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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26737849 - 06/11/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Yes, there are bad cops, you make a point.  But they still need to be around..  The magic bullet is to not have bad cops.

Should I find a video of all the good police interactions to compare to your one bad video so we can get some balance?  See what I’m suggesting here?

Pro tip: Use logic, not emotion..:themoreyouknow:




That's wonderful, but instead of having a good vs bad cop debate, let's decide what are appropriate policing practices, the laws they enforce and the potential quotas that are not officially mandated.

I too often hear police chiefs refer to proactive policing, what the fuck is that exactly?  It's looking for trouble when there isn't any and then causing it in most cases.

BTW, what is a "good police interactions"?  Arresting a person for actually committing a crime? Well, that's called doing their job that WE pay them for in the first place. We don't pay them to harass innocent citizens and ultimately arresting them for some BS charge.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: qman]
    #26737860 - 06/11/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

A good police interaction is where they to their job well.  Like a good sandwich maker, when they make a good sandwich.

For clarity I’m not suggesting cops are angels, but I am saying they are necessary.  We need police, there’s just no way around it.  People are crazy.  When they’re gone, you’ll wish there were a few still around.


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26737875 - 06/11/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

@Socrateshroom, i dont have the answers man, but i do have suggestions. unfortunately my suggestions are pacifist in nature and are considered radical in their own way. 

as you said, "guns exist". well, they dont have to on a global scale. people work in factories that build tanks and bombs. they dont need to do that. but then others will argue, well its a job! and what are they to do if they dont work in the bomb factory?

i respect you and your viewpoints. i think youre right, listening to each others viewpoints is the best path to understanding/reaching a mutual agreement.

as far as punishments for the "evil doers".. well i dont think punishment is the answer. it certainly hasnt helped thus far, has it? if we talk about reform then we need rehabilitation too. people need a safe space. they need love. jamming people into overpopulated prisons is not helping people cope with mistakes theyve made.

you being picked on for being white in a black neighborhood is not fun, but kids are going to make the most mistakes. its part of growing up. maybe those kids that bullied you blossomed into respectable adults. maybe some didnt.

there are no simple solutions. but one thing that i know to be true is admitting you dont know if you have the right answer is a good start to reformation.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26737881 - 06/11/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
A good police interaction is where they to their job well.  Like a good sandwich maker, when they make a good sandwich.

For clarity I’m not suggesting cops are angels, but I am saying they are necessary.  We need police, there’s just no way around it.  People are crazy.  When they’re gone, you’ll wish there were a few still around.




It's like any other profession, you go after the low hanging fruit and play it safe. It's no mystery that cops avoid the real dangerous areas/people and focus on the people much less likely to harm them.

It's not to say a call won't force them into a dangerous situation, but it's only human nature to interact with relative safety.

Why do you think all the police unions opposed legal marijuana?  Because it's called the gravy train. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/22/four-in-ten-u-s-drug-arrests-in-2018-were-for-marijuana-offenses-mostly-possession/

Yes, we need a police force, that's just stating the obvious. But we don't need what we have today, which is a constant violation of our rights and the enforcement of stupid drug laws.


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86] * 2
    #26737889 - 06/11/20 08:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
We need police, there’s just no way around it.  People are crazy.  When they’re gone, you’ll wish there were a few still around.




no one is saying get rid of police. we are advocating for humane responses to non-violent 911 calls and traffic stops instead of sending in the militarized, pro-intimidation quasi-soldiers.

but if the police do disappear you best believe my ass will be celebrating.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: qman]
    #26737893 - 06/11/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Agreed.  Prisons are a shit show too, I don’t know how people aren’t in an uproar about that.

The truth of the matter is.... pick an issue, any issue.  Start climbing the ladder and it all goes directly to government.  I rarely meet someone who has a full grasp on just how sold out and corrupt all that shit is.  It’s the most amazing bait and switch ever..

So a lot of this is like trying fix that dam that’s leaking and every time you plug a hole with your finger, and new leak happens.

To be frank, we’re all pretty fucked on the grand scheme of things.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26737908 - 06/11/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Should we also consider not allowing politicians to earn any income/wealth whatsoever outside of their official duty?


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26737915 - 06/11/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The founding fathers had jobs outside of their political ambitions.  I heard this put into perspective the other day.  They didn’t do the political thing as a “job”...  it changed the whole dynamic of what they were doing.

I’m kinda simplifying it but do you get what I’m saying?


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26737916 - 06/11/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

i know many will disagree but i dont think politicians should be paid at all, period. if you want to be a leader, then being a leader is your moral reward. if you want to buy groceries then you should get a job like the rest of us.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26737918 - 06/11/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
The founding fathers had jobs outside of their political ambitions.  I heard this put into perspective the other day.  They didn’t do the political thing as a “job”...  it changed the whole dynamic of what they were doing.

I’m kinda simplifying it but do you get what I’m saying?




totally. it was their moral duty to govern with good intentions.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine]
    #26737922 - 06/11/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I know what your saying Nita.  Yea.

Intent? Better to govern wisely than with good intentions only.  I hate when it devolves into a game of optics or identity politics.


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InvisibleShroomerInTheRye
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Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira Flag
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #26737923 - 06/11/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The problem is that running the country/state/city is a full time job, so they wouldn't have time for a second job.


--------------------
:nyan: <-- Clicky Clicky


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] * 2
    #26737930 - 06/11/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You could certainly cut out the “contributions”.  I think in England they can only spend a set amount on their campaigns...  levels the playing field and the number of voices whispering in their ears.

Apparently around the world, our political system is seen as pretty fucked up..:shrug:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
Female


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Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine] * 2
    #26737933 - 06/11/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

split_by_nine said:
i know many will disagree but i dont think politicians should be paid at all, period. if you want to be a leader, then being a leader is your moral reward. if you want to buy groceries then you should get a job like the rest of us.




Agree with the sentiment
but disagree with the likely outcome in modern society

this would result in people like landlords, people who collect off stocks, people with inherited wealth
to more or less exclusively run the political establishment

not sure where the balance is
just recognize this has a more prohibitive effect on what level of citizenry can rise into politics
but also recognize that politics as is already is run heavily by the rich

perhaps some sort of cap on the allowed wealth of public servants and strict reporting and accountability monitoring
but this, in turn, would still fail to limit back room deals
so ultimately do not know


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InvisibleShroomerInTheRye
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Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira Flag
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: Amanita86] * 4
    #26737935 - 06/11/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I have been screaming for 20 years now to get the corporations out of Congress, but it's all like, "Shroomer, shut the fuck up.  That's crazy.  Corporations don't buy Congress people.  That's insane." and now it's all like "BOOM BITCH! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT CORPOCRACY WE GOT MOTHAFUKKA?!  THAT CORPORATE WELFARE WORKING OUT FOR YOU?!"
:crankey: :micdrop:


--------------------
:nyan: <-- Clicky Clicky


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] * 2
    #26737942 - 06/11/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomerInTheRye said:
The problem is that running the country/state/city is a full time job, so they wouldn't have time for a second job.




makes sense. we have enough tax money to give them a modest welfare check. they dont need $100k+ salaries.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


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InvisibleShroomerInTheRye
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Posts: 13,037
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Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine]
    #26737951 - 06/11/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I agree 1,000% with that.


--------------------
:nyan: <-- Clicky Clicky


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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,584
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #26737970 - 06/11/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

split_by_nine said:
i know many will disagree but i dont think politicians should be paid at all, period. if you want to be a leader, then being a leader is your moral reward. if you want to buy groceries then you should get a job like the rest of us.



Strong disagree. This is how you incentivise only the rich to fill positions of power and economically prohibit the lower class from filling the roles. Then the rich fill all the positions of power and work together to create barriers of entry for lower classes. Eventually the richest and most powerful dude on the block will have the highest seat in the land, and will have policies at odds with other rich people in power. And then you get civil war because the richest guy has support because he is willfully shoring up support in defiance of everyone against him. Give the lower classes a few bones and a plot of land and suddenly you have a thousand year of dynasties and feudal monarchies all over again.

But yes, removing money from the actual election process and legislative process would be helpful.


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #26737983 - 06/11/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

the rich are and have been filling positions of power since America's inception and have steadily created barriers of entry for lower classes.


--------------------
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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,584
Re: defund the police. or Decommission them. [Re: split_by_nine]
    #26738017 - 06/11/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Arguably, the barriers to entry are less defined than they were just a century ago, and the people filling them are less rich as well a lot of the time. Ability to participate has also increased across multiple demographics and even personalities. Systems of government worldwide still have corruption and issues, and money is perhaps a much bigger influence in politics today than at any time in the past. But the ability to participate has never really been as open. Money is used instead to influence things indirectly, and giving policy makers and executive authorities smaller paychecks wouldn't necessarily change that relationship.



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