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OfflineMurama16
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: circetwo]
    #26740143 - 06/12/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Is gypsum absolutely necessary for casing layer? I got Jiffy bag mix with coco coir, vermiculite and peat moss, and I have some hydrated lime as well.. think I will be ok with no gypsum ( can’t find any.. on a small island)


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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Registered: 05/20/20
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Murama16]
    #26740220 - 06/12/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yup. You'll be ok.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Anastomosis]
    #26740449 - 06/12/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You dont even need a casing layer with cubes. In a standard monotub, Just do coir/ verm sub and leave 2 quarts of the mix to top layer at spawning. Outdated info.


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Offlineouuwee
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: eatyualive]
    #26740961 - 06/13/20 01:22 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
You dont even need a casing layer with cubes. In a standard monotub, Just do coir/ verm sub and leave 2 quarts of the mix to top layer at spawning. Outdated info.




It's beneficial for PE/APE though right?


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OfflineAbby
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: ouuwee]
    #26948262 - 09/21/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Frank.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Murama16]
    #26949071 - 09/22/20 10:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Murama16 said:
Is gypsum absolutely necessary for casing layer? I got Jiffy bag mix with coco coir, vermiculite and peat moss, and I have some hydrated lime as well.. think I will be ok with no gypsum ( can’t find any.. on a small island)




Check your hardware store in the the drywall section for "plaster of paris". This is gypsum


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: maxmush]
    #26949191 - 09/22/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maxmush said:
Quote:

Murama16 said:
Is gypsum absolutely necessary for casing layer? I got Jiffy bag mix with coco coir, vermiculite and peat moss, and I have some hydrated lime as well.. think I will be ok with no gypsum ( can’t find any.. on a small island)




Check your hardware store in the the drywall section for "plaster of paris". This is gypsum



No, it is not. It is dehydrated gypsum, and if you used it like it was gypsum you might end up with a plaster cast. You can hydrate plaster into a cast then crumple it up (it is a total pain and bonds to the container you mixed it in, btw); that is now gypsum, or you can add a relatively small amount to a quantity of water (recommended). IME if you don't add too much, it won't form casts on the bottom of your pan. But if you do, they are so hard to remove.

If you have spare drywall, you can also use that as if it were plaster.


Edited by junk_f00d (09/22/20 11:43 AM)


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: eatyualive]
    #26949198 - 09/22/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
You dont even need a casing layer with cubes. In a standard monotub, Just do coir/ verm sub and leave 2 quarts of the mix to top layer at spawning. Outdated info.



Is there a name for this top layer or idea? I always call it topdressing.


Quote:

ouuwee said:
It's beneficial for PE/APE though right?




That is the current majority held belief here, yes. But you can find genetics that do well without a casing.


Edited by junk_f00d (09/22/20 11:47 AM)


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: junk_f00d]
    #26950752 - 09/23/20 09:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

junk_f00d said:
Quote:

maxmush said:
Quote:

Murama16 said:
Is gypsum absolutely necessary for casing layer? I got Jiffy bag mix with coco coir, vermiculite and peat moss, and I have some hydrated lime as well.. think I will be ok with no gypsum ( can’t find any.. on a small island)




Check your hardware store in the the drywall section for "plaster of paris". This is gypsum



No, it is not. It is dehydrated gypsum, and if you used it like it was gypsum you might end up with a plaster cast. You can hydrate plaster into a cast then crumple it up (it is a total pain and bonds to the container you mixed it in, btw); that is now gypsum, or you can add a relatively small amount to a quantity of water (recommended). IME if you don't add too much, it won't form casts on the bottom of your pan. But if you do, they are so hard to remove.

If you have spare drywall, you can also use that as if it were plaster.




Incorrect. Plaster of Paris IS gypsum. Hydrating and then drying it, and then crumbling it is the SAME thing. It is still calcium sulfate dihydrate. I have never had issues using it ever.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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OfflineMushBrain1
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #27433559 - 08/18/21 07:41 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I've been meaning to post this for a while but had no pictures. Now with a half-dozen PE tubs on the way, I have plenty of time for showing how I case a tub.



Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
Casings do this:

1. Protect colonized substrate from drying out.
2. Provide a microclimate favorable for primordia formation.
3. Provide moisture for mushroom growth.
4. Promotes stimulation of pinning by signaling mycellium it is out of nutrition and time to reproduce.






Let's get this out of the way first...

This is about how to make and apply a casing layer. This casing layer can be used for most species but I will be discussing cubes in this thread. I don't want this thread to become a debate about whether or not cubensis benefits from a casing layer. Please stay on topic.

:thanx:



Now let's get started!

There are a lot of different types of casing layers, this is about 50/50+

This is roughly 50% peat moss, 50% verm, a little lime and a little gypsum.

For a great tek on how to make your 50/50+ casing layer from raw materials, look no further than RR's video on the topic.

This is a lazy-man's casing layer. I use organic jiffy mix seed starter, straight from the bag.



There are many different kinds of this seed starter and they are pretty poorly marked most of the time. 

Make sure to check the ingredients. You want it to only include peat moss, vermiculite, lime, and a wetting agent. Grab the organic kind and avoid anything that contains fertilizers, organic or not.


Preparing the casing material

I am using the entire 16 quart bag for this pictorial. This results in about 8-10 quarts of hydrated casing material.

When using less, measure out 1.5 - 2 quarts of dry jiffy mix for each quart of hydrated casing material you need.

Put it in a 5 gallon bucket and remove any large stems or chunks of debris.



Add water slowly until you reach your desired consistency. Remember to prep it on the dry side of field capacity- it will get muddy if it's too wet. As you add water, you will need to squeeze and "massage" the casing material. It will soak up the water very quickly with minimal work.



If you add too much water, just add some more verm to soak it up.

With my bags of jiffy mix, 4 quarts dry will be at field capacity with 1 quart of water. You will need to find your "sweet spot" as well, it varies from bag to bag and region to region.

Once hydrated to your liking, throw a bit of gypsum in. I use a small handful or two for every 16 quarts of dry jiffy mix. Mix it up again and check for field capacity one more time.



Load a bag or jars and pasteurize on the stove, following this link if you need instructions. 60-90min at 140-160F.

Let it cool overnight.

Here it is, ready to go.




Casing methods

First, figure out when you want to case the tub.

You can also apply a thin casing later (1/4"-1/2") and fruit the tub immediately.

Personally I prefer to apply a 1/2" casing layer to my PE tubs at 100% colonization, then let them colonize for 3-7 days. When the mycelium is poking through about 20% of the casing layer, I fruit the tub.

Some people have good luck with a "late casing" that is applied very thin (1/4") after pinning has begun.


How to apply the casing layer



Open the tub and start pouring your pasteurized casing material over the top. Gently spread it around, breaking it up so there are no big chunks.



Be gentle- try to disturb the substrate itself as little as possible.

Make it as deep as you feel you need to and even it out as best you can. Do not compress it, leave it fluffy.



Now either fruit it or return it to colonizing conditions until 20%.

Here is the casing layer above after 2 days:



And here it is after 4 days, ready to be fruited:



Notice how there is a lot of mycelium poking through along the edges of the casing?

I like to patch that with an additional, very thin (1/4") layer of casing material. I find that I get a more even pinset this way. If I leave it be, the edges tend to get a lot of pins first.



And here it is fruiting.





It has been my experience with cubes that a 50/50+ casing layer will be almost colonized (unless you late-cased) after the first flush. I don't re-case my cubes after harvest either.

Here are some penis envy tubs done with this casing layer, coir/verm with a 1/2" 50/50+. These are "limited" multispore, first flushes:


Here are p. galindoi fruits in a mini-GH with 1/4" of this casing material on top.


Discussion on how PE benefits from a casing layer can be found here.

:cheers:





\Hey Frank,

I followed this to a 'T', even casing again around the outside edges, and I got Blobs again!  What am I doing wrong?  I used pasteurized Jiffy Mix 1/2", then re-cased edges only a thin layer.
Please advise Master.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: MushBrain1]
    #27433580 - 08/18/21 08:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Frank isn't around as far as I know. There's plenty of casing threads that are current.


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27433650 - 08/18/21 08:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maxmush said:
Quote:

junk_f00d said:
Quote:

maxmush said:
Quote:

Murama16 said:
Is gypsum absolutely necessary for casing layer? I got Jiffy bag mix with coco coir, vermiculite and peat moss, and I have some hydrated lime as well.. think I will be ok with no gypsum ( can’t find any.. on a small island)




Check your hardware store in the the drywall section for "plaster of paris". This is gypsum



No, it is not. It is dehydrated gypsum, and if you used it like it was gypsum you might end up with a plaster cast. You can hydrate plaster into a cast then crumple it up (it is a total pain and bonds to the container you mixed it in, btw); that is now gypsum, or you can add a relatively small amount to a quantity of water (recommended). IME if you don't add too much, it won't form casts on the bottom of your pan. But if you do, they are so hard to remove.

If you have spare drywall, you can also use that as if it were plaster.




Incorrect. Plaster of Paris IS gypsum. Hydrating and then drying it, and then crumbling it is the SAME thing. It is still calcium sulfate dihydrate. I have never had issues using it ever.



Old comment but no it's not, one is hydrated and one isn't. If you want to test it yourself go ahead. The dehydrated one (plaster) might hydrate and harden on the bottom of your pot. Happened to me and it's a PITA.


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OfflineAkamykedee
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Registered: 01/27/19
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #28284384 - 04/18/23 07:44 PM (10 months, 22 hours ago)

Can you store these jars for later?


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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: Akamykedee]
    #28284506 - 04/18/23 09:10 PM (10 months, 20 hours ago)

This is an older thread. If by jars you mean whatever you keep your substrate in, then yes, they'll keep for a good while if it's something like straight coir, or coir and verm and the container is sealed. For cubes, the simpler the substrate and casing/pseudo casing the better generally. No need for Jiffy mix, gypsum, or any other additives. I would recommend a more up to date post, with this excellent write up by Stipe-n Cap on casing:

Top Layer/Pseudo-casing by p9


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OfflineRP3
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) *DELETED* [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #28354732 - 06/10/23 05:39 PM (8 months, 10 days ago)

Post deleted by RP3

Reason for deletion: ↓


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Edited by RP3 (06/11/23 12:53 AM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: RP3] * 1
    #28354812 - 06/10/23 07:06 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Frank isn't here, man.

Peat casings are used for PE and other species like panaeolus. Not worth the trouble for cubensis.
Please pay attention to the post warnings.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 3
    #28354817 - 06/10/23 07:11 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)



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