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OfflineKoala
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Registered: 02/04/20
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Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST * 2
    #26739819 - 06/12/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Dear people,

After months on this forum, i feel it is time to make my first contribution to this beautiful place. i am still a full on noob so this gives me the opportunity to discover the subject of this post.
I know bottom and side pinning is something that can be overcome with a liner or proper surface conditions. But because the liner is considered as a crutch, i still encounter bottom and side pins while learning how to walk freely.

On my last grow i had a coir/verm shoebox covered in bottom pins. after some research i came to the conclusion that leaving the substrate the way it is, is considered to be the wise thing to do. Which resulted in a lot of fruits like this:

Some weeks later i had the same issue, and decided to try flipping it. I turned the shoebox upside, and put the block of substrate on the lid in a bigger box, with the bottom filled with perlite.



which resulted in a pretty good grow:

And now same story all over again (the liner is a hard crutch to loose). So to see if the good grow after flipping the substrate was just luck. I'll try it again, and document the result for anyone who is interested.

This is the situation: Golden teacher MS cleaned on agar, put on grain, put on coco/verm. Average first flush, leaving a decent amount of pins (on top), but they dont really look 'alive':
i know it looks dry, but believe me i mist 3/4 times a day.

the substrate seems to put more energy in the bottom ones :

So now i am treating it as a cake and put it in another big tote, on it's side to give all the pins more room. (The set up) :





it is on a 12/12 6500K light schedule in a room with also ambient light. the fan of my martha turns on 1x every hour for 90 seconds for FAE (obviously without humidifier because of the open tarp)

I will post updates of the progress daily. Please feel free to chime in and give tips and advice (especially about keeping my surface conditions good enough to prevent side and bottom pins)

Last thing. English is not my first or second language for me, so forgive me for the errors that most definitely slipped through.


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Registered: 01/25/19
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26739844 - 06/12/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

This is the coolest thread I've seen!  You will be great at this!


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: AtmozFear]
    #26739877 - 06/12/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Atmozfear, for this warm welcome!


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26739886 - 06/12/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

i mean it.


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Edited by AtmozFear (06/12/20 03:33 PM)


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: AtmozFear]
    #26739889 - 06/12/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

🙏


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26762584 - 06/21/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So an unfortunate update, for the ones interested.. The pins started to develop quite interesting, but then I discovered a chunk of trich:( So I have to toss it.
I am now focusing on getting my surface moisture dialed in. And as now confirmed, one subject for a test is not really reliable..



Trich in the last picture.


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OfflineDorfnob
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26762598 - 06/21/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Don't know if its just lighting but the third pics stem looks interesting. your setup is very impressive:thumbup:


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Offlinelefty24
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Dorfnob]
    #26762761 - 06/21/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

My opinion is that you can't have that much wet perlite without having an appropriately drilled SGFC style container, or something with a lot of moving air. Other wise it leads to contams.

ALso resting the substrate directly on the perlite will make it soggy.

Cool test though. You had some WILD pinning going on there.


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26769084 - 06/21/20 11:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you for the response guys.
For some reason a lot of my stems look like that.


And yes Lefty24, you probably are right about the perlite. I didn't thought about it, but now you said it, it reminded me that the first time I tried this, I used a lid to put the substrate on, instead of directly on the perlite ( as you can see in the second picture of the op)
As for the FAE, I've got a fan circulating air through the Martha 3 times every hour, for 2 minutes with an open martha (this also seems a good amount for my shoeboxes) and I flipped the lid of the "test monotub". You think I still would be better off with a sfc?


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OfflineSped105
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26769623 - 06/22/20 12:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've had some success flipping the sub over on the 3rd flush after seeing a bunch of bottom pinning in a couple of shoebox grows and I was able to get another decent flush out of them. I just used the same shoebox and did everything else the same with the sub flipped.

It really does come down to surface conditions, as you know. I just harvested my 2nd flush in a mono and only had a few side pins with none on the first flush.

If you're going to go the perlite way try setting your sub on a piece of tinfoil.

Cool setup. Hopefully you're able to get it dialed in perfect.

You're English is excellent, by the way.

Good luck


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Sped105]
    #26775781 - 06/23/20 01:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I know, surface conditions are still a challenge for me. I chose to put my sub in a bigger tote to give the side pins more room for growth. But now I did the same as you, on a third flush, flipped them in the shoebox itself.

One more question, because I have another interesting situation. I had a shoebox which was contaminated from the start (I could smell it and see it onn the mycelium growth pattern)



Despite the contamination the sub grew one big mushroom.




Then I discovered that the contaminated area on the bottom was overgrown with a lot of pins,




so again I flipped the substrate (on its lid, so it stays off the perlite) . And now it is growing some big fruits (only 2 or 3)


What do you guys think.. Is this good genetics in a contaminated sub, or is, this the way a sub reacts to a contamination, by pushing out a few, but big fruits?

And thanks for the compliments on my set up, I put a lot of time and attention to it:)


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Invisiblegrownright
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Registered: 10/06/14
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26775989 - 06/23/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Those bad boys need some more FAE. Add some holes to that container, its likely the reason it contaminated. Other than that you're doing well :thumbup:


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: grownright]
    #26775996 - 06/23/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've said this in the past b4. If the top of your sub is fucked and everything is coming out the sides and bottom... flip the substrate over. 36fucking5 called me all kinds of stupid for it, even tho my pics kinda proved it was far from stupid.

So in light of that hack's shitty opinion.... i'll still state that flipping the sub is the smart thing to do if all your pins are coming out the sides and bottom. Which any subsequent flushes will fruit from the same side of the sub.

Heavy side and bottom pins usually come from... a top layer being too thick or the surface being too dry.

And i dont consider liners a crutch at all. They make clean up much faster and easier.

:2cents:

Edit: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25601447/fpart/1/vc/1


Edited by LotKid (06/23/20 07:01 AM)


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: LotKid]
    #26776158 - 06/23/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I want to share my experiment in this thread since it is related to sidepins. I didn't need to flip the sub since I only got sidepins, but what I did I will demonstrate with these pics first.

       

As you can see the lid of this tub has grooves that I can fill with water after this flush to hydrate from the bottom. This tub I can keep on top to retain moisture or I can take it off completely to let the mycelium breathe, like last night when I did this change.
I will try liner next shoebox if it helps with the sidepins. I didn't even use that thick of a top layer. Oh now that I think about it, that is probably the reason for the sidepins that the mycelium reaches the surface and good fruiting conditions faster than on the top even with a thin layer sprinkled on. Hmm, maybe no layer is the way to go...


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: grownright]
    #26776924 - 06/23/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you Grownright, I was also thinking this, because of the fuzzy stems.. But I was afraid to over do it, because I've got the lid on upside down and a fan blowing regularly. But I will drill some holes:thumbup:


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: LotKid]
    #26776939 - 06/23/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I've said this in the past b4. If the top of your sub is fucked and everything is coming out the sides and bottom... flip the substrate over. 36fucking5 called me all kinds of stupid for it, even tho my pics kinda proved it was far from stupid.

So in light of that hack's shitty opinion.... i'll still state that flipping the sub is the smart thing to do if all your pins are coming out the sides and bottom. Which any subsequent flushes will fruit from the same side of the sub.

Heavy side and bottom pins usually come from... a top layer being too thick or the surface being too dry.

And i dont consider liners a crutch at all. They make clean up much faster and easier.

:2cents:

Edit: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25601447/fpart/1/vc/1




A thick top layer is something I use often yes, because I thought it would help protect against contamination and it would stimulate the upward mycelium growth.. So thank you for pointing this out🙏


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26776960 - 06/23/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

More than welcome to share your test Innerwisdom. Reaaly curious to see your progress! For some reason my best growths were with a top layer, so maybe a top layer and a liner is the way to go.

Btw your monotub has no holes right? You probably used bod's unmodified tub tek. But how does your sub gets enough FAE now. With the tote pressing down on the lid?


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: Koala]
    #26776977 - 06/23/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I have just had it open now for many hours. I will mist it and let it breathe until morning I think. Fae is a problem with the tote down, so can't have that for too long. I will just have to figure it out with this thing.


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OfflineMickeyLewis
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26777016 - 06/23/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This is all amazing stuff. I'm really glad I stumbled upon this thread. Great work all of you.


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OfflineKoala
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Re: Flipping substrate because of bottom and side pins TEST [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26778319 - 06/24/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I presume that you folded the latches of the lid to the inside, so you get at least a little slit between the tote and lid.

Really curious what your growth will do the coming days..


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