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superreggie
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How can you stand more?
#26735763 - 06/10/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So how do you not lose it, and just fall to your knees begging for mercy? How do you stand more? I feel it's almost the medicine seeing if you can handle it to see if you're ready for the next level. Apart from just 'trust the medicine', 'breathe', and 'relax, bro', is there anything else you suggest? I know you definitely have to let it happen. As soon as you try to escape the intensity you're doomed...
Both times I've had challenging trips, it's because it's just basically too intense for me. Once, it was an Ayahuasca experience, where I realized, I'm too easily amazed. I'm pretty sensitive about everything, sound, visual, experience. But I have a problem where I have to stop everything and label it with language (isn't that AMAZING?). I realized it during the experience, that the labelling just puts a language filter on it all, and I wasn't just letting it be the full experience. Then I'd realize this, the filter would be off, and I'd just get blasted again by the intensity. Loop would then repeat endlessly, and I'd hang on for dear life...
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CountHTML
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You hang on until there’s no longer anyone left to hang on, or anything left to hang onto. The point of it is to get obliterated. At least, for those who dose at such levels. It’s like a miracle when you come back.
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MrStinkyShrooman
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: CountHTML]
#26735901 - 06/11/20 01:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's recurring message i get from mushroom gods: stop labeling, stop conceptualization of everything. It doesn't help. Go with flow. Be active. Think less. True intelligence and art hide in the incomprehensible.
I also can relate to your observation - some realizations about perception during the trip instantly blast you into hyperintensity experience.
-------------------- The whole process of nature is an integrated process of immense complexity, and it’s really impossible to tell whether anything that happens in it is good or bad — because you never know what will be the consequence of the misfortune; or, you never know what will be the consequences of good fortune. -- Alan Watts --
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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I don't lose it just by letting go. I let it all go... until there is just a point of perception. All worries and thoughts are instantly dismissed as inconsequential. All states are temporary, all feelings and thoughts are illusions. Fears, hopes and dreams are all just illusions also.
The more you practise the easier it is to let go. The easier it is to just be. You don't necessarily have to take high doses to get there. I bet there are even some people who can do it while sober.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Quote:
superreggie said: So how do you not lose it, and just fall to your knees begging for mercy? How do you stand more? I feel it's almost the medicine seeing if you can handle it to see if you're ready for the next level. Apart from just 'trust the medicine', 'breathe', and 'relax, bro', is there anything else you suggest? I know you definitely have to let it happen. As soon as you try to escape the intensity you're doomed...
Both times I've had challenging trips, it's because it's just basically too intense for me. Once, it was an Ayahuasca experience, where I realized, I'm too easily amazed. I'm pretty sensitive about everything, sound, visual, experience. But I have a problem where I have to stop everything and label it with language (isn't that AMAZING?). I realized it during the experience, that the labelling just puts a language filter on it all, and I wasn't just letting it be the full experience. Then I'd realize this, the filter would be off, and I'd just get blasted again by the intensity. Loop would then repeat endlessly, and I'd hang on for dear life...
you experience this enhanced/resonant state to observe - to be impressed by what can be experienced - and to be transformed.
if all you get is "being overcome with discomfort" then take a lower dose, it is not a challenge as you presume, there is no challenge that even could be fair, each of us has different constitution, abilities, attitudes, strengths, weaknesses etc.
Also each of us has different mental content and historical impressions, and this combines with your trip conditions and the dose to produce unique experiences (i.e. not what others experience at all - specifically your own)
so dose more lightly and pay attention without expectations of your self. make space for what you find and don't panic.
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superreggie
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Great answers everyone, thanks. Redgreenvines, I should have been more clear, I didn't mean to say 'both times I have tripped', it was 'both times I have had challenging trips'. I have had numerous very very intense deep experiences, but they were generally euphoric. I had two very challenging trips which seemed on the precipice of serious trauma. I was able to pull through, and the first one in particular was very rewarding afterwards.
But in the first one in particular, it was as though I was just barely able to survive, and doing everything I could to let go. It wouldn't call it discomfort, it was just intensity beyond what I could handle, to the point of being fearful , it was the fear of serious trauma, and I carry that fear now.
And so, in fact, the problem is that I now am hesitant to do the larger doses. Northerner, you say the more you practice the easier it is to let go. Generally, you get better at taking the intensity with experience? I haven't found that myself, it seems I'm less able to for some reason... maybe it's new respect.
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Antigov



Registered: 03/17/19
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Loc: Deep within the BibleBelt
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I have found it takes a little practice to navigate the high dose. A lot of people set themselves up for really bad experiences when you take 8 grams and see what happens. Before you take your trip, practice meditation along with deep breathing. Some say 4-7-8. 4 seconds of breathing, hold you breath for 7 seconds and exhale for 8 seconds. Eventually you won’t need to count because it will feel natural to breath this way. Meditation and controlled breathing really helps on a harsh come up.
At high doses you will experience ego death. This will cause you to feel extreme panic because the ego is telling the brain that death is imminent. This will be easier said then done, but you have to train the mind to let go and surrender. Another thing you can do is have a sober tripsitter that can recognize you’re heading into a bad place and help you through it. I hope my suggestions can help.
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SynKyd
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: Antigov]
#26736797 - 06/11/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Me and my girl have a saying........
Nobody’s dying, you’re just tripping, it’s gonna be fine
Always cracks us up when things get intense and reminds us that we have been through these situations before, and everything worked out!
It has helped others too, feel free to borrow that!
-------------------- New inclusive poop emojis from Apple!
   
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: SynKyd]
#26736816 - 06/11/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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everyone is on a different life path, and the susceptibility to drugs will vary as you age.
the clock may not return you to where you were at in dosing in previous years.
generally 24 years of age is the peak or rollover for males, and capacity diminishes slowly from then in all body related issues.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: superreggie] 1
#26736888 - 06/11/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
superreggie said: But in the first one in particular, it was as though I was just barely able to survive, and doing everything I could to let go. It wouldn't call it discomfort, it was just intensity beyond what I could handle, to the point of being fearful , it was the fear of serious trauma, and I carry that fear now.
Could be off target here but the key IME is in "what I could handle". You don't "handle" these things, you let it all go, including the labeling, including the illusion of control (it is only ever that), you even let go of the letting go. This is all straight-forward Buddhism, and yes, you really can do that while sober as well, i.e. reach beyond the limitations that discursive consciousness imposes on underlying reality.
Unfortunately it's almost impossible to explain how that works in a way that makes sense while caught within the limitations.
Somehow it's similar to this: instead of begging for mercy because you can't take any more, you shift directly to welcoming the dissolution. Because if frees you from the residual conception that there's somebody in charge who is being overwhelmed by this torrent of unfiltered perception. There isn't, there never was. But one can never believe that until it's seen to never have been true.
Sorry, this probably isn't very helpful. It's why I rarely even try to discuss it in detail, even in person, and much less online.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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LosTresOjos
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It's fun to step into the unknown. We must remember that the unknown has no qualities of good or bad. It's there to be discovered.
This is a hard question. It dependent upon you. I think the psychedelic experience is really good at putting you in a state of mind very close to that of a flight or fight response. Due to bizarre nature of it. Take that opportunity to overcome your fears. You are in a safe environment (should be) and if you overcome that initial fear then you can stand more. It gets easier with practice. It's never a walk in the park as you are traveling through the unknown but you become more confident.
Edit: what I mean is confidence in letting go. Allowing life to go on as it does with no judgement.
Edited by LosTresOjos (06/11/20 01:55 PM)
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LosTresOjos
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26736913 - 06/11/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you did a good job of explaining. I can understand but I might have more experienced than the op. It's a very tricky thing to nail down if you haven't had the experience.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
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Quote:
superreggie said: And so, in fact, the problem is that I now am hesitant to do the larger doses. Northerner, you say the more you practice the easier it is to let go. Generally, you get better at taking the intensity with experience? I haven't found that myself, it seems I'm less able to for some reason... maybe it's new respect.
That's normal to be put off. I've had trips that have put me off for years. Where I was sure I had died and then had to deal with the reality of being alive again. The stuff can mess with your head hey. Afterwards once you've been to places like that the fear can take some time to fade. But then the respect kicks in. Whats the worst that can happen after all? Nothing really. It's all an illusion.
Like CountHTML talked about it's the struggle to actually release the ego that hurts, not the state afterwards itself. That release technique of mindfulness is a thing. Even sober you can try it. Lay in the dark and let your thoughts stop, see a point of white light. Don't fight your thoughts, they are to be observed not confronted. See the point of light turn into a sphere, push all colour back from the sphere while letting go of all thought. Then project yourself at the sphere. Instant quiet. It's just one technique of many. But it's about mind control. Refusing to interrogate, allowing to pass, choosing to focus, projecting yourself.
And Synkyd mentioned another one I have also used. My version is "no one has ever died from this, you're just tripping".
I'm getting older now too. I've been tripping for decades on and off. The waters do get easier to navigate. Though I have been sunk a few times and had to step back, lest I drive myself insane. It's important to remember that we have our whole lives to trip, no need to jam it in as quick as possible. It's fine to take extended breaks and integrate. Ponder and come back renewed and stronger.
So many great relatable responses in this thread.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Quote:
superreggie said: So how do you not lose it, and just fall to your knees begging for mercy?
Sometimes maybe you do. That's alright if it happens, especially if that's all it results in. That can be a good experience actually under some circumstances. It can teach you to value life.
Quote:
How do you stand more?
You get used to it and you develop mental techniques to handle it and to deal with it. Discomfort and unpleasant or unwanted sensations or experiences are often part of the experience at high enough doses.
I recommend trying breathing techniques, breathing slowly, deeply, focusing on that. Also distracting yourself with video games or movies. Some people recommend a beer or two (not more than that), and I've tried that and it seems to work decently (as long as you can control your intake of alcohol during the experience).
At the end of the day though, some discomfort is just part of the thing if you dose high enough. I think the only way you really learn to handle it is by doing it repeatedly and trying different things and learning to handle it. Eventually maybe you learn that you're not going to die and the unpleasantness can be managed.
Even when you can't handle it, you can still handle it. Any way you handle it that doesn't end with you getting arrested or hospitalized or hurt is fine and good. If you have to drop to your knees and beg for mercy, that's a fine way to handle things. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else, and it's very safe and can be comforting.
If things get too much for me, I tend to lay in bed, or play a video game, or go to the bathroom and chill out.
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MentalPariah
Pariah of my mind


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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: nooneman]
#26737289 - 06/11/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some of us are also just built for it. I cant smoke weed but can eat 8g of cubensis and function normally. I will also say that one of the worst trips of my life was also the most eye opening and therapeutic thing I've ever gone through. If you cant handle a high dose then dont take high doses, just take enough to enjoy the journey because that's what it's really about.
-------------------- Whoever appeals to the law against his Fellow man is either a fool or a coward Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both For a wounded man shall say to his assailant If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven Such is the rule of honor
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Psion
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the first time i did shrooms, it was a heroic dose. it felt like i was sinking into a cool, deep river of energy after i had been wandering in a desert, slowly dying of thirst for decades.
i simply sank deeper in bliss and let it carry me in its current.
i feel it's a lot like that - you can try and fight it, but it's too powerful a current to fight. there's simply no point, you'll waste your energy trying, and it will result in panic and exhaustion, to no gain. but if you relax and let the current carry you as it will, you can nudge it, guide it in the direction you want to go as well. it will still take you in a certain direction, but you can work with it to harness its power for good, such as breaking addictions and bad habits, gaining new insights, or assisting in creativity.
but to do that, you gotta work with it in harmony. you cannot fight the river - only guide it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: Psion]
#26738647 - 06/12/20 04:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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usually that happens to me on half tab
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Don't assume that those dispensing such advice online (let go, surrender) are themselves always able to accept it. Even an experienced user, especially if he starts to believe too much in his own propaganda/online persona will from time to time experience a trip in which for whatever reason, he just isn't able to surrender.
I've had trips in which I realized I had to let go of trying so desperately to let go! And that by using verbal mantras such as 'let go' or 'surrender' I was actually just trying to bypass the hard work! This quickly alerted me (horrifyingly) that in fact my very attempt to 'let go' had somehow devolved back into the original attempt to escape and evade the experience. Back to square one lol! It's eery how it creeps back up upon a person, once he believes he has mastered it!
When things get difficult try to remember you are not alone! All of us have experienced the same kind of experiences. I think during every Anahuasca trip of any significance I ever had, at some point (coming up) I promised myself it would be my last! The truth is it is very scary!
I have never known verbal advice/comfort I got from others (online or in person) to have been of any help in aborting a bad trip once it began.
It has to be a genuine surrender. Not just something you are doing/saying in the hope it will all stop!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (06/12/20 07:09 AM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: wolf8312]
#26738894 - 06/12/20 07:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wise words, wolf. Almost 35 years experience and I still get caught out as often as not!
Edit: and they still scare the sh1t out of me 
DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

Edited by DJ Ed (06/12/20 07:32 AM)
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superreggie
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Re: How can you stand more? [Re: wolf8312]
#26739436 - 06/12/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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wolf8312 That is a really great comment, and this is turning out to be a great thread. Yes, this exactly happened to me. It's certainly not about 'aborting' a trip. I guess it's all about how to take it, how to let allow that intensity to just happen. I was extremely deep in an ayahuasca experience that was just relentless, like facing a psychic flamethrower, and as it's happening, I'm sweating and starting to panic, and similarly, the more I'm trying to let go, the more I realize the 'trying' to let go is not letting go... I did have a conversation with myself, something along the lines of "hey ego, it's going to be OK. Just trust. Step aside and allow it to happen. Stop being amazed, stop everything and just trust".... I realized that this was, ultimately just a more... survivable way of hanging on, but it's all that I had at the time.
Ultimately, only thing to do is just swallow the fear and get back on the horse...
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