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Offlineqman
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26754754 - 06/18/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Flag's fault?  Dude, a flag is an inanimate object.  It can't be at fault.  What are you even asking?

A flag is a symbol.  The confederate flag is a symbol of white dominance, black suppression, and slavery.




Many people in the US and around the world perceive the US flag as a symbol of oppression, global dominance, endless wars, violator of human rights and white colonialism.



Yup, and rightly so.




So remove it today if possible?


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Offlineqman
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26754757 - 06/18/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:




Segregation based on race and ethnicity isn't "normal" human behavior?



 
  My wife’s grandfather is black and my kids are brown . It’s not to me no .
Why  Is it normal behavior for you ?




Historically, it's been more of the norm, right?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: qman]
    #26754776 - 06/18/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Flag's fault?  Dude, a flag is an inanimate object.  It can't be at fault.  What are you even asking?

A flag is a symbol.  The confederate flag is a symbol of white dominance, black suppression, and slavery.




Many people in the US and around the world perceive the US flag as a symbol of oppression, global dominance, endless wars, violator of human rights and white colonialism.



Yup, and rightly so.




So remove it today if possible?



Remove it from what? I won't fly the flag.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26754841 - 06/18/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

There is a tear in my flag, I call it the old glory hole. If it happens to become unservicable, I will burn it.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: SirTripAlot] * 4
    #26754855 - 06/18/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Qman's underlying silly argument is that the American flag has negative connotations, but we're keeping it.  Of course, The American flag is a symbol of what America actually is:  A world dominating force of oppression and evil.  The way to fix that is not to get rid of the flag but to change how America treats the rest of the world...


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil]
    #26754895 - 06/18/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I completely agree.... it would start with a rewind/ revamping of nationalism....something not just rebranded, but a fundamental change. We can make America great again--- we can't even say that phrase anymore without its illicit connotation.

Flag worship among the populace is commonplace, yet I am willing to bet, that most would be appalled at my decision to burn the flag, yet that is the appropriate disposal method....which displays the blind allegiance/ uneducated national fevers that surrounds it.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlineqman
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil]
    #26755192 - 06/18/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Qman's underlying silly argument is that the American flag has negative connotations, but we're keeping it.  Of course, The American flag is a symbol of what America actually is:  A world dominating force of oppression and evil.  The way to fix that is not to get rid of the flag but to change how America treats the rest of the world...




Well, is there any nation states flag that doesn't have negative connotations to at least some people?  It really isn't that hard today to be offended.


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Offlineqman
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26755196 - 06/18/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I completely agree.... it would start with a rewind/ revamping of nationalism....something not just rebranded, but a fundamental change. We can make America great again--- we can't even say that phrase anymore without its illicit connotation.

Flag worship among the populace is commonplace, yet I am willing to bet, that most would be appalled at my decision to burn the flag, yet that is the appropriate disposal method....which displays the blind allegiance/ uneducated national fevers that surrounds it.




I would support your right or decision to burn the flag for any reason.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: qman]
    #26755228 - 06/18/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Qman's underlying silly argument is that the American flag has negative connotations, but we're keeping it.  Of course, The American flag is a symbol of what America actually is:  A world dominating force of oppression and evil.  The way to fix that is not to get rid of the flag but to change how America treats the rest of the world...




Well, is there any nation states flag that doesn't have negative connotations to at least some people?  It really isn't that hard today to be offended.



It's never been hard to be offended.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: qman] * 1
    #26755316 - 06/18/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I support those that dont burn the flag, we agree there.

Category:
General Flag Etiquette

Question:
How are unserviceable flags destroyed?

Answer:
The Code suggests that, “when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning.” For individual citizens this should be done discreetly so that the act of destruction is not perceived as a protest or desecration. Many American Legion posts conduct Disposal of Unserviceable Flags

https://www.legion.org/flag/questions-answers/91117/how-are-unserviceable-flags-destroyed


Edited by SirTripAlot (06/18/20 08:45 PM)


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: qman]
    #26755350 - 06/18/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Historically, it's been more of the norm, right?




Depends on the time period I guess .  Post slavery for sure .
  During slavery though we just  kept them in our backyards . We didn’t feel the need for it when we owned them , that’s weird huh ?

  My wife is from Cartagena Colombia. There was a huge slave trade there . You will see people who look like their ancestors Are from Africa but they don’t look like Black people here in the us . They didn’t have segregation, the gene pools got mixed .
  I think you could be wrong , I think it may be unique to the American southern states .


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: qman] * 1
    #26755411 - 06/18/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
I spent allot of my youth in Tennessee and I thought the rebel flag was normal back then .  I thought black people having their own poor as fuck towns was normal too . Segregation was still a thing in the mid 80s there .




Segregation based on race and ethnicity isn't "normal" human behavior?



Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:




Segregation based on race and ethnicity isn't "normal" human behavior?



 
  My wife’s grandfather is black and my kids are brown . It’s not to me no .
Why  Is it normal behavior for you ?




Historically, it's been more of the norm, right?




Yes. When you put quotation marks around it, I think I understood your intent; statistically normal. Saying something is the norm makes no moral judgment. It's just an empirical observation on what's usually the case.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26757060 - 06/19/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Well when you are literally flying a flag that represents the rebel effort to preserve slavery you aren't being particularly secretive about it. Ignorance really isn't a particularly good excuse when you want to own human beings to preserve free labor.



It was an effort to preserve rich men's pocket books, just like the American Revolutionary War. People weren't fighting because they wanted slaves. They were fighting because they were riddled with propaganda telling them the North is trying to destroy their economy and ruin their lives. Think of the Iraq war. Sure it wasn't really over weapons of mass destruction but tell that to the families of the soldiers who died. People died for the confederacy and it wasn't slave owners dying, they were exempt from fighting, and when the soldiers died the confederate was flown in their honor.

So it's not about slavery. It's about massive amounts of people dying for their homeland. Now I'm not from the south, so I'm just saying that's what I've been told and I find it a lot more convincing than the idea that people want express their secret love of slavery.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Kizzle] * 3
    #26757068 - 06/19/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The confederate flag wasn't even a prominent thing during the civil war.  It wasn't until later when it was used as a symbol primarily to keep segregation in the South.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26757090 - 06/19/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It got more popular when people start pushing the idea that you shouldn't be allowed to show it and they're like "fuck you I'll fly whatever flag I want."


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Kizzle]
    #26757153 - 06/19/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Great discussion guys.

Whats interesting is the symbolism of the US Flag can change with how USA behaves and how it interacts with the world but the Confederate cannot change because it symbolizes a specific part of US History which cannot be changed.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26757186 - 06/19/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

There are a lot of perspectives. I just saw a George Washington statue toppled. Apparently he's racist too now :lol:. In fairness he probably was. Everyone was back then. They didn't know any better. There was no Google to fact check the things you would have repeatedly heard since birth and no scientific studies to verify what anyone believed.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Kizzle]
    #26757193 - 06/19/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't see why anyone cares that much if statues get taken down.  Statues aren't history.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26757208 - 06/19/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Some people really look up to statues as a everlasting symbol of that person. Its kinda like defaming their gravestone in a way. A Symbolic Insult if you will.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: NASCAR Bans the Confederate Flag [Re: Enlil]
    #26757231 - 06/19/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't see why anyone cares that much if statues get taken down.  Statues aren't history.



Alright then. Lady Liberty called foreigners tired, poor, huddled masses. That's racist. Down she goes.


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