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Forrester
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The script has been written / time is an illusion
#26734506 - 06/10/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm sure many of us have come across these concepts before, but I haven't heard anyone discuss it in a while.
This is an excerpt from a text I like to read that I found interesting...
Quote:
The time is set already. It appears to be quite arbitrary. Yet there is no step along the road that anyone takes but by chance. It has already been taken by him, although he has not yet embarked on it. For time but seems to go in one direction. We but undertake a journey that is over. Yet it seems to have a future still unknown to us.
Time is a trick, a sleight of hand, a vast illusion in which figures come and go as if by magic. Yet there is a plan behind appearances that does not change. The script is written. When experience will come to end your doubting has been set. For we but see the journey from the point at which it ended, looking back on it, imagining we make it once again; reviewing mentally what has gone by.
Anyway, what do you think of the idea that your whole life has already been lived, that all lives have already been lived and our experience here is kinda like a simulation, the chance to live out one of those lives? Think it's possible?
What about your past - ever get the feeling you didn't really make a lot of the decisions you thought you made? That it was kinda already set and you were just going through the motions, having the experience?
Anyway I find these concepts interesting and thought it might be fun to discuss. The whole idea that time doesn't even really exist would sure help to remind how trivial and unimportant some of the things in our daily lives are, and assist in learning what is important...
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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benjarmin
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26734527 - 06/10/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Definitely thought about this before. However, I've had to come to terms with the realisation that this kind of thinking won't get me anywhere in life
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InfraredRick
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: benjarmin]
#26734575 - 06/10/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Everything is.
-------------------- Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]
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Yellow Pants



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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: InfraredRick]
#26734724 - 06/10/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It seems crazy to believe or entertain the reality that this life has already been lived. However time/space are a relative illusion. This timeline has been determined and is currently being determined. But I see no good reason to assume with confidence that alternate timelines aren’t happening on their own relative illusion. We already know through intelligence that there was a “past” where people existed here and now co-creating the world to some extent. I think it might be fair to say that this moment is just as much an illusion as time and space assuming you would concede that. The world/universe etc. is far more malleable than I think we like to tell ourselves.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26735637 - 06/10/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well.. I think that we are permanently stuck in a moment called now.
But it is in this moment that we experience.. change and motion..
But one of the other things that we do as humans is project into the future..
It is you in case creating your own story your own illusion..
M
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Yellow Pants



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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26735699 - 06/10/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that is accurate. “Use your illusion” so to speak.
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Inthepit
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26736120 - 06/11/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Perhaps I come from a different seekers journey. But along the way I picked up that the past and the future are only thoughts. Not to negate what seems to be all around us, but just this is it, everything else is thoughts about it.
I don't see any going back or forward, nor any plan. As Alan Watts said, it's music and we dance...
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pineninja
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: benjarmin]
#26736132 - 06/11/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
benjarmin said: Definitely thought about this before. However, I've had to come to terms with the realisation that this kind of thinking won't get me anywhere in life 
Is there somewhere to go?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26736174 - 06/11/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: But I see no good reason to assume with confidence that alternate timelines aren’t happening on their own relative illusion.
Absolutely. I don't think we should take this in a deterministic sense. Just because the script has been written, doesn't mean 100 million other possible scripts haven't been written as well. Dimensions of reality...
Quote:
Inthepit said: Perhaps I come from a different seekers journey. But along the way I picked up that the past and the future are only thoughts. Not to negate what seems to be all around us, but just this is it, everything else is thoughts about it.
Nicely worded. Do you think it is worthwhile to attempt to let go of the thoughts that are the past and future, or is there benefit to them?
Quote:
BrendanFlock said: Well.. I think that we are permanently stuck in a moment called now.
But it is in this moment that we experience.. change and motion..
But one of the other things that we do as humans is project into the future..
It is you in case creating your own story your own illusion..
The eternal now. So you think there is other than that? That there is a future? Trying to understand what you mean exactly by project into the future.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26736236 - 06/11/20 08:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Last part you quoted: I think he is referring to how we can only remember the past & project into the future from the present moment.
As to another thing you quoted I would say to it,
If you take a birds eye view of the whole entire universe - you would see everything transforming all at once . materializing - subsisting for a moment - and dematerializing , over and over and over - and all of the phenomena witnessed from that state would be & can only occur in the timeless moment of the present. All unfolding in the now - like a net of transforming magical illusion.
Here are 2 quotes that I think illustrates my point visually.
* Disciples, When I humbly observe the true nature of things, all are the marvelous manifestations of the Tathagata’s truth. Atom by atom, instant by instant, all are none other than his mysterious radiance.
- Torei Zhenji’s Bodhisattva Vow
** Homage to Vajrasattva! In the space where all experience remains in potential, emerges a grand display of nondual awareness and illusion, the original spontaneity of our sovereign nature of mind: indivisible from that, unmoving, to that we bow down.
- Longenchpa’s Finding Comfort & Ease In Enchantment (illusion)
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Inthepit
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26736254 - 06/11/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you think it is worthwhile to attempt to let go of the thoughts that are the past and future, or is there benefit to them?
There's so much on this subject of our thoughts. One is that "waking up " is seeing (not thinking) that we are not our thoughts. That the "mind" is not us, but it is like an organ that just keeps pumping out thoughts. They can be helpful, not an enemy. They can be BS. The "mind" gives the illusion of an ego and is dead set on keeping it that way. Letting go of thoughts is basic in most meditation practices. Look at something, how is it really there and how much is added by thought? Emotions, memories, beliefs, etc.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Inthepit]
#26736263 - 06/11/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The mind of the past is ungraspable; the mind of the future is ungraspable; the mind of the present is ungraspable.
- Diamond Sutra
That the self advances and confirms the ten thousand things is called delusion; That the ten thousand things advance and confirm the self is called enlightenment.
- Zen Master Dogen Zenji, 1200 - 1253 Moon in a Dewdrop
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Inthepit
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26736271 - 06/11/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is fun, I dig yer Ox herding avatar...
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Inthepit]
#26736278 - 06/11/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I see you have the 3 marks of existence listed below your name, I dig it.
Btw -. to 🇵🇷
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (06/11/20 09:24 AM)
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lostintimenspc
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26742818 - 06/13/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Humanity is living in a paradise of the imagination with infinite levels and is simply bound to suffering by the trauma of history.
If a species of deer became intelligent and grew hands, they'd have the same thing to deal with.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26743421 - 06/14/20 05:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: If you take a birds eye view of the whole entire universe - you would see everything transforming all at once . materializing - subsisting for a moment - and dematerializing , over and over and over - and all of the phenomena witnessed from that state would be & can only occur in the timeless moment of the present. All unfolding in the now - like a net of transforming magical illusion.
I like that analogy, reminds me of the analogy of the river in Hesses' Siddartha, being the same, at any point you look at it, still a river, yet constantly flowing and changing in form (although I cannot seem to find the direct quote I was thinking of, which is much better)
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Last part you quoted: I think he is referring to how we can only remember the past & project into the future from the present moment.
Yet this would imply that there is in fact a past and a future, which he is quite literal in staring there is not (not within the quote). The idea is described even better in the thread Tmethyl posted yesterday actually
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26743429 - 06/14/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I see it as the past being a memory of the present. Which can only be remembered in the present. Memory only works that way. Our entire lives are up till now are just like last nights dream, even the present moment itself is the minds delusion.
In so far as being true experientially- I don’t have much issue with this view.
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26743436 - 06/14/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I see it as the past being a memory of the present. Which can only be remembered in the present. Memory only works that way.
Yes, I would agree. But the future can be remembered too, no?
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26743439 - 06/14/20 06:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don’t subscribe to the concept of future in the way it is classically thought. It’s like multiplying the equation by 1. It’s effete.
No such thing. It’s using the imagination in the present moment to try and guess which way the front of the river is going to go and what it’s going to look at - while being part of the front of that very river. Read the part in my signature about the past present and future.
Sure I use the concept of the future as a useful tool and as a means to an end like a carrot and stick routine, it’s conventional.
An illusion with real practical power when used appropriately.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26743455 - 06/14/20 06:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I don’t subscribe to the concept of future in the way it is classically thought.
On that we certainly agree 
I think I see it a bit differently though. In your river analogy you mention trying to guess.
Take trying (or thinking at all) out of that.
Without thinking, I often find myself setting down a pot, minutes before the water starts to drip through the ceiling at that very spot.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26743481 - 06/14/20 06:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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We are experiencing the same reality but via our individual vessels, which are in themselves remarkably similar too.
You have memory of the leak in the roof don’t you? From previous experiences of it leaking, I’d imagine. From that combined with various sensory cues happening throughout the present I would say you’ve developed an intuition for when to set the bucket in the right spot. All of which combine to create a sort of prescience.
I’ve been up all night, not voluntarily, and should not be opening my mouth/writing right now!
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Asante
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26743485 - 06/14/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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My Spirit Guide says me time and time again: "You experience the universe as if its happening, but for me, everything happens at the same time, and you can say that everything his already happened. The beginning is as near to me as the end. I can remember it or relive it, but bottom line is, it is complete."
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Asante]
#26743497 - 06/14/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: You have memory of the leak in the roof don’t you? From previous experiences of it leaking, I’d imagine. From that combined with various sensory cues happening throughout the present I would say you’ve developed an intuition for when to set the bucket in the right spot. All of which combine to create a sort of prescience.
I think you understand, but am not sure, that I did not mean a literal leak in the roof 
Because you said intuition, and yes that is it. But it's not based on previous experience of a roof leaking (a learned behaviour), it's pure intuition.
There is a real difference between intuition and learned behaviour. I do this, I don't know then why, and I see later why I did.
Quote:
Asante said: My Spirit Guide says me time and time again: "You experience the universe as if its happening, but for me, everything happens at the same time, and you can say that everything his already happened. The beginning is as near to me as the end. I can remember it or relive it, but bottom line is, it is complete."
I had a feeling you would be in agreement here
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Inthepit
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26743555 - 06/14/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I don’t subscribe to the concept of future in the way it is classically thought.
On that we certainly agree 
I think I see it a bit differently though. In your river analogy you mention trying to guess.
Take trying (or thinking at all) out of that.
Without thinking, I often find myself setting down a pot, minutes before the water starts to drip through the ceiling at that very spot.
You can make coffee without thinking too. It's an exercise.
A new day begins and of the dream called yesterday no trace.
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26743595 - 06/14/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inthepit said: You can make coffee without thinking too. It's an exercise.
Yes, you can. Again, this is a learned behaviour.
Quote:
Forrester said: There is a real difference between intuition and learned behaviour.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26744599 - 06/14/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is your opinion guys.. about remembering the future?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26745162 - 06/14/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have now slept & awoken refreshed and anew. So where were we?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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BrendanFlock
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26745247 - 06/14/20 11:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Your soul mate would do anything for you..
But as the golden rule says.. can we all be soulmates to each other?
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26745499 - 06/15/20 04:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I have now slept & awoken refreshed and anew. So where were we?
I have forgotten Tea?
I will try and think of other ways the world likes to show me time doesn't exist... it's a difficult one for sure.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26745508 - 06/15/20 04:14 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Attempting to trace the absolute beginning and/or end of an event or thing usually evokes a sense of timelessness for me.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26745519 - 06/15/20 04:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've heard Alan Watts use that one a few times, it's a good way to think of it
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester] 1
#26745522 - 06/15/20 04:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It’s also good for elucidating the Buddhist doctrine of interdependent origination. Or as some call it, oneness.
I like the term primordial as opposed to eternal - but it’s semantics really. Implying an always already - never not - presence. As opposed to reality or the universe having a true beginning. It Just always was / or - always already is - that’s what I mean by primordial...unbegun - unoriginated. It gets around and deals with the problem of The first causes dilemma too.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Asante
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: BrendanFlock]
#26745527 - 06/15/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: What is your opinion guys.. about remembering the future?
I've premembered lots of things.
Unfortunately, winning powerball numbers were not among them.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26745535 - 06/15/20 04:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: It’s also good for elucidating the Buddhist doctrine of interdependent origination. Or as some call it, oneness.
I like the term primordial as opposed to eternal - but it’s semantics really. Implying an always already - never not - presence. As opposed to reality or the universe having a true beginning. It Just always was / or - always already is - that’s what I mean by primordial...unbegun - unoriginated. It gets around and deals with the problem of The first causes dilemma too.
Good point. Maybe the difficulty in understanding the (time thing) stems from separating it from the (one-ness thing). All events and things are connected as one with no beginning or end, there is no time OR place.
I dunno, it's as if our minds take the simplest concept, the ONLY concept, and jumble it all up so horribly we can't understand it at all.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26745546 - 06/15/20 04:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The mind allows us to illusively slice up infinity into bit sized finite pieces - aka quantify - for the sake of operating to survive and live the way we do in the phenomenological world. It’s highly useful on one hand in a conventional sense, but on the other it can spoil the mind, and it is the spoiled mind which mistakes unity for duality, spawning the universal delusion (ignorance)- and every other delusion there is springs forth from the universal delusion. The remedy for this Universal delusion is Primal Non-Dual Awareness, our natural sovereign state. Clear, like stainless radiance.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (06/15/20 04:44 AM)
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26745579 - 06/15/20 04:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Primal Non-Dual Awareness, our natural sovereign state. Clear, like stainless radiance.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Inthepit
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26745608 - 06/15/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Tracing Back the Radiance by Robert Buswell fits in with that.
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Forrester
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Inthepit]
#26745672 - 06/15/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds interesting, adding to my list
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Rat-a-Tat
Psychedelic Student



Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 219
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Forrester]
#26958622 - 09/28/20 10:51 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: Sounds interesting, adding to my list
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I just ran across this article and wanted to see what you all thought. Starting in the mid 90's some physicists feel that evidence has been mounting that the ordinary formulation of physics, in a space-time with three space and one time dimensions (1T-physics), is insufficient to describe our world. Here is a really interesting article about a 2-time universe, in which the author talks about the possibility of a hidden dimension of time. String Theory and M Theory talk about multiple dimensions, but only a single dimension of time.
https://phys.org/news/2007-05-two-time-universe-physicist-explores-dimension.html
I am not a physicist at all, and I am not smart enough to comment on the intricacies of string or M theory. But it does seem very interesting how many reports there are of humans interacting with beings (in mushroom, DMT, ETC) trips that seem to be outside the notion of time. Just like we have hierarchies of intelligence in the animal world, could their also be hierarchies of sentient beings who are relegated to higher and lower realms of time manipulation or the experience of time in different ways? Much like, I would imagine that a lower mammal like a chipmunk probably does not "remember" a really good tasting acorn he had 12 years ago, but I still remember the smell, taste and look of a birthday cake my mom made me when I was 8. I am navigating, not through the dimension of time, but in a recollection of time, in a much different way than the chipmunk. Could higher dimensional being wade through the time signature of past, present and future as easily as we recall past memories or events?
I know for myself, I feel like I've experienced the feeling or the concept of infinity in my trips. I of course, would not be able to expound or put into writing how that felt or the ludicrousness, and almost maddening sensation that had. That being said - could time already been written, and at the same time be accessible in different ways to different beings in different dimensions? Very puzzling and interesting topic. Any thoughts?
Edited by Rat-a-Tat (09/28/20 10:55 AM)
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
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Re: The script has been written / time is an illusion [Re: Rat-a-Tat]
#26959074 - 09/28/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool article. This part stuck me:
Quote:
Bars’ math suggests that the familiar world of four dimensions — three of space, one of time — is merely a shadow of a richer six-dimensional reality. In this view the ordinary world is like a two-dimensional wall displaying shadows of the objects in a three-dimensional room.
Reminds me of Plato's cave, and some of the sayings in mystical texts. Not to mention what a lot of us have experienced in trips and other states.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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