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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740136 - 06/12/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So anyone who's not hurting anyone can break curfew?

I'm not even in favor of curfew, but if a state is allowed to have curfew, it seems odd if they're not allowed to enforce it.



They can enforce it...I just said they can write a citation.  It's the same way we enforce speed limits.  The cop doesn't go in and install a governor on the car.  He writes the ticket and the speeder pays a fine or whatever punishment is dictated by law.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26740141 - 06/12/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Would he have suffered the same fate if he had lived in another state?  Everything the man did throughout his life led to that moment.  That doesn't mean that he made it happen, though.  The blame goes to the wrongdoer.  He did nothing wrong.  The cop did.




:awkwardconfusion:

So in weighing up the wrong doing, the judge/jury will be looking only at the cops actions and nothing to do with the protester's actions?



Not typically.  If the officer claims self-defense, then the protester's actions immediately prior to the shove will be relevant, but certainly not whether he brought a helmet or talked shit 10 minutes before.

Comparing this to the rape hypothetical, the victim's actions immediately before would be relevant, but not her decision to wear a miniskirt that night.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26740219 - 06/12/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Some people consider the skirt and heels to be slutty actions



High heels make me feel like a slut


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740223 - 06/12/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding: ok


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740260 - 06/12/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So anyone who's not hurting anyone can break curfew?

I'm not even in favor of curfew, but if a state is allowed to have curfew, it seems odd if they're not allowed to enforce it.



They can enforce it...I just said they can write a citation.



Ah, so they can decide not to enforce the curfew they were called in to enforce?

That makes me wonder if I can decide not to do the jobs I'm assigned to do at my work...  :strokebeard3:

I guess I can if I'm willing to face the consequences.



Quote:

Enlil said:
If the officer claims self-defense, then the protester's actions immediately prior to the shove will be relevant, but certainly not whether he brought a helmet or talked shit 10 minutes before.

Comparing this to the rape hypothetical, the victim's actions immediately before would be relevant, but not her decision to wear a miniskirt that night.



Bad examples.

The relevant example in this case would be the guy defiantly walking up to a line of cops clearing out the square and blocking their path.



Pushing the guy away was an overreaction.  They should have written a citation and let him break the curfew they were called in to enforce.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740400 - 06/12/20 07:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Writing a citation is punishing him... not letting him break the law. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740417 - 06/12/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ah, so they can decide not to enforce the curfew they were called in to enforce?

That makes me wonder if I can decide not to do the jobs I'm assigned to do at my work...  :strokebeard3:




The capricious enforcement of laws is just another example of abusive police.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740424 - 06/12/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Falcon literally only argues semantics. He never takes a moral stand on any one side. Just argues who said what, and what means what.



If you tell me the cop would have been charged with murder if the old man died, I'm going to disagree.  It doesn't mean I don't think the cop wasn't wrong, it means I don't think he would have been guilty of murder.  :shrug:



Again, never once did I say the cop would be charged with murder. The only time I even
once said the word murder was in regard to one punch homicide.

This is why I continue to say you are, in fact, the one arguing in bad faith.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740450 - 06/12/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Writing a citation is punishing him... not letting him break the law. Why is that so hard for you to understand?



I don't understand.  If they write a citation, does that mean he'll just go home whether he wants to or not?


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: koods]
    #26740458 - 06/12/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The capricious enforcement of laws is just another example of abusive police.



Do you think the police were the ones to decide on a curfew?  Or city/county government?


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740463 - 06/12/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Writing a citation is punishing him... not letting him break the law. Why is that so hard for you to understand?



I don't understand.  If they write a citation, does that mean he'll just go home whether he wants to or not?



It means he'll be punished for the violation. You've never gotten a ticket before?

If he doesn't go home,  he can be cited again. Eventually, he'll go home or he'll have big trouble.  Arresting him guarantees he doesn't go home.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26740480 - 06/12/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Again, never once did I say the cop would be charged with murder. The only time I even
once said the word murder was in regard to one punch homicide.



I know that, and I discussed it at length here:banghead:

When I agreed with you that this was homicide but not murder, why did you respond "No, we dont agree"?

I'm just trying to understand you.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740512 - 06/12/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
If he doesn't go home,  he can be cited again. Eventually, he'll go home or he'll have big trouble.  Arresting him guarantees he doesn't go home.



And that's what I agreed should have happened in the first place.  I think the cops were more interested in clearing out the square than figuring out how many citations they would have to write for that guy.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740521 - 06/12/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Why should the cops interest be the deciding factor? This isn't the USSR. Arresting people for nonviolent crimes is reprehensible.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740542 - 06/12/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Are you saying it's illegal to arrest people for not obeying police orders outside the USSR?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26740552 - 06/12/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

No. I'm saying it's oppressive. How would you like to be arrested for speeding? Or for expired tags?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740580 - 06/12/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Expired tags are the most direct path to arrest in my experience.

To Fal's question of intent from some several posts ago, the malicious intent was signaled by the gear those cops were wearing.  They put on their ass-kicking outfits and then they kicked ass, as one would expect from a person arrayed in ass-kicking gear. 

To your point about citing the man...see my previous point.  You don't put on ass-kicking gear if you don't intend to kick ass, which naturally precludes writing citations.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740713 - 06/12/20 10:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No. I'm saying it's oppressive. How would you like to be arrested for speeding? Or for expired tags?



I'm not saying it's not oppressive.  I'm saying people can legally get arrested outside the former USSR for not obeying police orders, like it or not.


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26740719 - 06/12/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yup. Legal doesn't mean right.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26740755 - 06/12/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
This isn't the USSR. Arresting people for nonviolent crimes is reprehensible.



Are you saying it's illegal to arrest people for not obeying police orders outside the USSR?



Yup. Legal doesn't mean right.



So the US IS like the former USSR (and probably every other country) in that it can arrest people who disobey police orders.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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