not seem to be politically divided, which is refreshing.

Random Anecdotes. There are numerous benefits to an empirical and scientific approach to all learning, especially in the context of Christianity. I am not dismissive of individuals who hold to their spirituality (or their atheism) by faith in what someone simply told them to believe, or by their own perceptions of their own experiences, but I have chosen to base all of my beliefs (right and wrong) on my best interpretation of verifiable empirical data, data derived from testable and repeatable test results, and data that can be mathematically (philosophically) proven. That being said, here are a few really cool anecdotal tidbits that may be valuable to you, or you may think they are worthless:
a. The healing from one small dose was life-changing, in a distinct, and pronounced way. Those who are close to me have even noticed that I am a better person.
b. The healing from a few large doses of psilocybin was even more of the same.
c. I have a lot of new gratitude. It was a lot of novelty. I see nothing unethical about enjoying your therapy. Many things in life now seem to be new, fresh, and so enjoyable. Having a grateful heart is a godly trait.
d. I am more humble. I make fun of myself a lot more. I don’t care to prove my points. I don’t care if people agree with me. I don’t care to be right, to look good in front of others, and I am probably a lot less of a jerk to be around now. I realize that so much of my life as a born again, spirit-filled, saved & baptized Christian was still based upon pride and ego.
e. Self-discipline has improved. I exercise more. I eat better. My relationships have improved.
f. I am no longer living in fear. My feeling of societal and financial dread has disappeared. I am free to be happy to enjoy my surroundings, with a heart of gratitude.
g. I was able to finally forgive. I was wronged by a few individuals, and it had been eating away at me on the inside for years. I tried and tried, repeatedly, to forgive them, but the feelings of hatred just kept coming back. After one huge dose of shrooms, all of that was gone (the small dose didn’t do that). Today I can think of those people and I just don’t have any reaction. I still think they are not the kind of people I would want to be around, and I can still recognize that they are pretty awful to be around, but I have no latent emotional baggage to carry when I think of them. I am now free of all of that bitterness.
h. I think there is a case for taking a small dose every 2 weeks, which I intend to do for the time being. Not only should this be made legal, it should be given to vast multitudes of people who have clinical depression, PTSD, the terminally ill, people fighting addictions, and a whole host of other people. There are people who don’t have any of these problems,… and then there are most people. So, “most people” could benefit from at least one treatment of psilocybin. 
i.


Unsolicited Opinion on Alternative Treatments.

j. DMT is overkill in my fallible opinion. I recommend just good ole’ natural shrooms. Smoking DMT looks like smoking meth, and would be very hard to explain to your kids who wouldn’t see the difference between smoking a “healing” white crystal in a strange looking apparatus and a “death sentence” white crystal in another.  I wanted to get a “full experience” and did about 750 mg in a 24 hour period including a series of “breakthroughs.” Afterwards, I felt like it didn’t last long enough, I missed the familiar come-up of shrooms, and after all that I felt like I had just gotten done smoking one big urinal cake and then eating another urinal cake. If you are a Christian just wanting maximum healing, don’t do DMT, you’ll feel like a crack smoker, feel terrible for doing it, and if you get caught by the local authorities have fun explaining that one. Just do good ole shrooms that grow in the ground. I would compare it like this: DMT vs. shrooms is like 5 minutes with a hooker vs. spending a whole day with the woman you love.
k. If you want a fully legal* medicine, Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose seeds are easy to get, and perfectly legal as long as you take them unrefined. I did a whole bunch of that too. Thought I had killed myself. 12 seeds were too much. It is a lot like shrooms, except DO NOT EAT anything prior to or after your trip. Also the come down seemed slower than shrooms for me. I wanted to vomit and vomit, but I was on an empty stomach so it was a rough ride. All I can say is that if you are out for healing, nobody will accuse you of just trying to have a good thrill if you take Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose seeds. Wow effective but talk about feeling barfy. If your conscience won’t let you take shrooms, go for the Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose but just remember you will feel sick to your stomach and need to drink a lot of water to flush out all of the other junk in the seeds that makes you feel sick. However, I would prefer a day of nausea to the expense and time of having to travel to Jamaica, Holland, etc. for legal psilocybin.

*Legality: Imagine a group of squirrels in your back yard who vote on morality of acceptable squirrel behavior in the trees they adamantly claim to own… even though you own the trees and those trees have been around for a lot longer than the presence of the squirrels. It would be just stupid. That is probably the most stupid illustration you have ever heard of… and is exactly what I think of our system of legality regarding hallucinogens. People are just a bunch of created animals occupying an earth they do not own, staking claim to “own” parts of it even though it was here long before they were. A gang of ignorant apes voting to prohibit organic foods, or physical therapy, would be absolutely ridiculous and evil, and the place for a good person in such a society is in the place of rebellion. Regarding the moral obligation of Christians to obey their governments, Simon the Zealot was never condemned by Jesus for refusing to pay taxes, and was never condemned for his anti-governmental political affiliations as a Zealot. The Zealots were political extremists who refused to pay taxes, acknowledge Rome, and many even refused to speak Greek. Yet Jesus never took a scorge of cords to Simon’s back for this belief, nor went on a crusade to stamp out the Zealots for their refusal to obey their government. A government should be obeyed, but not in cases where it is evil. There is nothing good about a law that prohibits a wonderful blessing created by God which is so clearly a cure to mass suffering. Mark my words: the illegality of shrooms will be more temporary than our lives on this earth, and civilization in the future looking back at us will think our government was oppressive and primitive.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26950217 - 09/22/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry if my karma ran over your dogma, but...



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26951450 - 09/23/20 04:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
.... Mark my words: the illegality of shrooms will be more temporary than our lives on this earth, and civilization in the future looking back at us will think our government was oppressive and primitive.




.    I do not share your optimism, and think it totally unfounded. Without an understanding of why the world is so messed up today, both economically, politically, and physically (global warming, pollution, and so on & on), there is no basis for making such predictions, rather the fact that all these factors happened in the first place and continue to accelerate suggests the exact opposite.

.    I get that you are enthusiastic, & experiencing positive results, as was Tim Leary & many others, but that does not ensure any sort of world change for the better.
.    In Brazil where psychedelic use is legal, the country is a total mess.
.    Part of integrating tripping involves staying grounded and balanced in one's life as a whole IMO.
.    Also impermanence would seem to be a major message of any psychedelic use, yet you blithely say: "... will be more temporary than our lives..."  seems to me you missed something rather important ... but never mind I'm 'just another bozo at the back of the bus'.


Edited by laughingdog (09/23/20 04:50 PM)


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: laughingdog]
    #26951554 - 09/23/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

.    In Brazil where psychedelic use is legal, the country is a total mess.
.    Part of integrating tripping involves staying grounded and balanced in one's life as a whole IMO.
.    Also impermanence would seem to be a major message of any psychedelic use, yet you blithely say: "... will be more temporary than our lives..."  seems to me you missed something rather important ... but never mind I'm 'just another bozo at the back of the bus'.




I don't think one good thing will harken utopian bliss on earth... so I agree with you there. But hey, a step in the right direction is a step in the right direction.

Yeah integration is important for sure.

Well, if the ban lasts an average lifespan (71 years?), and it started in 1971, then I guess in my blithe rambling I predicted it would be legalized by 2042. Well... maybe I should have said, "...will be temporary, sort of like our lives..." But even still, I think its highly possible that legalization could happen by 2042. Sure.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26951577 - 09/23/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sorry if my karma ran over your dogma, but...





Nope, my dogma is still on his leash. Maybe you done run over the neighbor's dogma.

I've changed my mind so many times over the years, that I have to absolutely say that I am always 100% open-minded, and nobody can ever change my mind on that opinion.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Conservative Evangelical Christians and Psilocybin Use [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26952285 - 09/24/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

so you could lead in with "mark my changed mind," psilocybin will be come legal.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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