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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineTmethylM
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R.Spira on 'Time' (video)
    #26741697 - 06/13/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've been listening to Rupert Spira on and off for about 5 years, this is one of his most recent videos on the subject of time.
I have to agree with his summation here, and I find it beautifully succinct. As Einstein said; "if you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it well enough.".
Video is set to start at the part I am referring to.



:heart:


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl] * 1
    #26741744 - 06/13/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I like it, he puts it very well.  Interestingly, it goes right along with everything the Course in Miracles attempts to teach.  :tongue2:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Forrester]
    #26742089 - 06/13/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I would say we do experience time.  Certain conditions that are experienced affect later conditions including our minds.  We feel time might be a better way of putting it.  Given that feeling is wrapped up into experience I’d say that constitutes experiencing time.  I do believe I get what he’s saying though.  We only experience the eternal now as it manifested in finite and limited ways that are subject to change.  Nevertheless our moment now with its conditions isn’t any more special fundamentally than previous conditions experienced.  Different moments and their conditions affect the finite aspects of ourselves which I think is what he is saying.  So I guess that puts me in agreement.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26742168 - 06/13/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I would say we do experience time.  Certain conditions that are experienced affect later conditions including our minds.  We feel time might be a better way of putting it.  Given that feeling is wrapped up into experience I’d say that constitutes experiencing time.  I do believe I get what he’s saying though.  We only experience the eternal now as it manifested in finite and limited ways that are subject to change.  Nevertheless our moment now with its conditions isn’t any more special fundamentally than previous conditions experienced.  Different moments and their conditions affect the finite aspects of ourselves which I think is what he is saying.  So I guess that puts me in agreement.




I don't think that's what he is saying, although I am open to disagreement, maybe I am wrong... But what I believe he is saying is more that there aren't later conditions, previous conditions, or different moments at all. 

There is no time.  Our perception creates it.  The eternal now is all there is.  Everything does happen all at once, our mind is just incapable of perceiving it as such, so we slice it up into little pieces.  Same goes with the connectedness off all being.  We are all one, we just perceive it otherwise, in this dream anyway.


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-------------------

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26742280 - 06/13/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Don't agree with him really, I don't think the now exists at all. Equally how he's trying to say show me the past you can't, you can't see the now for yourself or share it with another. Always thought that guy Rupert had a healthy presence though. It's nice to see.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Forrester]
    #26742631 - 06/13/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:


I don't think that's what he is saying, although I am open to disagreement, maybe I am wrong... But what I believe he is saying is more that there aren't later conditions, previous conditions, or different moments at all. 

There is no time.  Our perception creates it.  The eternal now is all there is.  Everything does happen all at once, our mind is just incapable of perceiving it as such, so we slice it up into little pieces.  Same goes with the connectedness off all being.  We are all one, we just perceive it otherwise, in this dream anyway.




So he is saying that in relation to base consciousness (w/o finite movements) finite conditions do not exist and are an illusion.  As far as that goes I can dig it.  But of course we are finite and so there are conditions.  Would not assume to know what bass consciousness really is without the movements.  It is like a black hole.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26742726 - 06/13/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Don't agree with him really, I don't think the now exists at all.



This is true in a way. The roots of the word exist are 'ex' and 'sistere' meaning to 'stand out'.
You are right that the now does not 'stand out' or exist, because to stand out from something it would require separation from
the thing it's standing out from(consciousness). More accurately put, the now is not existing, it is existence.

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I would say we do experience time.



Would it not be more accurate to say that yes, we do experience time, but 'we' and 'I' are experienced as well.
This is a point Rupert was making when he talks about the tinted glasses, the medium through which time is experienced(the mind) is only a filter, and not consciousness.
The 'we' or 'I' is inside consciousness, it's not consciousness itself, this is why I can say "I have a mind, I watch my thoughts, I have a body, etc" because consciousness(I) is prior to mind and body, and therefore prior to time.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (06/13/20 09:19 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26743432 - 06/14/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
So he is saying that in relation to base consciousness (w/o finite movements) finite conditions do not exist and are an illusion.  As far as that goes I can dig it.  But of course we are finite and so there are conditions.  Would not assume to know what bass consciousness really is without the movements.  It is like a black hole.




Maybe the movements are how we learn what consciousness is?

What we are.  I don't think we are finite.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26744252 - 06/14/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I would say we do experience time.



Would it not be more accurate to say that yes, we do experience time, but 'we' and 'I' are experienced as well.
This is a point Rupert was making when he talks about the tinted glasses, the medium through which time is experienced(the mind) is only a filter, and not consciousness.
The 'we' or 'I' is inside consciousness, it's not consciousness itself, this is why I can say "I have a mind, I watch my thoughts, I have a body, etc" because consciousness(I) is prior to mind and body, and therefore prior to time.




If “I” postulate an other where “I” reside within, that being consciousness in this case, then it must be “me” that is doing it.  So either I am doing it through a part of this other consciousness which it’s then not an other or I am imaging things in my finite mind.  What would be the case here, does Rupert imagine this greater consciousness or is it linked to our mind?  I suppose if we consider ourselves infinite in some capacity then consciousness as something that the mind filters into illusion is a part of the mind, no?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26744459 - 06/14/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I suppose if we consider ourselves infinite in some capacity then consciousness as something that the mind filters into illusion is a part of the mind, no?




Yeah, I like that one!
:yesnod:

Kind of a trick of perception that we see everything as separate from us...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26744660 - 06/14/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
does Rupert imagine this greater consciousness or is it linked to our mind?



There are great metaphors for the linking of mind and consciousness, but Rupert prefers one something like this:

The Dream
- your name is Amanda, you live in Italy, you go to sleep, you enter a dream.
- in the dream you're now someone named John, and you're walking through the streets of London.
- you spend a few weeks in London and end up falling off a bridge in a horrible accident, you die.
- Amanda wakes up, exhales, realizes it was a dream, and carrys on.

-- in this dream, John, John's perspective of the world, the world, John's thoughts feelings and perceptions, 2 weeks of time,
John's death, & John's life, are all entirely made of Amanda's imagination while she slept in Italy.
-- in this metaphor Amanda is consciousness itself.
-- consciousness is infinite, and infinity can only know infinity, therefore consciousness restricts itself into the limitations of a dreamed organism and dreamed mind,
in order to explore itself.
-- only through the agency of a dreamed organism can a dreamed world be seen and experienced.
-- if John were to look for Amanda(consciousness) in the dream, where would he look? Of course the answer is anywhere, or nowhere. John can never find Amanda, because Amanda is not a concept, Amanda has no dimensions, and minds can only deal in concepts and objects. Yet, everything is Amanda; John, John's mind, and even time.

This is how mind and consciousness are connected.


--------------------
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26745507 - 06/15/20 04:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So Amanda is God and John can't find her because he's inside?


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Forrester]
    #26746398 - 06/15/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Not exactly, to be inside something implies there is an outside.
John can't find Amanda because John is made entirely of Amanda.
A knife can cut many things, but a knife cannot cut itself.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (06/15/20 11:53 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26746444 - 06/15/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Don’t make me make a knife that can cut itself - cuz I will  :crankey:

(Point taken, just had to go there though :smirk:)


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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26746512 - 06/15/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I admit the Amanda/John metaphor has a nice ring to it.  Maybe exchange names to suit preferences like Terry or Janelle.  At any rate if one were to take this further and say that there must be not only one Amanda but many many Amanda’s to reflect the amount of physical life forms.  You have an Amanda, she has a Terry etc.  But wouldn’t there also to need to be a meta reflection of virtually all things that are manifest in finite space.  Like trees, squirrels, televisions.  If there is an Amanda then is there also an entire conscious reality that projects into all the specific physical states?  Because wouldn’t it be arrogant to assume that mans eternal consciousness is the only infinite presence that can manifest physically where all physical things are only a production of man.  That doesn’t seem accurate.  :shrug:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26746871 - 06/15/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Don’t make me make a knife that can cut itself - cuz I will  :crankey:

(Point taken, just had to go there though :smirk:)




:lamastare:

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Because wouldn’t it be arrogant to assume that mans eternal consciousness is the only infinite presence that can manifest physically where all physical things are only a production of man.



This eternal consciousness is not 'mans' eternal consciousness. The same consciousness that shines through you, shines through all living things. In the metaphor John's entire world, and all things living in it, are all Amanda dreaming.


Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
At any rate if one were to take this further and say that there must be not only one Amanda but many many Amanda’s to reflect the amount of physical life forms.  You have an Amanda, she has a Terry etc.



An infinite consciousness can make infinite localizations while losing nothing from itself. Each localization being a living thing, you, me, a moth, a bear, a dog, a fly. The reason you would think each John needs an Amanda is because this is how your mind is accustomed to seeing the world, it's nearly impossible for any human being to imagine seeing the world from more than one perspective.

Yet, consciousness is doing more that, it's not only seeing the world from every possible perspective from every possible creature, it's playing as the world they are all seeing, the touch they are all feeling, the smell they are all smelling, the pain they are all feeling.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (06/15/20 03:34 PM)


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Re: R.Spira on 'Time' (video) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26746977 - 06/15/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So you are saying that Amanda is a meta conscious plane itself that is dreaming what must amount to the entirety of the physical cosmos.  I was thinking that Amanda was a specific denizen of this meta plane that is exploring a physical incarnation as an individual being.  I like to think there are fragmented entities within consciousness that represent physical entities.  Like there are individuals within this plane.  I think the detail is important.  :blush:

Because certainly you exist separate from me in some capacity.  Perhaps we are both being dreamed by Amanda (the conscious plane) but within Amanda there must be fragmentation.


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